Making God the author of sin

Bocco

Active member
Lam 3:37 Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has commanded it?

This seems to be a rhetorical question by Jeremiah with the assumed answer of "nobody."

Would that apply to Satan the Father of lies.

I'm not saying that the Lord has to command every exact word, but Satan or if you prefer the Serpent did speak and lie to Eve.

Again, just venting against Arminians or Pelagians who seem to think that a lot of things that happen are just chance events. God doesn't control these things, He just tries to clean up the mess afterwards.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Adam's fall involved sin

How is it you missed the obvious

What would you call revolt against God

and what do you imagine the evil to be that Calvin says God works into the heart of the wicked

'No there was no bait and switch

You simply were not being very perceptive here

Lam 3:37 Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has commanded it?

This seems to be a rhetorical question by Jeremiah with the assumed answer of "nobody."

Would that apply to Satan the Father of lies.

I'm not saying that the Lord has to command every exact word, but Satan or if you prefer the Serpent did speak and lie to Eve.

Again, just venting against Arminians or Pelagians who seem to think that a lot of things that happen are just chance events. God doesn't control these things, He just tries to clean up the mess afterwards.
Exactly. God determined the fall yet Adam freely chose to sin making him responsible.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I admit that by the will of God all the sons of Adam fell into that state of wretchedness in which they are now involved; and this is just what I said at the first, that we must always return to the mere pleasure of the divine will, the cause of which is hidden in himself

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).

Since you got this from Logos, which you presumably have, is there a particular reason you chose NOT to give the specific citation? Is it that you didn't want anyone to check the context?

For the record, it's III.23.4.
Does this mean you've read the first two books in their entirety and Book III up to Ch. 23?

If God merely foresaw human events, and did not also arrange and dispose of them at his pleasure, there might be room for agitating the question, how far his foreknowledge amounts to necessity; but since he foresees the things which are to happen, simply because he has decreed that they are so to happen, it is vain to debate about prescience, while it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).

Since you got this from Logos, which you presumably have, is there a particular reason you chose NOT to give the specific citation? Is it that you didn't want anyone to check the context?

For the record, it's III.23.6.
Does this mean you've read the first two books in their entirety and Book III up to Ch. 23?

They deny that it is ever said in distinct terms, God decreed that Adam should perish by his revolt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Nor ought it to seem absurd when I say, that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).

Since you got this from Logos, which you presumably have, is there a particular reason you chose NOT to give the specific citation? Is it that you didn't want anyone to check the context?

For the record, it's III.23.7.
Does this mean you've read the first two books in their entirety and Book III up to Ch. 23?

how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permissionIt is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of themWho does not tremble at these judgments with which God works in the hearts of even the wicked whatever He will, rewarding them nonetheless according to desert?

John Calvin, “The Eternal Predestination of God,

So did you take out the two sections of text, and replace them with ellipses, or did the secondary source you plagiarized this from take out the text? Do you even know what the removed text was?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Doublespeak

If it was determined it was necessary and necessity is contrary to freedom

We could, technically, say the free agent is the determiner in that sense, thus it is determined.

Foreknowledge does not equal necessity, this is simply a logical error that does not follow.
 

fltom

Well-known member
We could, technically, say the free agent is the determiner in that sense, thus it is determined.

Foreknowledge does not equal necessity, this is simply a logical error that does not follow.
Foreknowledge does not necessitate necessity but determinism does

and of course putting the discussion in context it is God's determinism being addressed
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Theo
Since you got this from Logos, which you presumably have, is there a particular reason you chose NOT to give the specific citation? Is it that you didn't want anyone to check the context?


Yes I have it and that is how it was quoted from logos as you can clearly see

Why did you dodge my questions?

1) Why did you INTENTIONALLY omit the citations?
2) Have you read the Institutes all the way to the point you quoted?

Does this mean you've read the first two books in their entirety and Book III up to Ch. 23?

Do you have anything to say which addresses the text

Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

Does this mean you've read the first two books in their entirety and Book III up to Ch. 23?

Is there a reason you just repeat yourself?

Do you have anything which addresses the text

Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

NOT to give the specific citation? Is it that you didn't want anyone to check the context?

Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

Have you nothing to say addressing it?

Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

So did you take out the two sections of text, and replace them with ellipses, or did the secondary source you plagiarized this from take out the text? Do you even know what the removed text was?

As a mater fact I addressed this a while back

I purchased the book and verified the quote

and posted previously that the quote was valid

again do you have anything which actually addresses the quote

Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

Why did you REMOVE the two sections replaced by ellipses?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Saving Space and typing

Can you deal with the quotes

they are valid quotes from Calvin

Since you refuse to answer MY questions, I see no reason why I should waste my time answering yours.

Why do you keep DODGING my questions?
 

Sketo

Well-known member
how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permission…It is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of them…Who does not tremble at these judgments with which God works in the hearts of even the wicked whatever He will, rewarding them nonetheless according to desert?

John Calvin, “The Eternal Predestination of God,

This is not Rocket Science people.

When a Non-Calvinist, like fltom, and a Calvinist, like John Calvin, use a phrase that has multiple meanings like the phrase “Author of Sin/Evil” consider that the other sides meaning may be different from yours.

For those who care what Calvin, and other Consistent Calvinists mean when they say “God is the Author of All Things including sin” here you go…


for the short 10min version consider CCP

 
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