Lutheran theology

Do the Lutherans link keeping the commandments with entering into life?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 

Tertiumquid

New member
 

Bonnie

Active member
..as if we had not discussed this same set of Bible verses over and over again on this board and on the Mormon board, like about...10 times at least....:rolleyes:

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..as if we had not discussed this same set of Bible verses over and over again on this board and on the Mormon board, like about...10 times at least...
This isn't the Mormonism board--and you, nor anyone else--has discussed if the Lutherans link keeping the commandments with eternal life. I welcome any posts which did so--you can carry them over. All "ten times".

Whenever Biblical verses are posted--which defy Lutheran theology--I get the same answers--crickets. Tertiumquid's post is a good example--and yours isn't far behind--crickets.

So--bump for the board--do the Lutherans connect keeping the commandments--with His grace unto life?

John 14:15---King James Version

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 

Tertiumquid

New member
--I get the same answers--crickets. Tertiumquid's post is a good example--and yours isn't far behind--crickets.
This is a total mistruth. You've been interacted with and respond to countless times here by a number of CARM people over the years. Why should anyone interact with the same thing over and over and over again?
 

Bonnie

Active member
This is a total mistruth. You've been interacted with and respond to countless times here by a number of CARM people over the years. Why should anyone interact with the same thing over and over and over again?
This is most certainly true, what you wrote. Before God Almighty, it is the truth! In fact, here is one such instance where I dealt with these verses on here, from back in February:

  • You are trying to be like the Judaizers, who tried to be righteous by obedience to the Law. But what did Paul say about that:

    "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did NOT pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness WHICH IS BY FAITH. But Israel, pursuing a LAW of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did NOT pursue it BY FAITH, but, as it were, BY WORKS." (Rom. 9:30-31a).

    No one can be justified by obedience to the Law, because NO ONE CAN DO SO, EVER, because we are ALL sinners and everything we to please God would be tainted by sin. James says if we are guilty of breaking ONE of God's laws--we are guilty of ALL OF THEM (paraphrased).

    The rich young man was trying to be justified by obedience to the Law. So are Mormons--both their man-made laws and God's laws. BUT--Jesus told the young man that one thing was STILL lacking--he needed to give all he had to the poor (leaving his old life behind him) and follow Jesus--which would mean putting his faith and trust in Jesus, would it not? But what did the young man do? He refused to follow Jesus or have faith and trust in Him, and followed his old life with its earthly riches, instead.

    One thing was STILL lacking in the young man. So, did he REALLY keep God's laws perfectly? 100%? What did Jesus show the young man, by telling him to sell all he had, give it to the poor and follow Him, Jesus? What was the young man's reaction?

    And looky here what Paul wrote in Romans 1:4c-5:

    "...by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of Holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, THROUGH WHOM we have received GRACE and apostleship to bring about the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH among the Gentiles for His Name's sake."

    What does "obedience of faith" mean, dberrie?

    And how was Paul able to do what God required of him? Isn't doing what God requires obeying Him?

    "But by the GRACE OF GOD, I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the GRACE OF GOD WITH ME." (1 Cor. 15:10)

    Did Paul obey God by his own power? OR was it God's grace--GIVEN to him--that enabled him to labor for God in Christ Jesus?

    And:

    "...of which {taking the Gospel to the Gentiles} I was made a minister, according to the GIFT of God's grace, which was given to me according to the WORKING OF HIS POWER.. To me, the very least of the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ." (Eph. 3:7-8)

    so, did Paul obey God in order to GET God's grace? OR did he obey God BECAUSE he had God's grace--which God GAVE to Paul?

  • And do YOU obey ALL of God's commandments perfectly, 24/7, 365? Because remember what else James wrote:


    "For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend on one point, he is guilty of all.(KJV James 2:10)"
    SO--what say you, dberrie? How are YOU doing in the perfect keeping of God's commandments/laws department?

    There are only TWO ways to be justified and declared righteous in God's eyes, dberrie. The first is by keeping God's commandments perfectly all the time, never stumbling in even one point, for as long as one lives. That is what Jesus was telling the rich young ruler. But He demonstrated to him that he didn't even keep the first and most important commandment--loving God above all else. The young man loved his wealth more--he broke the first commandment and therefore, broke ALL of them.

    BUT--there is a SECOND way to be justified and declared righteous in God's eyes. Do YOU know that way, dberrie?


    Romans 4:4-5 English Standard Version (ESV)

    "4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,"


  • By our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross and did PERFECTLY are we declared "not guilty" and righteous in God's eyes--for Jesus' righteousness is then credited to us, by our faith in Him and His finished work on the cross.

    Which do you think is more sure, dberrie--depending upon your OWN IMperfect keeping of God's commandments--because you seem to think that is what Jesus wants us to do: keep God's commandments perfectly in order to be saved--OR depending upon Jesus' perfect keeping of the commandments in our stead and for our sake? Which is more sure? More dependable?




By the way, did you see my other thread on here, about that Martin Chemnitz quote? I had a link to it, but the link no longer works. I wish I had saved the quote, but I didn't. Silly me....would you have any idea where to find it? I think Nic or BJ had it on here on the boards last summer. I think I have Nic's email address, but not BJ's. Thanks .
 
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