Many of bad liberals and some lgbt actions are evil

[froggy]

Salvation cannot come with out the work of the Holy Spirit. Even the poor hammer tactics work when the Holy Spirit moves the hearts of men women and children. I take no credit for anyone's salvation. I am just a lowly vessel that the lord chose to use.

 

[shnarkle]

The good news is about more than salvation. It is about the renewing of the mind and with that comes a much better life. Hope that helps to clarify

I guess I see that as synonymous with salvation. When one is aware that they're saved, their mind is renewed. It is only the renewed mind that can know it is saved. The carnal mind has no clue. The carnal mind can assume, believe, profess, etc. that it's saved, but it clearly isn't.

 

[froggy]

I guess I see that as synonymous with salvation. When one is aware that they're saved, their mind is renewed. It is only the renewed mind that can know it is saved. The carnal mind has no clue. The carnal mind can assume, believe, profess, etc. that it's saved, but it clearly isn't.

Sanctification takes on many forms. When you are saved, you are set apart. As you walk in the light with Christ you see more about your life that needs to change. and the more you become Christlike.

Blessing in Christ

John

 

[john james]

What crimes or sins had those unborn babies committed that an allegedly "just" and "loving" God killed them before they were born?

Is it "just" to kill those who are innocent? Is it "loving" to drown pregnant women, thus killing their unborn children?

Your God is not one I wish to follow.

The Bible nor history says any of the people were pregnant before the flood came so that seems to be an assumption used to make God seem unjust. It is possible some were pregnant and it is possible none were pregnant. When God makes decisions and judgements they are just no matter what the finite being (us) who doesn't know everything thinks. To use that argument is like saying because God did it, we can abort babies. That is not how righteousness works. But that is how some just wanting to do what they want to do works. They try to justify their wrong by discreting someone else or saying if they can do it, i can. I'm sorry. That doesn’t work with God. Just because one of His followers can't explain things correctly doesn't make it okay. God judges us not us judging Him. The Bible is for us to get to know Him and ourselves. We cant judge Him with it because we don't know everything and because God determines what is right and because He is sovereign.


The things in the OP are still evil. These things affect everyone and they affect laws which affect everyone.

 

[4Him]

And yet we have more than a few examples of Jesus not only healing people but forgiving them their sins without any reference to them asking for forgiveness. See above, and the invalid lowered down through the roof, etc.

The invalid lowered through the roof had faith....

And again He entered Capernaum after some days, and it was heard that He was in the house. 2 [a]Immediately many gathered together, so that there was no longer room to receive them, not even near the door. And He preached the word to them. 3 Then they came to Him, bringing a paralytic who was carried by four men. 4 And when they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying.

5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

"Their" is collective, not excluding the invalid.

Telling someone to stop sinning isn't revealing the sin at all. smh.

No one said it was.

Jesus not only doesn't scrutinize her sin, but points out that not only are her accusers nowhere to be found, but he also will not condemn here either. He can't condemn her without judging her. He didn't judge her, and we shouldn't either.

Go and SIN no more....He indeed pointed out her sin.

When a prostitute weeps at his feet, everyone is scandalized, but Jesus makes no mention of her sin at all. She sees her sin all too well, and this was in no way due to anyone pointing this out to her. She knew it was wrong from the beginning. Spotlighting that fact isn't going to advance the gospel in any meaningful way whatsoever.

Her repentance was seen. So should we just assume all sinners are the same?

 

[froggy]

The Bible nor history says any of the people were pregnant before the flood came so that seems to be an assumption used to make God seem unjust. It is possible some were pregnant and it is possible none were pregnant. When God makes decisions and judgements they are just no matter what the finite being (us) who doesn't know everything thinks. To use that argument is like saying because God did it, we can abort babies. That is not how righteousness works. But that is how some just wanting to do what they want to do works. They try to justify their wrong by discreting someone else or saying if they can do it, i can. I'm sorry. That doesn’t work with God. Just because one of His followers can't explain things correctly doesn't make it okay. God judges us not us judging Him. The Bible is for us to get to know Him and ourselves. We cant judge Him with it because we don't know everything and because God determines what is right and because He is sovereign.


The things in the OP are still evil. These things affect everyone and they affect laws which affect everyone.

What are the odds that women were pregnant at that point in time? They were living their lives and I would bet the farm that there were pregnat women caught in the flood

 

[4Him]

How many people have you led to Christ using your approach?

Hopefully many...only God knows if anyone's repentance is true. I don't keep track, nor do I remember reading about any apostle keeping track.

 

[froggy]

Hopefully many...only God knows if anyone's repentance is true. I don't keep track, nor do I remember reading about any apostle keeping track.

That is fair. Actually we do not lead them to Christ, it is the Holy Spirit through us.

 

[Backup]

As a Christian , your first responsibility is to clean up your own back yard. Do you feel it is your responsibility to point out other peoples flaws when you have many of your own? Christ did not condemn people for their life styles. He loved them into the Kingdom. I thin you are missing a major point here.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Telling people that they are sinners fixes nothing.

Yeah, Christians would make a lot more progress being examples, rather than busy bodies.

 

[froggy]

Yeah, Christians would make a lot more progress being examples, rather than busy bodies.

I agree! people respond well to kindness and the Holy Spirit has led me through kindness. There is nothing like the love of Christ in this life. Absolutely nothing

 

[rossum]

The Bible nor history says any of the people were pregnant before the flood came so that seems to be an assumption used to make God seem unjust.

False. History shows that at any time in the history of the last 20,000 years more than 0% of human females were pregnant. Your claim here is patently ridiculous.

When God makes decisions and judgements they are just no matter what the finite being (us) who doesn't know everything thinks.

Thank you for confirming that you do not follow an absolute morality, rather that you follow a contingent morality. Your morality is contingent on whether God is killing the unborn or humans are doing the killing.

We cant judge Him with it because we don't know everything and because God determines what is right and because He is sovereign.

At least you are not hiding that fact that you are following a "might makes right" morality, with God having the might. As I said, you are only confirming that this is not a God I want to follow.

 

[J regia]

The Bible nor history says any of the people were pregnant before the flood came so that seems to be an assumption used to make God seem unjust. It is possible some were pregnant and it is possible none were pregnant. When God makes decisions and judgements they are just no matter what the finite being (us) who doesn't know everything thinks. To use that argument is like saying because God did it, we can abort babies. That is not how righteousness works. But that is how some just wanting to do what they want to do works. They try to justify their wrong by discreting someone else or saying if they can do it, i can. I'm sorry. That doesn’t work with God. Just because one of His followers can't explain things correctly doesn't make it okay. God judges us not us judging Him. The Bible is for us to get to know Him and ourselves. We cant judge Him with it because we don't know everything and because God determines what is right and because He is sovereign.


The things in the OP are still evil. These things affect everyone and they affect laws which affect everyone.

Even though the bible says that Noah's brothers (Jabal & Jubal) and their families weren't drowned (Gen 4:20-21) with the rest of Noah's family (Gen 5:26-32), where does the bible say that his pregnant sisters and his pregnant daughters weren't drowned too?

 

[froggy]

Thank you for confirming that you do not follow an absolute morality, rather that you follow a contingent morality. Your morality is contingent on whether God is killing the unborn or humans are doing the killing.


I know that this is not my discussion but I thought I might interject here. After the fall in the Garden humanity lost the ability to know the difference between right and wrong. What we may think (In our fallen condition) may be far from what is right. Christians are just as fallen as non Believers when it comes to perfect knowledge. No one really knows clearly what is right and wrong. I will never question the actions of God even when I do not like what I see happening. Tornadoes , Hurricanes, cancer, aids, and many other events that I do not understand are in the hands of God. All I can do is trust Him with all my heart and lean not on my own understanding

Blessings in Christ

 

[shnarkle]

The invalid lowered through the roof had faith....

No. He had friends who had faith. The faith that resided within his friends is what enabled them to lower him into the room.

"Their" is collective, not excluding the invalid.

The invalid is along for the ride only. He cannot exercise faith due to the fact that he's paralyzed.

No one said it was.

Yes, you most certainly did. You did it in this post as well.

Go and SIN no more....He indeed pointed out her sin.

Where? Nowhere does he point out what her sin was.

Her repentance was seen.

Yes, and it most importantly, it was seen by her. Jesus doesn't really need to see it to begin with. He's not there to judge anyone. He's there to save, and that doesn't require judging anyone. Everyone is a born sinner. That's a given. There is no need to repeatedly point this out. One only need point out the solution which is the gospel message itself.

So should we just assume all sinners are the same?

Judging them will most likely not give us the necessary result due to the fact that it doesn't matter if you see their sin. What matters is that they see it. More importantly, even if they do see their sin, now all that they can do is know that they're damned. That doesn't help anyone either.

You keep neglecting the gospel. That's what saves people, not pointing to sin. You're presenting the ailment without presenting the cure. Doctors who point out that their patients have been bitten by venomous snakes will not be in business for long if they can't supply them with the antidote.

This can't be overstated enough. Sadly, people would rather obsess over sin than proclaim the gospel.

 

[4Him]

No. He had friends who had faith. The faith that resided within his friends is what enabled them to lower him into the room.

Nope...

And again He entered Capernaum after some days, and it was heard that He was in the house. 2 [a]Immediately many gathered together, so that there was no longer room to receive them, not even near the door. And He preached the word to them. 3 Then they came to Him, bringing a paralytic who was carried by four men. 4 And when they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying.

5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

THEIR is collective....why are you dismissing this and suggesting the paralytic had no faith...scripture doesn't even imply that.

The invalid is along for the ride only. He cannot exercise faith due to the fact that he's paralyzed.

LOL! So every person that is an invalid cannot have faith?

Yes, you most certainly did.

Not at all.

Where? Nowhere does he point out what her sin was.

She was about to be stoned to death for adultery and you think Jesus needed to point out her sin? Do you even hear yourself?

Yes, and it most importantly, it was seen by her.

Our repentance isn't 'seen' it is DONE.

Jesus doesn't really need to see it to begin with.

No kidding.

He's not there to judge anyone.

Oh, He's definitely doing the judging.

He's there to save, and that doesn't require judging anyone. Everyone is a born sinner. That's a given. There is no need to repeatedly point this out. One only need point out the solution which is the gospel message itself.

You can't tell someone they need to repent without telling them why, and the why is because of sin.

Judging them will most likely not give us the necessary result due to the fact that it doesn't matter if you see their sin. What matters is that they see it.

They may never see it if they aren't told.

More importantly, even if they do see their sin, now all that they can do is know that they're damned. That doesn't help anyone either.

No, if they do see their sin, they may indeed see the need to repent as to not be damned.

You keep neglecting the gospel.

Not even remotely.

This can't be overstated enough. Sadly, people would rather obsess over sin than proclaim the gospel. Doctors who point out that their patients have been bitten by venomous snakes will not be in business for long if they can't supply them with the antidote.

You can't proclaim the Gospel without proclaiming why it is needed.....which is because of sin.

Hard to cure any patient if they don't think they are sick.

 

[shnarkle]

Nope...

Yep, and repeating yourself doesn't advance the discussion in the slightest.

THEIR is collective....why are you dismissing this and suggesting the paralytic had no faith...scripture doesn't even imply that.

It explicitly points out that we're looking at a paralytic! How much clearer could it be???

LOL! So every person that is an invalid cannot have faith?

Every person Period. The faith of a mustard seed can move mountains, and that faith can come from nowhere else than from Christ himself. As Paul points out it is "the faith OF Christ"; "By grace through faith and that NOT OF YOURSELVES...ETC." Not of yourselves is a clear indication that it is not your faith, but Christ's faith. There is nothing we can do. We're just like that paralytic who must rely upon the faith OF Christ to heal us.

She was about to be stoned to death for adultery and you think Jesus needed to point out her sin?

Of course not! Now you're making my points for me. LOL. Well at least you've finally seen the light, and conceded the point.

Our repentance isn't 'seen' it is DONE.

Sure, but tell that to the paralytic because he sees the faith of his friends, yet he can't exercise any faith at all. That's exactly what the gospel message is all about. The carnal man CANNOT please God. The carnal man is no different than a paralytic, and can do nothing. All of these stories are saying essentially the same thing, i.e. the faith of Christ is is what enables all of this to take place. Lazarus is dead. He can't do anything because dead people can't do squat. They're dead!

No kidding.

Again, you're conceding my point.

Oh, He's definitely doing the judging

He's definitely pointing out that he will not be condemning her which is right in line with his claim that he didn't come to judge in the first place. If he didn't come to judge, then he didn't come to condemn.

You can't tell someone they need to repent without telling them why,

There's no point in telling someone they need to repent if you can't proclaim the gospel message.

They may never see it if they aren't told.

Again, so what? Telling them they're sinners doesn't do squat if you're not proclaiming the gospel message. You're quite obviously not proclaiming the gospel message so this point is most definitely relevant to your position.

No, if they do see their sin, they may indeed see the need to repent as to not be damned.

False. Even those who can see that they're sinners can't repent without being given the gift of repentance first. God does not give anyone the gift unless they're ready to see their depravity which only he can reveal to them. You can't even tell anyone why what they're doing is wrong. You just boldly tell people that they're sinners. This doesn't solve the problem. It barely even addresses it. There is no point in bothering if the gospel message isn't being proclaimed to begin with.

Not even remotely.

Please prove me wrong. I don't see anywhere in any of your posts so far where you've presented the gospel. Please not also that the gospel message got Jesus crucified, and his direct followers executed as well. So we're not looking for your thumbnail Cliff's Note's sketch of the gospel. We're not looking for some reference to the gospel. We're looking for the unadulterated gospel.

You can't proclaim the Gospel without proclaiming why it is needed.....which is because of sin.

Again, that's a Given. Going into any detail is pointless if they don't have the ears to hear the gospel. More importantly, if even if they do have the ears to hear it, they're still damned if there's no one there to proclaim the gospel message to them.

 

[shnarkle]

Yep, and repeating yourself doesn't advance the discussion in the slightest.

It explicitly points out that we're looking at a paralytic! How much clearer could it be???

Every person Period. The faith of a mustard seed can move mountains, and that faith can come from nowhere else than from Christ himself. As Paul points out it is "the faith OF Christ"; "By grace through faith and that NOT OF YOURSELVES...ETC." Not of yourselves is a clear indication that it is not your faith, but Christ's faith. There is nothing we can do. We're just like that paralytic who must rely upon the faith OF Christ to heal us.

Of course not! Now you're making my points for me. LOL. Well at least you've finally seen the light, and conceded the point.

Sure, but tell that to the paralytic because he sees the faith of his friends, yet he can't exercise any faith at all. That's exactly what the gospel message is all about. The carnal man CANNOT please God. The carnal man is no different than a paralytic, and can do nothing. All of these stories are saying essentially the same thing, i.e. the faith of Christ is is what enables all of this to take place. Lazarus is dead. He can't do anything because dead people can't do squat. They're dead!

Again, you're conceding my point.

He's definitely pointing out that he will not be condemning her which is right in line with his claim that he didn't come to judge in the first place. If he didn't come to judge, then he didn't come to condemn.

There's no point in telling someone they need to repent if you can't proclaim the gospel message.

Again, so what? Telling them they're sinners doesn't do squat if you're not proclaiming the gospel message. You're quite obviously not proclaiming the gospel message so this point is most definitely relevant to your position.

False. Even those who can see that they're sinners can't repent without being given the gift of repentance first. God does not give anyone the gift unless they're ready to see their depravity which only he can reveal to them. You can't even tell anyone why what they're doing is wrong. You just boldly tell people that they're sinners. This doesn't solve the problem. It barely even addresses it. There is no point in bothering if the gospel message isn't being proclaimed to begin with.

Please prove me wrong. I don't see anywhere in any of your posts so far where you've presented the gospel. Please not also that the gospel message got Jesus crucified, and his direct followers executed as well. So we're not looking for your thumbnail Cliff's Note's sketch of the gospel. We're not looking for some reference to the gospel. We're looking for the unadulterated gospel.

Again, that's a Given. Going into any detail is pointless if they don't have the ears to hear the gospel. More importantly, if even if they do have the ears to hear it, they're still damned if there's no one there to proclaim the gospel message to them.

I can prove my point with one pertinent example: Do you follow the dietary laws? If not, then you're a sinner, and need to repent immediately. Do you wear clothing with mixed fibers? Ditto. This is your position. Do you see how this isn't exactly going to inspire you to repent? Do you see how you're probably just going to exercise some defense instead?

 

[4Him]

Yep, and repeating yourself doesn't advance the discussion in the slightest.

Then don't do it.

It explicitly points out that we're looking at a paralytic! How much clearer could it be???

Yes, and Jesus points out THEIR faith....YOU are assuming the paralytic had none. That's called eisegesis.

Every person Period. The faith of a mustard seed can move mountains, and that faith can come from nowhere else than from Christ himself. As Paul points out it is "the faith OF Christ"; "By grace through faith and that NOT OF YOURSELVES...ETC." Not of yourselves is a clear indication that it is not your faith, but Christ's faith. There is nothing we can do. We're just like that paralytic who must rely upon the faith OF Christ to heal us.

Irrelevant to my question.

Of course not! Now you're making my points for me. LOL. Well at least you've finally seen the light, and conceded the point.

There was no point to concede....Jesus DID point out her sin....Stevie wonder could see what it was.

Sure, but tell that to the paralytic because he sees the faith of his friends, yet he can't exercise any faith at all.

Not even remotely true.

Again, you're conceding my point.

It was never argued against, so again, you made no point to concede.

He's definitely pointing out that he will not be condemning her

As long as she goes and sins no more...

which is right in line with his claim that he didn't come to judge in the first place. If he didn't come to judge, then he didn't come to condemn.

Yet He does....

Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

There's no point in telling someone they need to repent if you can't proclaim the gospel message.

Who said you can't proclaim the Gospel message?

Again, so what?

So what? Seriously?

Telling them they're sinners doesn't do squat if you're not proclaiming the gospel message.

You are assuming the gospel isn't being preaches along with the reason they need to repent....your mistake.

You're quite obviously not proclaiming the gospel message so this point is most definitely relevant to your position.

Nonsense that isn't even remotely true.

False. Even those who can see that they're sinners can't repent without being given the gift of repentance first.

No one said otherwise.....my goodness, you must be exhausted from all that conclusion jumping you're doing.

You can't even tell anyone why what they're doing is wrong.

Why not?

Please prove me wrong. I don't see anywhere in any of your posts so far where you've presented the gospel.

You may want to go back and re read the posts.....this is about evangelizing the lost, not about preaching on a discussion board.

Again, that's a Given.

Then why are you arguing against it....

 

[froggy]

Then don't do it.


Yes, and Jesus points out THEIR faith....YOU are assuming the paralytic had none. That's called eisegesis.


Irrelevant to my question.


There was no point to concede....Jesus DID point out her sin....Stevie wonder could see what it was.


Not even remotely true.


It was never argued against, so again, you made no point to concede.


As long as she goes and sins no more...


Yet He does....

Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”



Who said you can't proclaim the Gospel message?


So what? Seriously?


You are assuming the gospel isn't being preaches along with the reason they need to repent....your mistake.


Nonsense that isn't even remotely true.


No one said otherwise.....my goodness, you must be exhausted from all that conclusion jumping you're doing.


Why not?


You may want to go back and re read the posts.....this is about evangelizing the lost, not about preaching on a discussion board.


Then why are you arguing against it....

When Saul was walking the road to Damascus did he have faith? Absolutely Not

 

[4Him]

When Saul was walking the road to Damascus did he have faith? Absolutely Not

Who said he did?