Lutheran doctrine contradicts Lutheran doctrine (i.e. Exodus 12 – Passover Instituted)

Nic

Well-known member
Oh, I see...ancestry.com indicated I have a little Welsh blood in me, but mostly easter European and English. And 1% Jewish.
I've never done the ancestry type thing. I've heard via commercials they do genetic testing / tracing, if I've said that right?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I've never done the ancestry type thing. I've heard via commercials they do genetic testing / tracing, if I've said that right?
Yes. It put me into contact, with our permission, with a second cousin out in California, who has been studying genealogy in our family for 40 years or more, tracing my mother's side of the family. I put her in touch with my older sister, who is far more into thst than I am.
 
I've read through most of this thread. I've taken a few notes, and ultimately come to the decision that you are not here for Christian discussion. From post 1, your posts scream division, and division just for the sake of it. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I've been here at CARM since 2013 and if I'm not mistaken Bonnie has been here longer.

You seem to be in opposition to most mainline Christian orthodoxy. Yet, you say "Bringing Christian harmony to all the world". Based on this thread, I'm not seeing any evidence of promoting harmony.

Perhaps reconsider your approach.

God Speed.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I am "specifically" in opposition to pagan traditions within the one true faith, since the time of the early Church. "Specifically", in this thread, a teaching within the Christian Bible footnotes that bears "false" witness against Christians in doctrine and practice. Just because a footnote is in the Bible, doesn't make if Holy, nor does it make it Holy Spirit "inspired"!

Reference: (i.e. Matthew 15:7-9; John 4:24; Ephesians 5:11-13; Jude 1:3) (i.e. Biblical Judeo/Christian faith - Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21) (i.e. Matthew 26:2; Mark 8:31) The "doctrine of Christ" "on earth" matters! (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21)

What is one's beef against the Holy Scriptures? (i.e. John 4:24; Ephesians 5:11-13; 2 Timothy 3:16-17)
Do you believe that "antichrists" have planted themselves within the Christian seminaries and Christian universities "on earth" (i.e. a long time ago), and have introduced false doctrine into the one true faith since? (i.e. 1 John 2:18-21; Jude 1:4; Revelation 17:6)

Prove that I am in opposition to most mainline Christian orthodoxy. List one's evidence! I place 100% of my faith in Jesus as Messiah. (Matthew 16:16) I place 100% of my faith in the "doctrine of Christ". (i.e. 2 John 9) I know that my Redeemer lives. ("on earth" as in heaven) Truth matters! (i.e. "on earth" as in heaven)

Good riddance to all of the "unrepentant" workers of iniquity "on earth" that have taught "false" doctrine to believers in Jesus "on earth", within the one Christian faith "on earth". (Matthew 15:7-9) Jesus warns of offenses! (Matthew 18:6; Mark 9:42; Luke 17:1) Does the "doctrine of Christ" here offend you? Was Jesus too rough on those within "organized" "self-imposed" religion, not loving enough maybe?



In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Gloria Dei!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I am "specifically" in opposition to pagan traditions within the one true faith, since the time of the early Church. "Specifically", in this thread, a teaching within the Christian Bible footnotes that bears "false" witness against Christians in doctrine and practice. Just because a footnote is in the Bible, doesn't make if Holy, nor does it make it Holy Spirit "inspired"!

Reference: (i.e. Matthew 15:7-9; John 4:24; Ephesians 5:11-13; Jude 1:3) (i.e. Biblical Judeo/Christian faith - Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21) (i.e. Matthew 26:2; Mark 8:31) The "doctrine of Christ" "on earth" matters! (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21)

What is one's beef against the Holy Scriptures? (i.e. John 4:24; Ephesians 5:11-13; 2 Timothy 3:16-17)
Do you believe that "antichrists" have planted themselves within the Christian seminaries and Christian universities "on earth" (i.e. a long time ago), and have introduced false doctrine into the one true faith since? (i.e. 1 John 2:18-21; Jude 1:4; Revelation 17:6)

Prove that I am in opposition to most mainline Christian orthodoxy. List one's evidence! I place 100% of my faith in Jesus as Messiah. (Matthew 16:16) I place 100% of my faith in the "doctrine of Christ". (i.e. 2 John 9) I know that my Redeemer lives. ("on earth" as in heaven) Truth matters! (i.e. "on earth" as in heaven)

Good riddance to all of the "unrepentant" workers of iniquity "on earth" that have taught "false" doctrine to believers in Jesus "on earth", within the one Christian faith "on earth". (Matthew 15:7-9) Jesus warns of offenses! (Matthew 18:6; Mark 9:42; Luke 17:1) Does the "doctrine of Christ" here offend you? Was Jesus too rough on those within "organized" "self-imposed" religion, not loving enough maybe?



In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Gloria Dei!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
Prove that the time of day the Paschal lamb was killed before Jesus and His disciples ate it at the Passover Lamb has any significance whatsoever when it comes to our salvation.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Thanks, ,BD. I have been on CARM since late January 2000. So, waaaaaay longer than you. :)

But all of this timing when the paschal lamb was slaughtered is just a big hoopla over nothing. My synod has no official doctrine about the timing and anyway, who cares, anymore? The lamb in Jesus' day was slaughtered so He and His disciples could celebrate the Passover one last time, in which He instituted the Lord's Supper. Jesus didn't seem to care when it had been slaughtered at all, and nothing was said about that. His focus was on other things entirely. So should our focus be!
Whenever I see so much effort to diminish the beliefs of others, I'm concerned. Perhaps the beginning of a cult-like belief system.

The focus is Jesus, His life, death and resurrection. His grace extended to us sinners.

Alleluia, He is risen.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I am "specifically" in opposition to pagan traditions within the one true faith, since the time of the early Church. "Specifically", in this thread, a teaching within the Christian Bible footnotes that bears "false" witness against Christians in doctrine and practice. Just because a footnote is in the Bible, doesn't make if Holy, nor does it make it Holy Spirit "inspired"!

Reference: (i.e. Matthew 15:7-9; John 4:24; Ephesians 5:11-13; Jude 1:3) (i.e. Biblical Judeo/Christian faith - Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21) (i.e. Matthew 26:2; Mark 8:31) The "doctrine of Christ" "on earth" matters! (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21)

What is one's beef against the Holy Scriptures? (i.e. John 4:24; Ephesians 5:11-13; 2 Timothy 3:16-17)
Do you believe that "antichrists" have planted themselves within the Christian seminaries and Christian universities "on earth" (i.e. a long time ago), and have introduced false doctrine into the one true faith since? (i.e. 1 John 2:18-21; Jude 1:4; Revelation 17:6)

Prove that I am in opposition to most mainline Christian orthodoxy. List one's evidence! I place 100% of my faith in Jesus as Messiah. (Matthew 16:16) I place 100% of my faith in the "doctrine of Christ". (i.e. 2 John 9) I know that my Redeemer lives. ("on earth" as in heaven) Truth matters! (i.e. "on earth" as in heaven)

Good riddance to all of the "unrepentant" workers of iniquity "on earth" that have taught "false" doctrine to believers in Jesus "on earth", within the one Christian faith "on earth". (Matthew 15:7-9) Jesus warns of offenses! (Matthew 18:6; Mark 9:42; Luke 17:1) Does the "doctrine of Christ" here offend you? Was Jesus too rough on those within "organized" "self-imposed" religion, not loving enough maybe?



In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Gloria Dei!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world


All this over a footnote?

You can surely have your own opinion and no one has said anything different.

I'm not big on conspiracy theories. Sure, there are forces for evil in and out of the church. My desire is to honor the TRIUNE God of the universe. I belong to a church that is biblically sound, and active in reaching the lost. A good deal of my time is involved in my church's 'END ABORTION NOW' ministry. I'm busy doing the Lord's work and a footnote just doesn't matter. Footnotes are not the Biblical record.

I use an appropriate biblical hermeneutic when I study (which is daily). I have access to outstanding clergy.

You've not changed anyone's mind so far. There is big hurting world that need's Jesus. Why not focus your energies there.
 
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Nic

Well-known member
Yes. It put me into contact, with our permission, with a second cousin out in California, who has been studying genealogy in our family for 40 years or more, tracing my mother's side of the family. I put her in touch with my older sister, who is far more into thst than I am.
My German neighbor claim to fame was reconstructing a family tree of somewhere around 1700 individuals with the aid of ancestry <DOT> com.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
All this over a footnote?

You can surely have your own opinion and no one has said anything different.

I'm not big on conspiracy theories. Sure, there are forces for evil in and out of the church. My desire is to honor the TRIUNE God of the universe. I belong to a church that is biblically sound, and active in reaching the lost. A good deal of my time is involved in my church's 'END ABORTION NOW' ministry. I'm busy doing the Lord's work and a footnote just doesn't matter. Footnotes are not the Biblical record.

I use an appropriate biblical hermeneutic when I study (which is daily). I have access to outstanding clergy.

You've not changed anyone's mind so far. There is big hurting world that need's Jesus. Why not focus your energies there.
Very sound advice, BD. All this over a mere footnote is majoring on the minors....I mean, who cares when the Paschal lambs were slaughtered? It has zero bearing on our salvation. Jesus saves--not knowing when the correct time to slaughter the paschal lambs does NOT.
 
There is big hurting world that need's Jesus. Why not focus your energies there.

Yes, I agree. Why don't you focus your energies there. I am! (Matthew 26:2) (Mark 8:31) (John 4:22-24) (2 John 9)

Without the Son "on earth", one does not have a Savior "on earth". (i.e. abiding "outside" the "doctrine of Christ" "on earth")

Prove that I am in opposition to most mainline Christian orthodoxy. List one's evidence! Or is this just a conspiracy theory of yours? I am not interested in one's conspiracy theories!

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
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Whenever I see so much effort to diminish the beliefs of others, I'm concerned. Perhaps the beginning of a cult-like belief system.

The focus is Jesus, His life, death and resurrection. His grace extended to us sinners.

Alleluia, He is risen.

Is that one's purpose here on this thread, to spread unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo? I am very concerned.

Does one personally hold a grudge against the Reformers "on earth" for exposing false doctrine within the one true Christian faith "on earth"?

It is perfectly acceptable, and Christian in nature, to expose false doctrine within the one true Christian faith "on earth". (Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21) (Ephesians 5:11-13) (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21)

False teachers and false doctrine are not allowed within the one true faith. (i.e. Biblical Judeo/Christian faith) ("on earth" or in heaven)

The focus here is Jesus, and in His doctrine. Were you also concerned for Jesus, and His efforts to diminish false beliefs in Matthew 23. (i.e. “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!) I bet you were.

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
The focus is Jesus, His life, death and resurrection. His grace extended to us sinners.

Alleluia, He is risen.

James 4:6 New King James Version
6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

His grace is extended to repentant sinners (i.e. humble), and not to the proud. God resists the proud!

Jesus' life, death, and resurrection are all "according to the Scriptures". (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Don't forget that Jesus' life includes abiding in the "doctrine of Christ". Jesus never abides in the "doctrine of Caesar"! (i.e. Jesus is never a hypocrite!) (i.e. Reference: Key of David illustrations)

Jesus' life, death, and resurrection are not "according to a pagan god's version of history". (i.e. Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine - Reference: Constantine's epistle to the Church's West/East bishops shortly after the Council of Nicaea A.D. 325)

Alleluia! He is risen "according to the Scriptures"! (i.e. Reference: Key of David illustrations)

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Is that one's purpose here on this thread, to spread unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo? I am very concerned.

Does one personally hold a grudge against the Reformers "on earth" for exposing false doctrine within the one true Christian faith "on earth"?

It is perfectly acceptable, and Christian in nature, to expose false doctrine within the one true Christian faith "on earth". (Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21) (Ephesians 5:11-13) (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21)

False teachers and false doctrine are not allowed within the one true faith. (i.e. Biblical Judeo/Christian faith) ("on earth" or in heaven)

The focus here is Jesus, and in His doctrine. Were you also concerned for Jesus, and His efforts to diminish false beliefs in Matthew 23. (i.e. “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!) I bet you were.

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world

Here is another verse from the book of James. James 1:26.

If this is your way to improve harmony, it's not working.

All I can tell you is that it won't cost a thing to be gracious about a difference of opinion. God has provided us with what we need to know to live for his purposes instead of our own.

I wish you peace.✝️✝️
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Is that one's purpose here on this thread, to spread unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo? I am very concerned.

Does one personally hold a grudge against the Reformers "on earth" for exposing false doctrine within the one true Christian faith "on earth"?

It is perfectly acceptable, and Christian in nature, to expose false doctrine within the one true Christian faith "on earth". (Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21) (Ephesians 5:11-13) (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21)

False teachers and false doctrine are not allowed within the one true faith. (i.e. Biblical Judeo/Christian faith) ("on earth" or in heaven)

The focus here is Jesus, and in His doctrine. Were you also concerned for Jesus, and His efforts to diminish false beliefs in Matthew 23. (i.e. “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!) I bet you were.

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
No, but YOUR purpose on here seems to be to spread disharmony, by majoring on a very minor point of difference of opinion between men in two Lutheran synods--on a point that has no bearing in salvation. Note: it is OPINION. Neither WELS nor the LCMS has an official doctrine as to when the paschal lambs were slaughtered. It has zero bearing on our salvation. So, as I wrote earlier: WHO CARES? Not me.
 
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BJ Bear

Well-known member
Resurrection at time of Second Coming
The real Jesus was raised about two thousand years ago. Is it your claim that the real Jesus wasn't raised or that He didn't live and die before being raised? There is no interest in a fake Jesus.
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
The real Jesus was raised about two thousand years ago. Is it your claim that the real Jesus wasn't raised or that He didn't live and die before being raised? There is no interest in a fake Jesus.
The physical resurrection will not happen until Second Coming!
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
The physical resurrection will not happen until Second Coming!
Read the Bible if you have one. The real Jesus was raised about two thousand years ago. Is it your claim that the real Jesus wasn't raised or that He didn't live and die before being raised?

There is no interest in non answers just as there is no interest in a fake Jesus.
 
... Note: it is OPINION. Neither WELS nor the LCMS has an official doctrine as to when the paschal lambs were slaughtered. ...

In other words, neither WELS nor the LCMS Biblical scholars have a clue on how the Passover ordinances were observed by Moses and the congregation of Israel. (Reference: The original post - Exodus 12)

Did Jesus observe the Passover ordinances commanded in Exodus 12 "according to the Scriptures" (i.e. position (3) in original post)? Or did Jesus observe the Passover ordinances commanded in Exodus 12 "according to the WELS doctrine (i.e. position (2) in original post)? Or did Jesus observe the Passover ordinances commanded in Exodus 12 "according to the LCMS doctrine (i.e. position (1) in original post)? Which doctrine would have Dr. Martin Luther's stamp of approval? (i.e. Position (1), (2), or (3) in the original post?) One does realize that there is only one Holy Spirit "inspired" meaning of the Hebrew phrase, "beyn ha'arbayim"- between the two evenings. (i.e. only one "sound" doctrine "according to the Scriptures" - Exodus 12)

It is the doctrine of the Apostle Paul that one should not quench the Spirit, and that one should not despise prophecies. (i.e. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21); (Matthew 26:2; Mark 8:31)) Does the Apostle Paul's opinion matter? Of course it does, it is Holy Spirit "inspired". It is also the opinion of others (i.e. atheists), that one need not abide within the "doctrine of Christ" "on earth". In other words, who cares? Do their opinions matter? No! There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth! (i.e. Luke 13:28) So it is written, so it will be done!

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
In other words, neither WELS nor the LCMS Biblical scholars have a clue on how the Passover ordinances were observed by Moses and the congregation of Israel. (Reference: The original post - Exodus 12)
In other words Christ was risen two thousand years ago thereby inaugurating the resurrection of the living and the dead. If someone wants to fixate on his or her interpretation of what is now passed that is his privilege, but it is silly for that person to expect people to join in his fixation.
 
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