Matthew 23:13

[TomFL]

Manfred,

With all due respect, the inspired scriptures say he was, so it was God who calls him blameless, upright, and revering God, i.e., righteous! I am accustomed to believing his assessment over any other voice or opinion.

Doug

Indeed scripture calls many righteous

Able - Hebrews 11:4; 1 John 3:12

Lot - 2 Peter 2:7

Noah - Genesis 6:9; 7:1

Job - Job 1:1; 34:5

Abraham - Galatians 3:6

Lydia - Acts 16:14

Cornelius - Acts 10:22

Zechariah - Luke 1:5-6

Elizabeth - Luke 1:5-6

Joseph Matthew 1:19; Luke 23:50

Simeon Luke 2:25

Enoch Hebrews 11:5

 

[Manfred]

Manfred,

With all due respect, the inspired scriptures say he was, so it was God who calls him blameless, upright, and revering God, i.e., righteous! I am accustomed to believing his assessment over any other voice or opinion.

Doug

Thanks Doug. Interesting to know that some here think anybody can come to the Father except through Jesus Christ.

 

[TibiasDad]

Thanks Doug. Interesting to know that some here think anybody can come to the Father except through Jesus Christ.

I did not say that..

Doug

 

[Manfred]

I did not say that..

Doug

Then please explain what righteousness they had that was sufficient.

 

[TibiasDad]

Then please explain what righteousness they had that was sufficient.

The same righteousness that was found in Abraham, righteousness that comes by faith. Just open the book of Romans...you can't miss it! Everything in scripture is based on the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Those who hear God's voice and believe, accept what God has revealed to them by faith, whether before or after the actual death of Christ, are counted as righteous by God, just as Abraham was. That has always been the standard for God's economy and people.

Cornelius and Lydia were already faith believers in God, being obedient to what he had revealed to them at that point in time. They were righteous at that point, but would need to be obedient to the revelation of Christ as Savior and Lord, which is what they did!

Doug

 

[ReverendRV]

The same righteousness that was found in Abraham, righteousness that comes by faith. Just open the book of Romans...you can't miss it! Everything in scripture is based on the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Those who hear God's voice and believe, accept what God has revealed to them by faith, whether before or after the actual death of Christ, are counted as righteous by God, just as Abraham was. That has always been the standard for God's economy and people.

Cornelius and Lydia were already faith believers in God, being obedient to what he had revealed to them at that point in time. They were righteous at that point, but would need to be obedient to the revelation of Christ as Savior and Lord, which is what they did!

Doug

But Grace came first, right?

 

[TibiasDad]

But Grace came first, right?

Always!

Doug

 

[Manfred]

The same righteousness that was found in Abraham, righteousness that comes by faith. Just open the book of Romans...you can't miss it! Everything in scripture is based on the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.

Cornelius was declared righteous prior to his re-birth experience.
Without Him having faith in Christ. You are saying He would have been saved anyway the way Abraham was saved. By faith in Christ that he (Cornelius) did not have until it was preached to him by Peter.

I think this fits with Cornelius much better:
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

 

[TibiasDad]

Cornelius was declared righteous prior to his re-birth experience.
Without Him having faith in Christ. You are saying He would have been saved anyway the way Abraham was saved. By faith in Christ that he (Cornelius) did not have until it was preached to him by Peter.

I am saying that prior to hearing about Christ, if Cornelius had died, he would have been in heaven because he demonstrated that he believed what God had revealed to him at that point in his life. If he had rejected the message of Christ then that would change the outcome of his life. But he didn't rejected it, and so the righteousness that is by faith reached it's full result.

Abraham was saved by believing what God told him, period! We are all saved by believing in what God has revealed to us, period!

Doug