Making God the author of sin

HealTheLand

Active member
God does no evil , and causes no evil…

the satanic realm with its good and evil tree does that.

not God.

divisions. in Christ there - is Wholeness


falling from wholeness causes divisions

divisions of mind, heart, body... diseases


James 1:17 - Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

every good gift is at the best - of Wholeness -

but maybe levels thereof


no variableness, no shadows -- of unknowing or Incompleteness - whole. without divisions


John 12:25 - He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.


will lose all the division(s) - in one's self (through Christ - wholeness - completeness) -

keeps all commands/laws - due to


Wholeness of mind, body, spirit - no divisions any more

if/when (a process - not instant or even of wholeness
and completeness instant possible) living for Christ.


Amplified Bible
But I urge you, believers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in full agreement in what you say, and that there be no divisions or factions among you, but that you be perfectly united in your way of thinking and in your judgment [about matters of the faith].

no longer only - sees in PART -


divisions of mind(s) - begins to see much more in whole -

everything illuminated for such - for God is Light and there is no darkness -

in such a person - anymore - if/when/as/the more - wholeness - and completeness -


is brought about (with the Spirit's help) - in one's self.
 
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HealTheLand

Active member
Did God decree the crucifixion? If so, then those who crucified Jesus did what God decreed would happen. Yet, they ....

those who love the things of the world the love of the Father - is not in them.


friendship towards the World - is hatred towards - God (Christ /Spirit/ Light).
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
I admit that by the will of God all the sons of Adam fell into that state of wretchedness in which they are now involved; and this is just what I said at the first, that we must always return to the mere pleasure of the divine will, the cause of which is hidden in himself

So, is God's will knowable to believers or not?

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).

. If God merely foresaw human events, and did not also arrange and dispose of them at his pleasure, there might be room for agitating the question, how far his foreknowledge amounts to necessity; but since he foresees the things which are to happen, simply because he has decreed that they are so to happen, it is vain to debate about prescience, while it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).

They deny that it is ever said in distinct terms, God decreed that Adam should perish by his revolt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Nor ought it to seem absurd when I say, that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it
John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).

how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permission…It is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of them…Who does not tremble at these judgments with which God works in the hearts of even the wicked whatever He will, rewarding them nonetheless according to desert?

John Calvin, “The Eternal Predestination of God,

If evil comes from not following God, then evil couldn't have come from God.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
many papers on this topic exist to confirm my point, and these papers can be accessed by anyone on jstor. each can study if they care too, and anyone can get 100 free papers to read a month. i won’t cite as that’s time-consuming and won’t change anyone’s mind anyway.

but essentially occasionalism resulted from a type of cartesian dualism in which causality (in obedience to greek ontology not a christian one) can only arise in substance; whereas material things, such as these bodies, are but accidents and can cause nothing. (early in roman theology God was associated to greek substance and greek causality, i.e. the ugly greek ‘prime mover’ ‘god’.)

this view, occasionalism, is ultimately derived from greek dualism. it got into the philosophies of calvin and others through a long chain of greek-minded types such as augustine and descartes and other philosophers and theologians.

sad, but modern christian theology is saturated with the greek pagan mindset.

do search jstor for dualism + theology + occasionalism. the conclusion I have drawn is highly documented.
 
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e v e 21

Well-known member
in which case they were commanded to sin and obeyed their god.. but it was not God.

The mormons believe the same. That adam and eve obeyed ‘god’ and the fall was his scheme. that adam was as christ when he ‘obeyed god’ by falling.


God does no evil , and causes no evil…

the satanic realm with its good and evil tree does that.

not God.

interesting that mormons who follow satanic fallen angels (=same greek gods) believe, wrongly, the fall was their god’s plan and adam was obeying ’god.’

same belief as the idea that those who crucified Christ were obeying ’god.’

no.

horrible pagan ideas.
 
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e v e 21

Well-known member
divisions. in Christ there - is Wholeness


falling from wholeness causes divisions

divisions of mind, heart, body... diseases


James 1:17 - Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

every good gift is at the best - of Wholeness -

but maybe levels thereof


no variableness, no shadows -- of unknowing or Incompleteness - whole. without divisions


John 12:25 - He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.


will lose all the division(s) - in one's self (through Christ - wholeness - completeness) -

keeps all commands/laws - due to


Wholeness of mind, body, spirit - no divisions any more

if/when (a process - not instant or even of wholeness
and completeness instant possible) living for Christ.


Amplified Bible
But I urge you, believers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in full agreement in what you say, and that there be no divisions or factions among you, but that you be perfectly united in your way of thinking and in your judgment [about matters of the faith].

no longer only - sees in PART -


divisions of mind(s) - begins to see much more in whole -

everything illuminated for such - for God is Light and there is no darkness -

in such a person - anymore - if/when/as/the more - wholeness - and completeness -


is brought about (with the Spirit's help) - in one's self.
divisions…


we got separated from our original glorified body
after the fall, because of adam.

we got separated from God
who walked and talked with man
and ended up on this corrupt earth,
separated from the paradise He created for us
and declared Good.

that is all still true.
 

Predestined

Well-known member
I agree. So, how then is it revealed to believers?



Some who call themselves believers don't know how God is God, this too stems from unbelief.
The Word Brings Salvation
Rom. 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14How then can they call on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”…

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
(Romans 1:20 NIV)


 

Dizerner

Well-known member
It's just a question. I want to check it out before I join. I have no clue how he can Crowd-Control without suspending anyone...

It's not "just a question."

It would be like me saying "Would your wife consider you abusive?" as just a question—the question has implications.

There's no other reason to ask the question unless you thought my post did something wrong, and I was perfectly polite in it.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Dizerner said:
Sounds bloodthirsty for banning someone unjustly.

God will hold you to account for all these unjust reports, and every other abuser on this forum, unless you repent.

No wonder I've been banned unjustly on here every other week for things Calvinist are constantly doing themselves.

you have been banned that often?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Yes.

I was once banned 2 months for saying civic was not acting in love.

Ironically, civic is getting banned with me now, lol.
Civic, Chalcedon it seems is getting a vacation almost every other day

but you got 2 months for saying someone was not acting in love?
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
divisions…


we got separated from our original glorified body
after the fall, because of adam.

we got separated from God
who walked and talked with man
and ended up on this corrupt earth,
separated from the paradise He created for us
and declared Good.

that is all still true.
some try to say that unless man sinned
by eating the satanic fruit
would not have been born many..

paradise doesnt have animal procreation as on this earth humans do
but
not true that souls could not be born
they just will not be born by sin nature…
 
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