Matthew 5:22 Refers to Hell On Earth

Hark

Well-known member
Nothing to do with Rome being the new Bab.
Babylon that was prophesied to sit on 7 hills is Rome as the mystery Babylon but a people that come together of many different languages to be one people and one nation is the daughter of Babylon serving mystery Babylon; the Illuminati at the Vatican; the black Pope, the Jesuit General..
yes, it does. The old babylon is gone. (saddam Hussein tried to rebuild it after God said it's never be inhabited again, & look what happened to him & 2 of his sons!
Then explain Revelation 18th chapter.

Revelation 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: 12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. 14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

Does that describe Rome as the center of trade? No, it does not. It is Babylon USA.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! 19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. 20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. 21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Can you say that merchants by the sea & kings of nations has been made rich by Babylon of Rome when Rome? Does Rome give billions of dollars as aid to nations or doesn't the USA is known for that sharing of riches? Fat chance for Rome to give away any of her riches.

Can you explain how the voice of the bride and bridegroom can no longer be heard in her any more as if this destruction was after the rapture? have you known Rome to be preaching the bride and bridegroom in getting believers ready for the rapture? So "no" there also.

I know what you mean because Rome is described in Revelation 17th chapter but that was in reference to her forehead, but this great whore USA sits on many waters. Italy only sits on the gulf of the Mediterranean = one water.

Revelation 17:1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Ever noticed how the USA government acknowledges the martyrdom of Christians in foreign countries & yet does nothing about it? Think Illuminati and you see how that can relate to the forehead of the Vatican, the Mother of harlots.

If you discern after the fall of USA Babylon, then you see the coming new world order as described serving the NWO run by the Illuminati.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
 

Hark

Well-known member
The 3rd heaven includes the whole spirit world.
Regardless, Paul was talking about the apostle John for how he was inspired to write the Book of Revelations as John was caught up into Paradise.. as in upward is the direction to the third heavens which is God's throne where Paradise is now located.
 

Hark

Well-known member
All the Jews knew what the earthly gehenna was-Jerusalem's garbage dump, always kept ablaze to kill the odor. Everything from dung to the bodies of criminals was dumped into it, along with combustibles. Jesus used that term to symbolize the LOF, as it will be the "garbage dump" for the devil & his angels, the beast & false prophet, & the souls of the lost. Just as He sometimes called Jerusalem "Sodom & Egypt", He called the LOF 'gehenna' so the Jews would know the LOF is not a nice place.
Once again.. address Matthew 5:22-26 in regards to the use of the term "brother" and paraphrasing paying debt in full to get out of prison when no one is coming out of the lake of fire.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Jesus used the same term "brother" and how they will not get out of prison till debt is paid in full in Matthew 18:21-35 in that very same Book of Matthew.

Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

That is why there is a Gehenna on earth where if saved believers do not forgive their brother their trespasses, the Heavenly Father will not forgive them and they wind up being left behind when that fiery calamity comes on the earth; hence Gehenna.

There will be no grudges when all believers abiding in Him are taken up to the Marriage Supper in Heaven at the rapture event.

Think of it as excommunication rather than judging them as not saved because they are still His, but shall be resurrected later on.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Babylon that was prophesied to sit on 7 hills is Rome as the mystery Babylon but a people that come together of many different languages to be one people and one nation is the daughter of Babylon serving mystery Babylon; the Illuminati at the Vatican; the black Pope, the Jesuit General..
"Mystery, babylon" was the religion started by Nimrod & Semiramis, complete with "queena hevvin", etc. It was taken up by babylon & kept evolving til the RCC took up a lot of its doctrines. They made Mary into the "queena hevvin" & a perpetual virgin as well as the intercessor between man & Jesus.
Then explain Revelation 18th chapter.

Revelation 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: 12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. 14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

Does that describe Rome as the center of trade? No, it does not. It is Babylon USA.
No; Rome was once the center of trade for that part of the world. And many kings of the earth have committed fornication with her(Practiced her false religion) from early kings of England & France, from the kings & queens of Spain, Portugal, Poland & Sweden, as well as the rulers of many nations ruled by those above. The popes once had a powerful military force that could've defeated those of many nations, & mighty rulers wouldn't make big decisions without consulting the pope. You should study some history. No one has ever kissed the USA's feet.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! 19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. 20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. 21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Can you say that merchants by the sea & kings of nations has been made rich by Babylon of Rome when Rome? Does Rome give billions of dollars as aid to nations or doesn't the USA is known for that sharing of riches? Fat chance for Rome to give away any of her riches.
The last sentence shoulda clued you in. No city in the USA has been known as a killer of prophets & saints, while Rome had a long history of it at that time, & it continued for hundreds of years afterwards. No other city but Jerusalem even comes close, & we know God's not going to destroy J. How He shall destroy Rome, I don't know, but I DO know it's the new Bab. The old Bab is gone for good; it's just an archaeological site now.
Can you explain how the voice of the bride and bridegroom can no longer be heard in her any more as if this destruction was after the rapture? have you known Rome to be preaching the bride and bridegroom in getting believers ready for the rapture? So "no" there also.
The verses meant that it will be completely destroyed. Brides & bridegrooms are heard in every functioning city.
I know what you mean because Rome is described in Revelation 17th chapter but that was in reference to her forehead, but this great whore USA sits on many waters. Italy only sits on the gulf of the Mediterranean = one water.
The beast that the whore rides is the antichrist's empire. The RCC will TRY to ride(control) it, but will fail. In the 30s, many SDAs thought Hitler was the beast as he used the RC Reichstag delegates to pass the "Enabling Act", which gave him almost absolute power. He then turned on the RCC, confiscating their property, banning their orgs, arresting many of their clergy, etc.
Revelation 17:1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Ever noticed how the USA government acknowledges the martyrdom of Christians in foreign countries & yet does nothing about it? Think Illuminati and you see how that can relate to the forehead of the Vatican, the Mother of harlots.
You still don't see that a whore represents a false religion in symbolic Scripture, & fornication represents false worship. And as I said earlier, "mystery, Babylon" is the religion started by Nimrod & Semiramis, which Babylon adopted, & later, many Jews, who made cakes for the "queena hevvin" & wept for Tammuz, Nimrod's son.
If you discern after the fall of USA Babylon, then you see the coming new world order as described serving the NWO run by the Illuminati.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Of the 7 kings,(kingdoms) those which had already then fallen were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, & Greece. The one that then "is", was Rome. The 7th was the Holy Roman Empire, & the 8th will be the beast's empire, formed at first from many of the peoples of the two Roman empires. The 10 kings will be the rulers of 10 of the nations formerly part of Rome that'll give their power to the beast & be his vassals. According to Daniel, the beast will have to overthrow 3 of them. (He will then appoint who he wants in their places.)

And at that time, there was but ONE city that reigned over many kings of the earth, & later did so again after the cancer of the Vatican was established within her-ROME !
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Regardless, Paul was talking about the apostle John for how he was inspired to write the Book of Revelations as John was caught up into Paradise.. as in upward is the direction to the third heavens which is God's throne where Paradise is now located.
Paradise is in hades, wherever hades is.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Once again.. address Matthew 5:22-26 in regards to the use of the term "brother" and paraphrasing paying debt in full to get out of prison when no one is coming out of the lake of fire.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Hard to earn money while in prison. Often, debtors' prison was a life sentence unless someone stepped & paid one's debt. They sometimes did so in exchange for indentured servantship for a specified period.
Jesus used the same term "brother" and how they will not get out of prison till debt is paid in full in Matthew 18:21-35 in that very same Book of Matthew.

Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
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Nothing to do with "thou fool".

That is why there is a Gehenna on earth where if saved believers do not forgive their brother their trespasses, the Heavenly Father will not forgive them and they wind up being left behind when that fiery calamity comes on the earth; hence Gehenna.

There will be no grudges when all believers abiding in Him are taken up to the Marriage Supper in Heaven at the rapture event.

Think of it as excommunication rather than judging them as not saved because they are still His, but shall be resurrected later on.

There won't be any gehenna on earth save that which was outside Jerusalem.

You have several goofy man-made ideas which you should get rid of before they lead you completely off-course. I believe it all started with you when you became hooked on the false, man-made KJVO myth. (Can you show me any SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for the KJVO myth? Of course not!) Believing one false doctrine keeps a foot in the door for others to come in, & I think that's what happened to you.

I asked you to show us one instance where Jesus used the word gehenna to indicate anything other than the LOF, & you couldn't. I reminded you it was JESUS, not any mere man, who said calling a bro a fool would put one in danger of gehenna. But you keep trying to make something else outta what He said insteada simply believing Him! Friend, that's ADDING TO GOD'S WORD!

I shall keep praying for the HOLY SPIRIT to come & free your mind of this goofy and incorrect stuff. Now, if you want to keep using the KJV, fine, but you need to be rid of the false KJVO myth, that it's the ONLY valid English Bible translation, & that it's perfect, as both those points are false.
 

Hark

Well-known member
"Mystery, babylon" was the religion started by Nimrod & Semiramis, complete with "queena hevvin", etc. It was taken up by babylon & kept evolving til the RCC took up a lot of its doctrines. They made Mary into the "queena hevvin" & a perpetual virgin as well as the intercessor between man & Jesus.
Hardly a mystery then, when the Jews know this in regards to the historical Babylon. Mystery would apply to the Illuminati in how nations are taking their secret orders from the Jesuit General at the Vatican.
No; Rome was once the center of trade for that part of the world. And many kings of the earth have committed fornication with her(Practiced her false religion) from early kings of England & France, from the kings & queens of Spain, Portugal, Poland & Sweden, as well as the rulers of many nations ruled by those above. The popes once had a powerful military force that could've defeated those of many nations, & mighty rulers wouldn't make big decisions without consulting the pope. You should study some history. No one has ever kissed the USA's feet.
But Rome does not sit on many waters. USA does.
The last sentence shoulda clued you in. No city in the USA has been known as a killer of prophets & saints, while Rome had a long history of it at that time, & it continued for hundreds of years afterwards. No other city but Jerusalem even comes close, & we know God's not going to destroy J. How He shall destroy Rome, I don't know, but I DO know it's the new Bab. The old Bab is gone for good; it's just an archaeological site now.
Yet the city of Rome does not sit on many waters for why the merchants of the sea stand afar off from her burning and plagues. So it is a metaphor or symbolism of sort that cannot be applied to the actual city of Rome, now can it?
The verses meant that it will be completely destroyed. Brides & bridegrooms are heard in every functioning city.
The voice which is singular, is about the call to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and for the why it is ceased is because the doors to the Marriage Supper is shut now just before destruction of Babylon USA had come. Do note that Rome is not the center of trade now but USA.
The beast that the whore rides is the antichrist's empire. The RCC will TRY to ride(control) it, but will fail. In the 30s, many SDAs thought Hitler was the beast as he used the RC Reichstag delegates to pass the "Enabling Act", which gave him almost absolute power. He then turned on the RCC, confiscating their property, banning their orgs, arresting many of their clergy, etc.
I suspect that when its head is fatally wounded and gets heal symbolically is when the Vatican moves its headquarters to Jerusalem. I find it a bit "convenient" that Catholic prophesies has the Vatican to be destroyed per its connection to the current and last Pope per their views.
You still don't see that a whore represents a false religion in symbolic Scripture, & fornication represents false worship. And as I said earlier, "mystery, Babylon" is the religion started by Nimrod & Semiramis, which Babylon adopted, & later, many Jews, who made cakes for the "queena hevvin" & wept for Tammuz, Nimrod's son.
I see RCC as the source for that teaching of seeking gifts of the Holy Spirit by praying to the Holy Spirit for them as if the Holy Spirit can answer prayers instead of going before that throne of grace with that requests for gifts. This in turn brings a phenomenon for why their tongues is the pagan's world supernatural tongue that is gibberish nonsense. The RCC even had believed in the early days of the RCC that because they still spoke in tongues, that means as a sign or proof that they were keeping the doctrines within the Church when 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 tells us what the law & the prophets said tongues were and what for.. as of other men's lips to speak unto the people and not to be used as sign or proof to the believers personally about anything, but t serve as a sign to unbelievers.
Of the 7 kings,(kingdoms) those which had already then fallen were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, & Greece. The one that then "is", was Rome. The 7th was the Holy Roman Empire, & the 8th will be the beast's empire, formed at first from many of the peoples of the two Roman empires. The 10 kings will be the rulers of 10 of the nations formerly part of Rome that'll give their power to the beast & be his vassals. According to Daniel, the beast will have to overthrow 3 of them. (He will then appoint who he wants in their places.)

And at that time, there was but ONE city that reigned over many kings of the earth, & later did so again after the cancer of the Vatican was established within her-ROME !
There is a new world order coming; and USA along with the rest of the world talked about having Obama as a leader; not the Pope or the Vatican; hence mystery Babylon per the Illuminati. More than likely, no one will know the connection till the beast reveals himself in the Holy of Holies in the Third Temple that is coming after the rapture event to assure that when USA is gone, they will not attack Israel for a false peace.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Hardly a mystery then, when the Jews know this in regards to the historical Babylon. Mystery would apply to the Illuminati in how nations are taking their secret orders from the Jesuit General at the Vatican.
GOD called it 'mystery'. What the mystery is, I don't know unless it's the fact that many people don't know where a lot of the RCC practices came from.
But Rome does not sit on many waters. USA does.
In John's time, the Mediterranean was by far the most-important sea of that time to all the peoples mentioned in Scripture. From it, the Romans reached the British Isles & many places in Africa & Europe, as well as sailing thru the Strait of Gibraltar(gates of Hercules) to farther sites in Europe & Africa. The Med was a Roman pond for awhile.
Yet the city of Rome does not sit on many waters for why the merchants of the sea stand afar off from her burning and plagues. So it is a metaphor or symbolism of sort that cannot be applied to the actual city of Rome, now can it?
No, not at all. The Med is chock-full of shipping to this day. And the Suez Canal greatly enhances modern Rome's maritime teach.
The voice which is singular, is about the call to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and for the why it is ceased is because the doors to the Marriage Supper is shut now just before destruction of Babylon USA had come. Do note that Rome is not the center of trade now but USA.
I completely disagree, given God's blessings on the USA & her relationship with the Jews.
I suspect that when its head is fatally wounded and gets heal symbolically is when the Vatican moves its headquarters to Jerusalem. I find it a bit "convenient" that Catholic prophesies has the Vatican to be destroyed per its connection to the current and last Pope per their views.
No, the wound will be to one man, & the healing will be miraculous. Just imagine if JFK had recovered from the shot that took off 1/4 of his head! What a miracle that wo0ulda been! He coulda become ruler of the world!
I see RCC as the source for that teaching of seeking gifts of the Holy Spirit by praying to the Holy Spirit for them as if the Holy Spirit can answer prayers instead of going before that throne of grace with that requests for gifts. This in turn brings a phenomenon for why their tongues is the pagan's world supernatural tongue that is gibberish nonsense. The RCC even had believed in the early days of the RCC that because they still spoke in tongues, that means as a sign or proof that they were keeping the doctrines within the Church when 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 tells us what the law & the prophets said tongues were and what for.. as of other men's lips to speak unto the people and not to be used as sign or proof to the believers personally about anything, but t serve as a sign to unbelievers.
Today, the 'tongues' stuff is part of pentecostalism. Many branches of pentecostal is as false as most RCism.
There is a new world order coming; and USA along with the rest of the world talked about having Obama as a leader; not the Pope or the Vatican; hence mystery Babylon per the Illuminati. More than likely, no one will know the connection till the beast reveals himself in the Holy of Holies in the Third Temple that is coming after the rapture event to assure that when USA is gone, they will not attack Israel for a false peace.
Do you know anything about the Illuminati? They were founded in Bavaria by Prof. Adam Weishaupt(1748-1830) at the University of Ingolstadt in 1773. This school was then run largely by jeezits(jesuits). However, the group disassociated itself from the jeezits, but became embroiled in conflicts with the Rosicrucians & Freemasons. These arguments became more & more-public til, in 1785, Charles Theodore, Duke of Bavaria & de-facto ruler, banned all secret societies in Bavaria, including those mentioned above. This dispersed the Illuminati into much of Europe & their attempts to recruit new members in other lands spawned many of the tales about them.

Today, there are many imaginary groups calling themselves Illuminati, as well as several apocryphal tales about their planning world domination, etc. They're all horse feathers, as you'd find out if you dug a little deeper ino the TRUTH about them. You might as well chuck all those old wives' tales about them!

A group that DOES bear watching is the jeezits. They were once the military branch of the RCC, & I believe they'll be instrumental in helping the beast obtain power, wrongly believing they can control him. (He will turn on them & the RCC in general, as Hitler did, only it'll be worldwide, not just in Germany.)
 

Hark

Well-known member
GOD called it 'mystery'. What the mystery is, I don't know unless it's the fact that many people don't know where a lot of the RCC practices came from.
Since we prophesy in part & know in part, that can be one possibility. But can we know for sure? In this we should be open for wisdom from the Lord for He knows if He will use our iron sharpening iron in seeing the truth in His words for the answers we seek and confirm by Him.
In John's time, the Mediterranean was by far the most-important sea of that time to all the peoples mentioned in Scripture. From it, the Romans reached the British Isles & many places in Africa & Europe, as well as sailing thru the Strait of Gibraltar(gates of Hercules) to farther sites in Europe & Africa. The Med was a Roman pond for awhile.
Revelation 17:1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

The reason I see it as not referring to Rome was because the great whore sits upon many waters by whom the kings of the earth committed fornication. The Statue of Liberty was actually fashioned after Ishtar. The Great Whore of Babylon- Prophecy of the Statue of Liberty

So there is that.
No, not at all. The Med is chock-full of shipping to this day. And the Suez Canal greatly enhances modern Rome's maritime teach.
Would it not mean the city at the Suez Canal is mystery Babylon as one that sit on many waters?
I completely disagree, given God's blessings on the USA & her relationship with the Jews.
Given President Biden's current stance against Israel, I'd say USA is in jeopardy. Biden’s Policies Toward Israel Starkly Different From Trump’s, Experts Say


No, the wound will be to one man, & the healing will be miraculous. Just imagine if JFK had recovered from the shot that took off 1/4 of his head! What a miracle that wo0ulda been! He coulda become ruler of the world!
We shall see one way or another.
Today, the 'tongues' stuff is part of pentecostalism. Many branches of pentecostal is as false as most RCism.
Since its roots is in RCCism, is how the churches and nations are committing spiritual fornication and not just to the "Queen of Heaven" either.
Do you know anything about the Illuminati? They were founded in Bavaria by Prof. Adam Weishaupt(1748-1830) at the University of Ingolstadt in 1773. This school was then run largely by jeezits(jesuits). However, the group disassociated itself from the jeezits, but became embroiled in conflicts with the Rosicrucians & Freemasons. These arguments became more & more-public til, in 1785, Charles Theodore, Duke of Bavaria & de-facto ruler, banned all secret societies in Bavaria, including those mentioned above. This dispersed the Illuminati into much of Europe & their attempts to recruit new members in other lands spawned many of the tales about them.

Today, there are many imaginary groups calling themselves Illuminati, as well as several apocryphal tales about their planning world domination, etc. They're all horse feathers, as you'd find out if you dug a little deeper ino the TRUTH about them. You might as well chuck all those old wives' tales about them!
Thanks for the sharing some of the information, but just as we prophesy in part and know in part regardless of having the scripture available, I do wonder how much of it is really tales since by their Mason oath, they are not really allowed to tell anyone that they are Masons and that inside of that secret society is another secret society called the Illuminati. The Jesuits oath was found online at one time showing their cause is to sow chaos in society and even supplant themselves in the Protestant churches to bring them back into the fold. Even how the Baptist church discipline members within is about the same as the RCC does it, but not quite; the Baptists remove the offender from their post but they can stay in the church whereas the RCC just remove the offender to another post but still have his authority & position as they do with child molesters.
A group that DOES bear watching is the jeezits. They were once the military branch of the RCC, & I believe they'll be instrumental in helping the beast obtain power, wrongly believing they can control him. (He will turn on them & the RCC in general, as Hitler did, only it'll be worldwide, not just in Germany.)
I believe the RCC is the synagogue of Satan. Catholic priests have been reporting that Satanism is being practiced in the Vatican. FYI
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Since we prophesy in part & know in part, that can be one possibility. But can we know for sure? In this we should be open for wisdom from the Lord for He knows if He will use our iron sharpening iron in seeing the truth in His words for the answers we seek and confirm by Him.
The fact that "Babylon" ios in the title shows it's a false religion.
Revelation 17:1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

The reason I see it as not referring to Rome was because the great whore sits upon many waters by whom the kings of the earth committed fornication. The Statue of Liberty was actually fashioned after Ishtar. The Great Whore of Babylon- Prophecy of the Statue of Liberty

So there is that.
The great whore is the RCC, not the city itself. Remember, in Scriptural symbolism, a whore represents a false or apostate church, & fornication represents apostasy or idol worship. And a sea represents a people, so waters represents many peoples.The RCC sits upon many waters (peoples) with churches in almost every nation.
The "Statue of Liberty" stuff is nonsense.
Would it not mean the city at the Suez Canal is mystery Babylon as one that sit on many waters?
The major city near the canal is Port Said. And read above who sits mon many waters. (peoples)
Given President Biden's current stance against Israel, I'd say USA is in jeopardy. Biden’s Policies Toward Israel Starkly Different From Trump’s, Experts Say
There are still more Jews in our govt. than in anyone else's, including Israel's. Biden cannot break the USA from Israel.
We shall see one way or another.
Yes, we SHALL !
Since its roots is in RCCism, is how the churches and nations are committing spiritual fornication and not just to the "Queen of Heaven" either.

Thanks for the sharing some of the information, but just as we prophesy in part and know in part regardless of having the scripture available, I do wonder how much of it is really tales since by their Mason oath, they are not really allowed to tell anyone that they are Masons and that inside of that secret society is another secret society called the Illuminati. The Jesuits oath was found online at one time showing their cause is to sow chaos in society and even supplant themselves in the Protestant churches to bring them back into the fold. Even how the Baptist church discipline members within is about the same as the RCC does it, but not quite; the Baptists remove the offender from their post but they can stay in the church whereas the RCC just remove the offender to another post but still have his authority & position as they do with child molesters.

I believe the RCC is the synagogue of Satan. Catholic priests have been reporting that Satanism is being practiced in the Vatican. FYI

While I agree that the RCC is full of evil, the Illuminati stuff is more nonsense. There have been various secret societies since ancient times. They're mostly a hobby for their members.

My dad was a 32 degree mason, but when he was saved, he quietly drifted away from them, telling me some of their beliefs & policies clashed with Christian doctrine, but that's all he was gonna say, as his oath of secrecy still stood. I believe John Ankerberg's shows thoroughly exposed the masons.
 

Hark

Well-known member
The fact that "Babylon" ios in the title shows it's a false religion.

The great whore is the RCC, not the city itself. Remember, in Scriptural symbolism, a whore represents a false or apostate church, & fornication represents apostasy or idol worship. And a sea represents a people, so waters represents many peoples.The RCC sits upon many waters (peoples) with churches in almost every nation.
The "Statue of Liberty" stuff is nonsense.

The major city near the canal is Port Said. And read above who sits mon many waters. (peoples)

There are still more Jews in our govt. than in anyone else's, including Israel's. Biden cannot break the USA from Israel.

Yes, we SHALL !


While I agree that the RCC is full of evil, the Illuminati stuff is more nonsense. There have been various secret societies since ancient times. They're mostly a hobby for their members.

My dad was a 32 degree mason, but when he was saved, he quietly drifted away from them, telling me some of their beliefs & policies clashed with Christian doctrine, but that's all he was gonna say, as his oath of secrecy still stood. I believe John Ankerberg's shows thoroughly exposed the masons.
I am glad that the Lord led your dad away from Freemasonry.

Still awaiting how you can separate Matthew 5:22-26 from Matthew 18:21-35 as if Matthew 5:22-26 is not addressing saved believers when Jesus is.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
I am glad that the Lord led your dad away from Freemasonry.

Still awaiting how you can separate Matthew 5:22-26 from Matthew 18:21-35 as if Matthew 5:22-26 is not addressing saved believers when Jesus is.
I never said Jesus wasn't addressing believers. However, one can lose one's salvation by turning one's back upon Jesus. And again, 'twas JESUS who mentioned hell (gehenna) in Matt.5.

"OSAS" isn't correct. While JESUS will always do HIS part, man must do his as well, thinking of & worshipping God & living as a Christian should.

A sinner is awash in the ocean of his sins. If he prays mto Jesus & calls Him by name, & is sincere, Jesus will throw him a "life preserver" of salvation. But one must GRASP it & KEEP HOLD of it. If one does so, Jesus will "pull him to safety" thruout his life. But one MUST keep hold of the "preserver".
 

Hark

Well-known member
I never said Jesus wasn't addressing believers. However, one can lose one's salvation by turning one's back upon Jesus. And again, 'twas JESUS who mentioned hell (gehenna) in Matt.5.

"OSAS" isn't correct. While JESUS will always do HIS part, man must do his as well, thinking of & worshipping God & living as a Christian should.

A sinner is awash in the ocean of his sins. If he prays mto Jesus & calls Him by name, & is sincere, Jesus will throw him a "life preserver" of salvation. But one must GRASP it & KEEP HOLD of it. If one does so, Jesus will "pull him to safety" thruout his life. But one MUST keep hold of the "preserver".
OSAS is correct because He still abides in former believers. Former Believers Are Still Saved

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

There is no casting out of His hand nor kingdom, but there is a casting out as in being disqualified as a reprobate from attending the Marriage Supper in His honor in Heaven. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House as they will be resurrected after the great tribulation.

There is a call to depart from iniquity in looking to Him for help in running that race, but it is still done by faith & by the grace of God as our hope all rests in Jesus Christ but this is why He will finish His work even in those left behind.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Here are some Scriptures against OSAS...

Matt 7:21-23 • Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.
Matt 10:33 • Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.
Matt 13:18-23 • 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.
Matt 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 • Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.
Matt 25:44-46 • Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.
Mark 8:35-36 • Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.
Mark 9:43-48 • Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.
Mark 13:13 • But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally …
… also see Matt 10:22, Col 1:22-23, Heb 10:35-39, Rev 2:10.
Luke 9:23-25 • Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).
Luke 14:26-33 • Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple …
… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?
John 12:25 • He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.
John 15:1-6 • Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.
John 17:3 • Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?
Rom 1:29-32 • Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.
Rom 2:5-11 • Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.
Rom 6:15-23 • Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.
Rom 8:1-8 • Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.
Rom 8:12-13 • We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die (eternal death).
Rom 11:20-22 • Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.
1 Cor 6:9-10 • Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 15:2 • You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.
2 Cor 7:10 • Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.
2 Cor 13:5 • Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.
Gal 5:1-4 • Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law,
… have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.
Gal 5:19-21 • Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:24 • Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 6:7-8 • Do not be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.
Eph 5:3-6 • Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.
Eph 5:25-27 • Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.
Phil 2:12-16 • Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
… so that: (a) you may become blameless, and (b) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.
Col 1:21-29 • Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and
… “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
Col 3:5-6 • Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.
1 Tim 4:1 • Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.
1 Tim 5:11-15 • Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.
1 Tim 6:9-14 • Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition …
… Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).
1 Tim 6:17-19 • Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.
Titus 1:1-3 • Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.
Heb 2:1-4 • Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?
Heb 3:6 • We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
Heb 3:12-15 • Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened …
… through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.
Heb 3:17-19 • The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).
Heb 4:1 • Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).
Heb 4:11 • Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.
Heb 6:4-8 • Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.
Heb 10:26-27 • If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, we can expect God’s fiery judgment.
Heb 10:29-31 • The LORD will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.
Heb 10:35-39 • Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.
Heb 12:14-15 • Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.
Heb 12:15-17 • Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.
James 1:12-16 • Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin brings forth spiritual death.
1 Pet 1:8-9 • Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.
2 Pet 1:10-11 • Be diligent to make your call and election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.
2 Pet 2:20-22 • If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before …
… knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.
1 John 1:9 • If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2:3-5 • We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 John 2:24-25 • If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us …
… nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.
1 John 3:15 • If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.
Jude 1:20-21 • 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.
Rev 2:10 • Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life. See Mark 13:13 above.
Rev 2:11 • He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).
Rev 3:5 • He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.
Rev 21:8 • Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
Rev 21:27 • Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.
Rev 22:14 • Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.
Rev 22:15 • Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Here are some Scriptures against OSAS...

Matt 7:21-23 • Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.
Matt 10:33 • Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.
Matt 13:18-23 • 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.
Matt 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 • Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.
Matt 25:44-46 • Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.
Mark 8:35-36 • Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.
Mark 9:43-48 • Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.
Mark 13:13 • But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally …
… also see Matt 10:22, Col 1:22-23, Heb 10:35-39, Rev 2:10.
Luke 9:23-25 • Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).
Luke 14:26-33 • Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple …
… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?
John 12:25 • He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.
John 15:1-6 • Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.
John 17:3 • Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?
List is shortened because of post limit.
James 1:12-16 • Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin brings forth spiritual death.
1 Pet 1:8-9 • Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.
2 Pet 1:10-11 • Be diligent to make your call and election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.
2 Pet 2:20-22 • If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before …
… knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.
1 John 1:9 • If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2:3-5 • We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 John 2:24-25 • If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us …
… nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.
1 John 3:15 • If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.
Jude 1:20-21 • 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.
Rev 2:10 • Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life. See Mark 13:13 above.
Rev 2:11 • He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).
Rev 3:5 • He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.
Rev 21:8 • Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
Rev 21:27 • Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.
Rev 22:14 • Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.
Rev 22:15 • Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.
All of those scriptural references in your quote as listed, are not being rightly divided since they can not go against scripture below.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Even when addressing those that go astray and follow a stranger's voice are still His and thus still saved because they had believed in Him before going astray thus they are His sheep per John 10:26. That is why Jesus differentiate between 2 kinds of folds that believed in Him where one fold follows His voice and the other followed a stranger's voice, but yet that is why He MUST bring them because they are His other sheep not of the fold that followed His voice in John 10:16.

If you discern with Him those left behind and being resurrected as coming out of the great tribulation as they will actually and literally hear His voice as the King of kings to serve Him during His thousand year reign, then they are being made to be of the one fold & one Shepherd..

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

John 10:26 explains the why and hw in John 10:16

How do you apply your list of scriptural references with Him? For how God will judge His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) at the pre great trib rapture event when He appears as the Bridegroom as He is faithful to keep the souls of His saints left behind that will suffer the fiery calamity coming on the earth & the great tribulation afterwards.

If you consider that day being referred to in 1 Corinthians 3:13 for how they will incur a physical death per 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 so that their saved spirits will be present with the Lord in Heaven in 1 Corinthians 3:15, then you may discern what will happen to hose left behind that are His but have defiled the temple of God with iniquities which includes heresy that denies Him in some shape or form or fashion.

1 Corinthians 3:0 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

If you remember our confidence in Jesus Christ that He will finish His work in us for those that run that race as saved believers rather than deny Him that He is our Savior for we are saved, then He will finish His work even in those left behind that ran that race to obtain salvation rather than as saved believers. That foundation is not going anywhere because Jesus laid it and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere either.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
List is shortened because of post limit.

All of those scriptural references in your quote as listed, are not being rightly divided since they can not go against scripture below.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Even when addressing those that go astray and follow a stranger's voice are still His and thus still saved because they had believed in Him before going astray thus they are His sheep per John 10:26. That is why Jesus differentiate between 2 kinds of folds that believed in Him where one fold follows His voice and the other followed a stranger's voice, but yet that is why He MUST bring them because they are His other sheep not of the fold that followed His voice in John 10:16.

If you discern with Him those left behind and being resurrected as coming out of the great tribulation as they will actually and literally hear His voice as the King of kings to serve Him during His thousand year reign, then they are being made to be of the one fold & one Shepherd..

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

John 10:26 explains the why and hw in John 10:16

How do you apply your list of scriptural references with Him? For how God will judge His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) at the pre great trib rapture event when He appears as the Bridegroom as He is faithful to keep the souls of His saints left behind that will suffer the fiery calamity coming on the earth & the great tribulation afterwards.

If you consider that day being referred to in 1 Corinthians 3:13 for how they will incur a physical death per 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 so that their saved spirits will be present with the Lord in Heaven in 1 Corinthians 3:15, then you may discern what will happen to hose left behind that are His but have defiled the temple of God with iniquities which includes heresy that denies Him in some shape or form or fashion.

1 Corinthians 3:0 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

If you remember our confidence in Jesus Christ that He will finish His work in us for those that run that race as saved believers rather than deny Him that He is our Savior for we are saved, then He will finish His work even in those left behind that ran that race to obtain salvation rather than as saved believers. That foundation is not going anywhere because Jesus laid it and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere either.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
While Jesus will never discard a saint, a saint might discard Him. I personally know of such a person.

I knew this man in our younger days. He drank alcohol heavily, did dope, & cheated on his wife, among other things. However, he "had an epiphany", ceased his sinning, started attending church, professed salvation, was baptized, & "lived the life'. He spread the Gospel at every opportunity. To keep a long story short, he became a preacher, & founded a small church which he pastored. I heard him preach several times, & he was very good at it, going strictly by Scripture, which he often read in his sermons. His church grew to about 200 members. He lived modestly; he & his wife had no children. He often visited hospitals & the county jail.

Then, he began to have guest preachers conduct his services more & more-often. Soon, he stepped down as pastor. Shortly after that, he was busted for DUI & found to have a felony amount of dope on him, but was acquitted of conspiring to sell it & soon freed after paying a stiff fine. Soon after that, he left his wife, began frequenting known bawdy houses, drinking heavily & doping, sinning more than he did before. When I saw him, I asked him why he'd, turned his back on the Lord. He said it was all a fairy tale, same as Santa Claus, etc. & since he couldn't convince his wife of that, he left her. He said he was dedicated to the hedonistic lifestyle & felt sorry for me,as I was stuck in a dull existence with no fun in it. (He worked as a skilled cabinet maker.)

Shortly after, he died the "country star's death" of acute alcohol poisoning at a friend's party. I felt so bad for him, as I knew he'd forsaken God & died that way.

Now, unfortunately for him, I believe he had thrown away his salvation, as he began denying the existence of God, something I'd not known him to have done before he was saved.
 

Hark

Well-known member
While Jesus will never discard a saint, a saint might discard Him. I personally know of such a person.
Jesus said He will cut off and discard a saint when they are not abiding in Him as His disciple verse 6 of John 15:1-8 Jesus said He will cut off saved believers for not being found ready to be with the unbelievers on earth but yet He still calls the discarded saints His servants as they will be judged by stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready & lesser stripes per the knowledge they did not have for not being ready to face that fire as in that Gehenna that is coming on the earth per verse 49 in Luke 12:40-49

Proof that Paul understood this that Jesus could disqualify him was how there is more than the loss of rewards of crowns that was at risk, but being a castaway also.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So once again, it goes back to 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 for how God will judge saved believers in that day when the Bridegroom comes.


I knew this man in our younger days. He drank alcohol heavily, did dope, & cheated on his wife, among other things. However, he "had an epiphany", ceased his sinning, started attending church, professed salvation, was baptized, & "lived the life'. He spread the Gospel at every opportunity. To keep a long story short, he became a preacher, & founded a small church which he pastored. I heard him preach several times, & he was very good at it, going strictly by Scripture, which he often read in his sermons. His church grew to about 200 members. He lived modestly; he & his wife had no children. He often visited hospitals & the county jail.

Then, he began to have guest preachers conduct his services more & more-often. Soon, he stepped down as pastor. Shortly after that, he was busted for DUI & found to have a felony amount of dope on him, but was acquitted of conspiring to sell it & soon freed after paying a stiff fine. Soon after that, he left his wife, began frequenting known bawdy houses, drinking heavily & doping, sinning more than he did before. When I saw him, I asked him why he'd, turned his back on the Lord. He said it was all a fairy tale, same as Santa Claus, etc. & since he couldn't convince his wife of that, he left her. He said he was dedicated to the hedonistic lifestyle & felt sorry for me,as I was stuck in a dull existence with no fun in it. (He worked as a skilled cabinet maker.)

Shortly after, he died the "country star's death" of acute alcohol poisoning at a friend's party. I felt so bad for him, as I knew he'd forsaken God & died that way.

Now, unfortunately for him, I believe he had thrown away his salvation, as he began denying the existence of God, something I'd not known him to have done before he was saved.

He did not throw away his salvation, but his first inheritance to be of the firstfruits of the resurrection to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House. This is how the prodigal son is applied. He had spent his inheritance for wild living, but although he can never get it back as it is spent, he will return because he is still son. This is where the least in the kingdom of heaven and the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House because OSAS is true.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Jesus said He will cut off and discard a saint when they are not abiding in Him as His disciple verse 6 of John 15:1-8 Jesus said He will cut off saved believers for not being found ready to be with the unbelievers on earth but yet He still calls the discarded saints His servants as they will be judged by stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready & lesser stripes per the knowledge they did not have for not being ready to face that fire as in that Gehenna that is coming on the earth per verse 49 in Luke 12:40-49
Jesus said 'gehenna', not 'as in gehenna'. And gehenna won't come to earth.
Proof that Paul understood this that Jesus could disqualify him was how there is more than the loss of rewards of crowns that was at risk, but being a castaway also.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So once again, it goes back to 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 for how God will judge saved believers in that day when the Bridegroom comes.
And those in sin shall be doomed.
He did not throw away his salvation, but his first inheritance to be of the firstfruits of the resurrection to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House. This is how the prodigal son is applied. He had spent his inheritance for wild living, but although he can never get it back as it is spent, he will return because he is still son. This is where the least in the kingdom of heaven and the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House because OSAS is true.
Not according to Hebrews 6:4-6. Unfortunately, that man didn't try to come back. Now a couple of meat heads tried to tell me he never was saved anyway, but I know better, as I knew him & witnesses his behavior.

Just simply believing doesn't save one. Satan & his demons all believe. One must repent of one's sins & sincerely ask Jesus to forgive those sins & for salvation.
 
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Hark

Well-known member
So how would you describe the fire of calamity to rival the global flood that is coming to the earth as described by Peter in 2 Peter 3:1-18?

And those in sin shall be doomed.
Are you overlooking that in spite of the destruction of the physical bodies for defiling the temple of God, that the spirit is still saved in verse 15 in that same day when He judges?

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House for they shall testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe even in His name as that foundation cannot be removed and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere.



Not according to Hebrews 6:4-6. Unfortunately, that man didn't try to come back. Now a couple of meat heads tried to tell me he never was saved anyway, but I know better, as I knew him & witnesses his behavior.
The earth has received the rain but only what was grown upon that earth will be burned up, but the earth remained and so does the rain as life in the earth, remains just as the works on that foundation is burned up but the foundation that is life, remains.
Just simply believing doesn't save one. Satan & his demons all believe. One must repent of one's sins & sincerely ask Jesus to forgive those sins & for salvation.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

That was about believing there is one God. James was rebuking the church for applying faith in God's Providence to take care of the poor without leading by example of that faith in God's Providence to the operation of the church by meeting the immediate needs of the poor that God has provided enough to meet along with the ministry of the church. James even gave an example of Abraham & Isaac as that story in the O.T. is about God's providing for His servants. So in no way was James inferring that faith to be about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as that is without works. James was rebuking the church for applying faith in God's Providence to get out of helping the poor rather than lead by example.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
So how would you describe the fire of calamity to rival the global flood that is coming to the earth as described by Peter in 2 Peter 3:1-18?
Universal & supernatural. The earth won't be inhabited then. It's part of God's remodeling it for the saints.
Are you overlooking that in spite of the destruction of the physical bodies for defiling the temple of God, that the spirit is still saved in verse 15 in that same day when He judges?
He won't save anyone who dies in sin.
1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House for they shall testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe even in His name as that foundation cannot be removed and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere.
OSAS is a myth. One must continue to abide in Jesus. One who turns his back on Him throws away his salvation.
The earth has received the rain but only what was grown upon that earth will be burned up, but the earth remained and so does the rain as life in the earth, remains just as the works on that foundation is burned up but the foundation that is life, remains.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

That was about believing there is one God. James was rebuking the church for applying faith in God's Providence to take care of the poor without leading by example of that faith in God's Providence to the operation of the church by meeting the immediate needs of the poor that God has provided enough to meet along with the ministry of the church. James even gave an example of Abraham & Isaac as that story in the O.T. is about God's providing for His servants. So in no way was James inferring that faith to be about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as that is without works. James was rebuking the church for applying faith in God's Providence to get out of helping the poor rather than lead by example.

Worx without faith is dead, & so is faith without worx.
 
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