Lutheran theology

BJ Bear

Well-known member
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how any of that relates to the Savior's connection of keeping the commandments to eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

IOW--even if one believes the young ruler was a liar--God isn't. It was Jesus who gave the testimony found above--not the young ruler.

Next--how does anyone mesh the above testimony with Lutheran theology?
Jesus demonstrated to the young ruler that he was a liar. That's why he went away in sorrow.

Read the section in Moses that begins Hear o Israel.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Did the guy walk away in joy or sorrow? Sorrow. Sorrow because he was a liar who by his speech made God the liar.

The artist formerly and perhaps once again will be known as bi bear.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how any of that relates to the Savior's connection of keeping the commandments to eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

IOW--even if one believes the young ruler was a liar--God isn't. It was Jesus who gave the testimony found above--not the young ruler.

Next--how does anyone mesh the above testimony with Lutheran theology?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how any of that relates to the Savior's connection of keeping the commandments to eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

IOW--even if one believes the young ruler was a liar--God isn't. It was Jesus who gave the testimony found above--not the young ruler.

Next--how does anyone mesh the above testimony with Lutheran theology?
Already explained the connection here:

Lutheran theology | Page 14 | CARM Forums

There is only one way to keep the commandments in this life--I explained it in this post, which has stuff from post no. 7 that I previously posted in response to these verses....now what is the ONLY way we can keep the commandments in this life? I said how, in this post...care to tell us what I wrote? Just to make sure you read it....?
 
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BJ Bear

Well-known member
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how any of that relates to the Savior's connection of keeping the commandments to eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

IOW--even if one believes the young ruler was a liar--God isn't. It was Jesus who gave the testimony found above--not the young ruler.

Next--how does anyone mesh the above testimony with Lutheran theology?
Who is the only person who was eternally raised from the dead based upon a sinless and perfectly life. It is the true Jesus, the historical one presented in the Judeo/Christian scriptures, the one the cult says they have nothing to do with.

Enough said.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Who is the only person who was eternally raised from the dead based upon a sinless and perfectly life.

How are you using that to preclude the testimony of Christ--connecting His grace unto eternal life with keeping the commandments?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Christ was the only One to have perfect faith--how are you using that to preclude the connection between our faith and His grace?
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
How are you using that to preclude the testimony of Christ--connecting His grace unto eternal life with keeping the commandments?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Christ was the only One to have perfect faith--how are you using that to preclude the connection between our faith and His grace?
It is affirming the words of the true Jesus rather than precluding them. Has He not done good in your opinion? Do you not believe He was sinless? Do you not believe that the true Jesus was raised from the dead?

He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world. That sacrifice can only be received through faith as it is not your work or any other man's work other than the true Jesus.

Romans 3:20-28 Therefore by works of the law no flesh shall be justified in His sight, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law has been revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and upon all those that believe. For there is no distinction; for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation through faith in His blood, for a demonstration of His righteousness through the passing over of the sins having previously committed, in the forbearance of God, for a demonstration of His righteousness in the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of he who has faith in Jesus. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. Through what law? Of works? No, but through the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law. -EMTV
 

riecher

New Member
As I understand the major difference between Lutherans and Catholics is how they see the role of the Church?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Can you explain?
Lutherans believe we are justified--made right and righteous with God--by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord and not by any works we do. Catholics believe in salvation by grace through faith as well as our works--a couple of Catholics years ago told me that when someone believes in Jesus Christ, then the works they do help to save them. But good works are the result of being saved; the by-product, if you will, for our works do not save us.

The first sin was one of pride--wanting to be like God, or be gods. So, I think it is no accident that salvation is taken completely out of our hands, and is something we must humbly admit we are helpless to achieve on our own. We have no cause to boast of anything we might do, to help save ourselves. We must admit that we are totally helpless and plead for Jesus to save us. And He does--completely. That may not sound fair--that Jesus had to do it all--but if God were only interested in fairness, He never would have sent His Son to die for us, but would let all of us die in our sins. But greater than God's fairness are His love and mercy. "He saved us, NOT on account of works which we have done in righteousness, but on account of His mercy...." (Titus 3).
 
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Bonnie

Super Member
It's about time.
What Jesus asked the young man just proved he had never kept the commandments. Nor could he. Anyone who thinks he can keep God's commandments is either a fool, or a liar. Trying to keep them is not enough--they are the 10 COMMAMDMENTS, not the 10 suggestions. We are supposed to keep ALL of them. But we cannot. Only Jesus ever did and as I wrote earlier, the only way to obey the commandments to perfectly this side of heaven is to have Jesus' perfect keeping of them credited to us by grace through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

Nic

Well-known member
What Jesus asked the young man just proved he had never kept the commandments. Nor could he. Anyone who thinks he can keep God's commandments is either a fool, or a liar. Trying to keep them is not enough--they are the 10 COMMAMDMENTS, not the 10 suggestions. We are supposed to keep ALL of them. But we cannot. Only Jesus ever did and as I wrote earlier, the only way to obey the commandments to perfectly this side of heaven is to have Jesus' perfect keeping of them credited to us by grace through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord.
I'm not sure of the motive or how strict a definition of commandments that was being utilized but once visiting a Lutheran study the pastor left it as a question as to whether or not he kept the commandments after I said he didn't he replied 'Didn't he?"
 

riecher

New Member
Lutherans believe we are justified--made right and righteous with God--by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord and not by any works we do. Catholics believe in salvation by grace through faith as well as our works--a couple of Catholics years ago told me that when someone believes in Jesus Christ, then the works they do help to save them. But good works are the result of being saved; the by-product, if you will, for our works do not save us.

The first sin was one of pride--wanting to be like God, or be gods. So, I think it is no accident that salvation is taken completely out of our hands, and is something we must humbly admit we are helpless to achieve on our own. We have no cause to boast of anything we might do, to help save ourselves. We must admit that we are totally helpless and plead for Jesus to save us. And He does--completely. That may not sound fair--that Jesus had to do it all--but if God were only interested in fairness, He never would have sent His Son to die for us, but would let all of us die in our sins. But greater than God's fairness are His love and mercy. "He saved us, NOT on account of works which we have done in righteousness, but on account of His mercy...." (Titus 3).
Thanks for your explanation. Referring to this article differencebtwn.com/difference-between-lutheran-vs-catholic I understand: Catholic - working and performing tasks in faith to God. Lutheran - having faith alone.
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
Thanks for your explanation. Referring to this article differencebtwn.com/difference-between-lutheran-vs-catholic I understand: Catholic - working and performing tasks in faith to God. Lutheran - having faith alone.
Hi,

I read the summary at the link you provided and it wasn't accurate. For a more accuate summary a person can read the Augsburg Confession here: https://bookofconcord.org/augsburg-confession/

At the end of each Article there are two links. One is to the Confutatio Pontificia, the Papal response to that article of the Augsburg Confession. The other is to the Apology Of The Augsburg Confession, the Evangelical response to the Confutatio Pontificia.
 
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