Majority of scholars? Who, and where?

[Whatsisface]

Cheap reaching for the appeal to popularity fallacy.
Flat earthers 100% totally rejected science.

No, actually. What counts are the reasons for the consensus.

 

[Tiburon]

which just tells me that you were a PK, who never actually met Jesus.

Correct. I am not 2000 years old.

so, just as long as you believe it, it's necessarily, and objectively true?
seems a rather dangerous place to live.

No.

that's the great thing about reality.
YHVH said that he would give us a heart to know him.
Jesus said that if we keep his teachings, we would be loved by God and both Jesus and his Father will come and make their home with us.
the reality of the gospel of Jesus is that we can be fully reconciled with YHVH.

That's the great thing about books.
The writer can put whatever words they like into the mouths of their characters.

None of them had what I wanted.

So it wasn't about truth, it was about what you wanted.

I already did.

I must have missed it.

nope. Emotion is a result, an outcome of out thinking. Not a cause.
Emotional response can indeed drive future thinking, but the initial element is not emotion.

Ok. And you believe the thought because of the emotional reward.

yes it does.
is that a problem?
is enjoying Peace, contentment, satisfaction, love, calmness of being wrong?
is it wrong to experience rest in your inner being? The life of the soul is the way humans are designed.

It's only a problem, when you accept an idea as true, solely on the basis of the emotional payoff it provides.

and what do you base your belief about this on?

Evidence, whenever possible.

My application of the biblical teaching in my everyday life will bear out the truthfulness of the biblical narrative.

No, it won't. Practitioners of every religion will say the same thing. They can't all be right.

it won't for those who never do what Jesus says.
Only those who obey him will know the truth.

Those who obey him will believe they know the truth.
Just like believers of every other religion believe that they know the truth.

The consequence of ignoring the reality of man's fallen nature is an eternal problem.

But, tell me... you think murder, theft, robbery, greed, avarice, cheating on one's spouse, fraud, deceit, etc... are all good things?
Do you think that alcoholism, drug abuse, etc... are good things?

No, I don't think they are good things. I also don't think they are the result of a couple of naked people eating a piece of fruit.

 

[SteveB]

Correct. I am not 2000 years old.

Yeah, I don't know anyone else who is that old either.
I have however met 3 people who have lived since eternity past.
I've found it curious that YHVH created us in his own likeness and image, and people think that they can figure it out without any input from Him.
Furthermore, or perhaps more importantly, they think that if they don't perceive him on their own, he must not exist.
Especially when it's written that we need him to make it possible for us to know him, while simultaneously his expectation that we seek him out.

No.


That's the great thing about books.
The writer can put whatever words they like into the mouths of their characters.

Curious...
So, you have no problem whatsoever with scholastic texts writing whatever they want and you believe that such things are true, without question, but offhandedly dismiss the Bible, when it clearly states that the only way to know it's true is by acting on what is written in it.

So it wasn't about truth, it was about what you wanted.

You make it sound like you reject the idea of objective truth and it's about desire.

I have no problem whatsoever with wanting to know whether or not YHVH is real and knowable.
If you don't want to actually know God, then that's a you thing.
Your lack of experience and knowledge doesn't mean that he's not real, or knowable.
Nor does it mean that he won't do everything he said he would.
What it does mean is that you won't be able to experience any of the good he has promised to do for those who believe him.

I'll stick with YHVH and objective Truth.
We do after all see...

I must have missed it.

According to you, you did.

Ok. And you believe the thought because of the emotional reward.

As I am a human being, and not a robot, I've found that the human experience is rife with both positive and negative emotions.

i find it curious that emotions are such a problem for you....

I don't depend on mine to determine reality.
At the same time, I don't close myself off from them either.
I remember as a child, growing up and watching Star Trek, with Spock, and his "ability" to cut off his emotional nature. It became a thing that was really popular in the time I grew up in.
I found it interesting, because people would use drugs and alcohol to help them feel, or become numb to feeling, because life was so hard.
So popular was that idea that Roger Waters, of Pink Floyd fame, wrote a song, called-comfortably numb.

So, while I can appreciate the troubles people have with emotion, God created the human race with the capacity to feel, and perceive the world around us, through emotion.

As such, while basing our perception of reality on feeling is not healthy, it is part of the human experience and needs to be reconciled with to better understand reality.

And as YHVH created us in this manner, it's necessary to be made whole, in our humanity. Which is exactly what Jesus is accomplishing...

Making the human being a whole being.

Spirit, Soul and Body.
Sin killed the spirit, and damages the soul, and we become animalistic in our relationship with the world.
Jesus restores the spirit to life, and as we obey God's written word, our soul is healed, and restored to wholeness, placing our bodies back in subjection to our spirit and a right relationship with YHVH.

It's only a problem, when you accept an idea as true, solely on the basis of the emotional payoff it provides.

So, in your rush to be right, you ignore your humanity?
Sounds like you're stuck.

Evidence, whenever possible.

If that's true, then you would have met Jesus already.

No, it won't. Practitioners of every religion will say the same thing. They can't all be right.

That's right.
So, what prevents the Truth from being right?

Those who obey him will believe they know the truth.

yeah, that is indeed true, but that is is based on two fundamental principles stated in the Bible.
1- Jesus said so.
2- YHVH cannot lie.

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

"Truth*" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.

www.blueletterbible.org

Rather interesting that we read YHVH is Truth, and his Word, and Law are Truth.

We further read that the foundation of his throne is righteousness and justice.

Psa 89:14 WEB Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne. Loving kindness and truth go before your face.

Granted, both these things would require you to believe someone whom you have repeatedly stated you don't want to know.

Just like believers of every other religion believe that they know the truth.

Do you have actual evidence of this, or is it just an opinion based on what others tell you? Remember, you're the one who said evidence is important.
You know what I find curious....
Just about every single religion on earth has something to say about Jesus.
To most he's a prophet, or a good teacher.

If he's just a prophet, or a good teacher, it strikes me that it'd be important to find out what Jesus himself actually said.

and a close look at what Jesus said about himself....
There's no room for him JUST being a good teacher or a prophet.
Guys who make the kinds of claims Jesus made are generally viewed as lunatics, and liars. People who should be locked up in insane asylums.
So, if you really want to believe that other religions are true, then the problem you're having is that they claim Jesus is a prophet of God.
Prophets who speak for God cannot be liars.
and being clear minded enough to actually speak for God means that lunacy is off the table.
otherwise, they're false prophets.

Good Teachers, also cannot be liars, and lunacy cannot be part of their nature.
otherwise, you'd never be able to know if what they're talking about is the truth or not.

So, since all those other religions you're playing games with to justify your unbelief, they're pointing to Jesus.

This means that you'd have to look at Jesus more closely.
Something you appear to be afraid to do.

Jesus didn't leave any room for him to be anything other than what he said about himself.

No, I don't think they are good things. I also don't think they are the result of a couple of naked people eating a piece of fruit.

So, the fact that the first murder taking place in the next generation after Adam and Eve isn't a clue that there was a serious problem in the human race at that point?

 

[Tiburon]

Yeah, I don't know anyone else who is that old either.
I have however met 3 people who have lived since eternity past.
I've found it curious that YHVH created us in his own likeness and image, and people think that they can figure it out without any input from Him.
Furthermore, or perhaps more importantly, they think that if they don't perceive him on their own, he must not exist.
Especially when it's written that we need him to make it possible for us to know him, while simultaneously his expectation that we seek him out.

Who would those 3 people be? Did you meet them in the flesh?
I don't find it curious that people who don't believe what you believe give no mind to what the bible says about where we came from.

Curious...
So, you have no problem whatsoever with scholastic texts writing whatever they want and you believe that such things are true, without question, but offhandedly dismiss the Bible, when it clearly states that the only way to know it's true is by acting on what is written in it.

That would be curious, if it were true. I try to evaluate scholarly claims with the same rigor as I evaluate biblical claims.
So the only way to know that the bible is true is to believe that it is true? That sounds perfectly reasonable.

You make it sound like you reject the idea of objective truth and it's about desire.

That's what you seem to be invoking in evaluating the gamut of religious claims.
Objective truth relates to things that can be measured. Anything else introduces subjective evaluation. Can the truth of God be measured?

I have no problem whatsoever with wanting to know whether or not YHVH is real and knowable.
If you don't want to actually know God, then that's a you thing.
Your lack of experience and knowledge doesn't mean that he's not real, or knowable.
Nor does it mean that he won't do everything he said he would.
What it does mean is that you won't be able to experience any of the good he has promised to do for those who believe him.

I'll stick with YHVH and objective Truth.
We do after all see...

Sticking with YHVH, is about what you want, not objective truth.

According to you, you did.

So you don't wish to enlighten me again?

As I am a human being, and not a robot, I've found that the human experience is rife with both positive and negative emotions.

i find it curious that emotions are such a problem for you....

I don't depend on mine to determine reality.

At the same time, I don't close myself off from them either.
I remember as a child, growing up and watching Star Trek, with Spock, and his "ability" to cut off his emotional nature. It became a thing that was really popular in the time I grew up in.
I found it interesting, because people would use drugs and alcohol to help them feel, or become numb to feeling, because life was so hard.
So popular was that idea that Roger Waters, of Pink Floyd fame, wrote a song, called-comfortably numb.

So, while I can appreciate the troubles people have with emotion, God created the human race with the capacity to feel, and perceive the world around us, through emotion.

As such, while basing our perception of reality on feeling is not healthy, it is part of the human experience and needs to be reconciled with to better understand reality.

And as YHVH created us in this manner, it's necessary to be made whole, in our humanity. Which is exactly what Jesus is accomplishing...

Making the human being a whole being.

Spirit, Soul and Body.
Sin killed the spirit, and damages the soul, and we become animalistic in our relationship with the world.
Jesus restores the spirit to life, and as we obey God's written word, our soul is healed, and restored to wholeness, placing our bodies back in subjection to our spirit and a right relationship with YHVH.

Emotions aren't a problem for me.
I don't depend on mine to determine reality.
I think most Christians do however.

So, in your rush to be right, you ignore your humanity?
Sounds like you're stuck.

In your rush to answer you insert ideas that are not mine.

If that's true, then you would have met Jesus already.

I did have an experience, that at the time, in the context of my understanding I took as meeting Jesus.
Did I really meet Jesus? No.

That's right.
So, what prevents the Truth from being right?

Nothing. Claiming that you have the Truth though doesn't make it so.

yeah, that is indeed true, but that is is based on two fundamental principles stated in the Bible.
1- Jesus said so.
2- YHVH cannot lie.

Based upon two unverifiable principles that believers believe.

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

"Truth*" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.

www.blueletterbible.org

Rather interesting that we read YHVH is Truth, and his Word, and Law are Truth.

Why is it rather interesting that a religious tome would make grandiose claims about it's deity?
I find it pretty run of the mill.

We further read that the foundation of his throne is righteousness and justice.

Psa 89:14 WEB Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne. Loving kindness and truth go before your face.

Granted, both these things would require you to believe someone whom you have repeatedly stated you don't want to know.

Where have I stated that I don't want to know?

Do you have actual evidence of this, or is it just an opinion based on what others tell you? Remember, you're the one who said evidence is important.

You claim to have spoken to many people with a variety of beliefs. Did none of them express the idea that their belief was the truth. What kind of evidence do you want? Recorded testimony?

You know what I find curious....
Just about every single religion on earth has something to say about Jesus.

What I find curious is that you believe this.
Outside Abrahamic religions he barely raises a mention.

To most he's a prophet, or a good teacher.

If he's just a prophet, or a good teacher, it strikes me that it'd be important to find out what Jesus himself actually said.

and a close look at what Jesus said about himself....
There's no room for him JUST being a good teacher or a prophet.
Guys who make the kinds of claims Jesus made are generally viewed as lunatics, and liars. People who should be locked up in insane asylums.
So, if you really want to believe that other religions are true, then the problem you're having is that they claim Jesus is a prophet of God.
Prophets who speak for God cannot be liars.
and being clear minded enough to actually speak for God means that lunacy is off the table.
otherwise, they're false prophets.

Good Teachers, also cannot be liars, and lunacy cannot be part of their nature.
otherwise, you'd never be able to know if what they're talking about is the truth or not.

So, since all those other religions you're playing games with to justify your unbelief, they're pointing to Jesus.

This means that you'd have to look at Jesus more closely.
Something you appear to be afraid to do.

Jesus didn't leave any room for him to be anything other than what he said about himself.

Oh, the old Lord, Liar, Lunatic.
There is plenty of room for Jesus to be other than what was said about him.
What did he say for which he should have been locked up in insane asylums?
It is important to find out what Jesus himself actually said. Unfortunately we only have hearsay reports.
People who are claimed to be prophets and speak for God can definitely be liars.
There have been many throughout history.

So, the fact that the first murder taking place in the next generation after Adam and Eve isn't a clue that there was a serious problem in the human race at that point?

Myths are a reflection of, and a means to try and understand, human nature. What I find curious is that you think those stories are factual.

 

[SteveB]

Who would those 3 people be?

YHVH.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Did you meet them in the flesh?

Jesus is the only one who has a body of flesh and he's been resurrected, so it's taken on a new, unique nature. A nature that those who are accounted worthy to attain the resurrection of the just will likewise be given.

I don't find it curious that people who don't believe what you believe give no mind to what the bible says about where we came from.

that's simply because you don't actually want to know.

That would be curious, if it were true. I try to evaluate scholarly claims with the same rigor as I evaluate biblical claims.

Pity you don't embrace life with as much diligence and vehemence as you do this.
You'd be able to actually know and experience him on his terms.

So the only way to know that the bible is true is to believe that it is true?

Actually, Jesus says

John 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
three really basic and primal things occur when you do what Jesus says.
1- God comes and makes his home in your life.
2- you learn for yourself that God is real, knowable, and Jesus is exactly who he claims to be.
3- the Bible is true.

That sounds perfectly reasonable.

I thought so.
Jesus further stated

John 8:30-32 WEB 30 As he spoke these things, many believed in him. 31 Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. 32 You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”


freedom of the soul, and inner man is only found in Jesus.

That's what you seem to be invoking in evaluating the gamut of religious claims.

As long as you're actually diligent about it and don't use it as an excuse to disregard Jesus and the gospel.

Objective truth relates to things that can be measured. Anything else introduces subjective evaluation. Can the truth of God be measured?

On whose terms?
Humans have made electronic, mechanical, electromechanical devices to measure the natural world. from the macroscopic to the nanoscopic, visible and physically observable with human eyes, and touch, to the invisible, and untouchable due to its size, and nature.

Considering the magnitude of the creativity that went into such devices, and intelligence required to achieve such ingenuity, I'd say that we'd have to do something like that for God.
Thus, we start with the documents that are God-documents, and investigate what they claim, to see if he's given us a methodology to become acquainted with him.

Jesus did say,

John 7:16-18 WEB 16 Jesus therefore answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 17 If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God or if I am speaking from myself. 18 He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory, but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

This is what Jesus followers do to learn the truth for ourselves.

just intellectually assenting to a collection of ideas isn't enough to actually know Truth.
genuine knowledge and experience requires "digging in, and getting one's hands dirty!"

we see this described in the Bible, throughout.

In James 1, we read that it's necessary to be a doer of God's Word and not just a hearer only.

In Matthew 7, Jesus said it's not enough to call him Lord. Many will come to him in the final day, and call him Lord, and remind him of all the great works they did in his name. He says he will tell them- depart from me, I never knew you!
He then goes on to describe the most certain way to ensure that he actually acknowledges you as one of his followers.
Do what he says!
He further said that failure to do so will result in a very sad, and very catastrophic destruction of one's life.

Sticking with YHVH, is about what you want, not objective truth.

actually, I've chosen to do so because over the course of the past 46 years I've repeatedly found that YHVH is exactly who he describes himself as in the Bible.

it's known as what I described above.
Learning and then doing what Jesus said.
YHVH himself demonstrates himself true to those who engage him on his terms and don't quit.

So you don't wish to enlighten me again?

do what Jesus says and He will enlighten you himself.
Otherwise, you'll just continue to argue that you don't actually believe what I've stated, and continue to give your long and oft-repeated list of excuses, and justifications for why you shouldn't have to take me, or yourself seriously.

We do after all read in Hebrews 5,

He is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey him.

Emotions aren't a problem for me.
I don't depend on mine to determine reality.

For your sake, I hope that is true.

I think most Christians do however.

Well, just as long as you think it's true, who cares what the truth about them actually is! Clearly not you! You're convinced they do.

I'm curious.... when you stand before God and answer for your own life, do you really think that he's going to ask you- what did you think other people were going to do with my Son?

Nope.
He's going to ask you-- why didn't you believe in my Son?

and I guarantee that "i thought they were too dependent on their emotions" won't be an acceptable answer.

In all honesty, there are no excuses.

In your rush to answer you insert ideas that are not mine.

yet you continue to choose to not know YHVH.

I did have an experience, that at the time, in the context of my understanding I took as meeting Jesus.
Did I really meet Jesus? No.

so, you thought you believed something that you didn't actually know, and now you're wandering around life, and spending your time on an internet forum, conversing with strangers that you again know that which you don't actually know....

How's that working for you?

Perhaps the person who trusted their emotions was actually you, and you thought other Christians were trusting their emotions, because it was in fact YOU who depended your own feelings.

Paul describes this phenomenon in Romans 2.

Nothing. Claiming that you have the Truth though doesn't make it so.

and what you you think is the means by which people actually know, possess, and are possessed by Truth?
Or do you think it's not actually possible, and the entire human race is bereft of the capacity to objectively know Truth?

Based upon two unverifiable principles that believers believe.

and how do you actually know that those two principles are unverifiable?

Did you stop after a couple failures based on what you thought they were supposed to be and do?

This is the nature of learning.

Thomas Edison had over a thousand failed lightbulbs before he found one that worked.
When asked why he kept going, he said- I now know 1000 different ways that light bulbs don't work.
just because you don't think they're verifiable does not in fact make it so.

what it does mean, at least, is that you stopped before you learned.

Why is it rather interesting that a religious tome would make grandiose claims about it's deity?
I find it pretty run of the mill.

The nature of curiousity.

Where have I stated that I don't want to know?

Pretty much everything you post, and state.
If you actually wanted to know, we'd be having an entirely different conversation.

You claim to have spoken to many people with a variety of beliefs. Did none of them express the idea that their belief was the truth.

Of course they did. Some vehemently so. But they didn’t have any means by which they could corroborate it.

What kind of evidence do you want?

A means to corroborate the veracity of their claims.

Recorded testimony?

Nope.

What I find curious is that you believe this.
Outside Abrahamic religions he barely raises a mention.

Barely raises isn't the same as doesn't raise at all.

BBC - Religions - Hinduism: Jesus in Hinduism

Shaunaka Rishi Das, a Hindu priest, gives his view on Jesus.

www.bbc.co.uk

Project MUSE - Was Jesus a Buddhist?

muse.jhu.edu

 

[SteveB]

Oh, the old Lord, Liar, Lunatic.

Just because it’s dated to the 40's doesn't make it wrong.

your great grandparents are anachronistic. Does that mean they're not who they were?

There is plenty of room for Jesus to be other than what was said about him.

by all means, present your case.

What did he say for which he should have been locked up in insane asylums?

Hmm.... so you've never actually read the Bible for the purpose of learning and understanding.
He claims to be God. So profound was his claim that the religious leaders wanted to stone him to death for blasphemy.

It is important to find out what Jesus himself actually said. Unfortunately we only have hearsay reports.

so says a hearsayer, who never actually read the Bible for the purpose of learning and discovering who Jesus himself claims to be.

People who are claimed to be prophets and speak for God can definitely be liars.
There have been many throughout history.

And yet, in your mind, none of them could be telling the truth.
Why is that?

Myths are a reflection of, and a means to try and understand, human nature. What I find curious is that you think those stories are factual.

Case in point... your ongoing dedication to deliberate and willful ignorance is classic evidence that you don't actually want to know the truth.

 

[Our Lord's God]

just intellectually assenting to a collection of ideas isn't enough to actually know Truth.
genuine knowledge and experience requires "digging in, and getting one's hands dirty!"

Only by the Spirit of Truth in teachings of the Spirit.

In Matthew 7, Jesus said it's not enough to call him Lord. Many will come to him in the final day, and call him Lord, and remind him of all the great works they did in his name. He says he will tell them- depart from me, I never knew you!
He then goes on to describe the most certain way to ensure that he actually acknowledges you as one of his followers.
Do what he says!
He further said that failure to do so will result in a very sad, and very catastrophic destruction of one's life.

These men confessed him as Lord, prophesied in his name, cast out demons in his name, and did miracles in his name.

Were these things not "doing what he says?"

actually, I've chosen to do so because over the course of the past 46 years I've repeatedly found that YHVH is exactly who he describes himself as in the Bible.

The God of our Lord?

Perhaps the person who trusted their emotions was actually you, and you thought other Christians were trusting their emotions, because it was in fact YOU who depended your own feelings.

Paul describes this phenomenon in Romans 2.

Where?

and what you you think is the means by which people actually know, possess, and are possessed by Truth?
Or do you think it's not actually possible, and the entire human race is bereft of the capacity to objectively know Truth?

and how do you actually know that those two principles are unverifiable?

Did you stop after a couple failures based on what you thought they were supposed to be and do?

This is the nature of learning.

Thomas Edison had over a thousand failed lightbulbs before he found one that worked.
When asked why he kept going, he said- I now know 1000 different ways that light bulbs don't work.
just because you don't think they're verifiable does not in fact make it so.

what it does mean, at least, is that you stopped before you learned.



The nature of curiousity.


Pretty much everything you post, and state.
If you actually wanted to know, we'd be having an entirely different conversation.



Of course they did. Some vehemently so. But they didn’t have any means by which they could corroborate it.


A means to corroborate the veracity of their claims.


Nope.

Barely raises isn't the same as doesn't raise at all.

BBC - Religions - Hinduism: Jesus in Hinduism

Shaunaka Rishi Das, a Hindu priest, gives his view on Jesus.

www.bbc.co.uk

Project MUSE - Was Jesus a Buddhist?

muse.jhu.edu

 

[SteveB]

Only by the Spirit of Truth in teachings of the Spirit.



These men confessed him as Lord, prophesied in his name, cast out demons in his name, and did miracles in his name.

Were these things not "doing what he says?"

Apparently not!
Jesus said-
Depart from me you workers of iniquity! I never knew you.

Furthermore, he prefaced the warning with the statement-- not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the kingdom of God. But those who do the Will of my Father who is in heaven.
Thus, it's critical to make sure that we are actually doing God's Will.

The God of our Lord?

YHVH.

Where?

First five verses in the chapter.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Apparently not!
Jesus said-
Depart from me you workers of iniquity! I never knew you.

Furthermore, he prefaced the warning with the statement-- not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the kingdom of God. But those who do the Will of my Father who is in heaven.
Thus, it's critical to make sure that we are actually doing God's Will.

So then why wouldn't confessing Jesus as Lord, prophesying, casting out demons, and doing many miracles in his name, be doing God's will?

YHVH.

The God of our Lord?

First five verses in the chapter.

I don't see anything at Romans 2:1-5 about relying on feelings or emotions. It's not on Paul's radar here.

 

[SteveB]

So then why wouldn't confessing Jesus as Lord, prophesying, casting out demons, and doing many miracles in his name, be doing God's will?

Try reading the passage in its entirety.
It seems pretty clearly stated why.

The God of our Lord?

YHVH.
That's his name.

I don't see anything at Romans 2:1-5 about relying on feelings or emotions. It's not on Paul's radar here.

Then you should try paying closer attention to what i said.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Try reading the passage in its entirety.
It seems pretty clearly stated why.

Been there done that. So what's YOUR answer?

Why wouldn't confessing Jesus as Lord, prophesying, casting out demons, and doing many miracles in his name, be doing God's will?

YHVH.
That's his name.

The name of the God of our Lord?

Then you should try paying closer attention to what i said.

That IS what you said.

 

[SteveB]

Been there done that. So what's YOUR answer?

Previously stated my answer.
If you've already been there done that, then you know the answer, and aren't helping yourself.

Why wouldn't confessing Jesus as Lord, prophesying, casting out demons, and doing many miracles in his name, be doing God's will?

Apparently your "been there done that" didn't include reading the bible and talking to Jesus about it.

The name of the God of our Lord?

YHVH.

That IS what you said.

It's stated in Romans 2:1-6.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Previously stated my answer.
If you've already been there done that, then you know the answer, and aren't helping yourself.

I see. I am supposed to pretend that you actually have an answer.

Apparently your "been there done that" didn't include reading the bible and talking to Jesus about it.


YHVH.


It's stated in Romans 2:1-6.

Maybe if I put on a blindfold and imagine it says something else.

 

[SteveB]

I see. I am supposed to pretend that you actually have an answer.

Sounds like you're stuck with the passage.
What do you think Jesus is saying?
Mat 7:21-27 KJV 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Read it again.
What is Jesus saying?

Maybe if I put on a blindfold and imagine it says something else.

What is Paul talking about here?

Rom 2:1-6 KJV 1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

 

[SteveB]

I asked you a question.

And I answered. Twice.
you kept griping.
so changed my tact, and gave you the opportunity to explain what part of the passage you weren't understanding. But instead of doing so, you ramped it up, and blamed me for your unwillingness to explain why you weren't able to understand the passage.

You are refusing to provide an answer.

Nope. I answered it twice.

No, I'm not going to pretend otherwise along with you.

then the problem is yours and nobody else's.

Okay, I can see that the chance of having an honest rational discussion with you is nil.

I'm not the one who continues playing immature games to gain the appearance before men .

Since you're consistently refusing to engage, I'm done with your games.

 

[Our Lord's God]

And I answered. Twice

Responding is not equivalent to answering is it?

Why do you keep expecting me to participate in your games of pretend?

you kept griping.
so changed my tact, and gave you the opportunity to explain what part of the passage you weren't understanding. But instead of doing so, you ramped it up, and blamed me for your unwillingness to explain why you weren't able to understand the passage.


Nope. I answered it twice.

Footstomping won't help either.

then the problem is yours and nobody else's.

On the Confirmation Bias crazy train anything is possible.

I'm not the one who continues playing immature games to gain the appearance before men .

Since you're consistently refusing to engage, I'm done with your games.

 

[SteveB]

Responding is not equivalent to answering is it?

Why do you keep expecting me to participate in your games of pretend?



Footstomping won't help either.



On the Confirmation Bias crazy train anything is possible.

Do you have something to say about the op, or are you just looking to gain some street creds with atheists?

 

[Our Lord's God]

Do you have something to say about the op, or are you just looking to gain some street creds with atheists?

Is that all you are worried about?

For you, it seems, there are two sides: You vs. them. Your side vs. Their side.

I have no interest in that kind of folly.

 

[SteveB]

Is that all you are worried about?

??
From you?
Nope.

For you, it seems, there are two sides: You vs. them. Your side vs. Their side.

You asked a question. I gave you 3 opportunities to explain. You refused.

Now you're blaming and accusing.
there's only one person who needs to blame and accuse.
I'm curious if you know who that is.

I have no interest in that kind of folly.

You have no interest in actually gaining understanding.

 

[Our Lord's God]

??
From you?
Nope.


You asked a question. I gave you 3 opportunities to explain. You refused.

That makes absolutely no sense.

Now you're blaming and accusing.
there's only one person who needs to blame and accuse.
I'm curious if you know who that is.


You have no interest in actually gaining understanding.