Men, Women, Sex and Gender

[Crazy Ivan]

If it's a mostly free country, we're free to demand that. Right?

Well haha true I guess anyone can demand anything they want. But the rest of us aren’t in any way obligated to go along with it.

There go the Christian holidays. Lucky for you, the unspoken social policies which favored members of Christianity have gone away more often than not, so I guess I can't throw much of that in your face. Still, there's a rather long history of Christians having benefited from official and unofficial policies of that sort, so I don't mean to be a ****, but it's rather convenient for you to be talking about how public policy ought not favor self-identified groups.

It would be fine for a secular society to not abide by religious holidays. There’s only one actually - Christmas. Which at this point is mostly secular anyway.

There goes much of Christian doctrine. It's very easy to label something a mental disorder sans established science, which is what you've just done.

Nice try. I’m sure you think you “got me” here. But you didn’t. There’s a difference between belief in something that science cannot demonstrate, like the existence of God, and something that actually goes against objective reality, like whether a person is male or female, or is a human vs being a squirrel.

I remain convinced that you're not ready for the consequences of this agreement.

In the contrary, I think you haven’t actually thought this all the way through and believe you trapped me, when in fact, you did nothing of the sort. Believe me, I’m more than happy to continue down this path with you.

It seems like a lot to put up with, when if we'd just be tolerant enough to let people self-identify and not concern ourselves with decisions which generally don't affect us, the country (and the world in general) would be a better place.

I’m happy to let people self identify. You can call yourself anything you want. Makes no difference to me.

But I certainly don’t have to pretend that you calling yourself anything you want suddenly ACTUALLY makes you the thing you call yourself. You don’t grant this to lycanthropes - people who identify as animals (“I am actually a squirrel”). I mean, you grant that they can call themselves a squirrel as it’s mostly a free country, but you certainly don’t grant the premise that they actually ARE a squirrel. You recognize that that’s silliness, and if the person was persistent and belligerent and said if you don’t accept that they’re actually a squirrel you’re being bigoted towards them, and if they started chattering like a squirrel and walking around stuffing their mouths full of nuts that they’re storing for winter, you’d still say they have a right to do that but………

…..you’d think they have a mental problem.

And if that person started defacatjng wherever they wanted, on the grass in the park or on your lawn, etc, and if they started skipping work (or school if they’re young) because “squirrels don’t go to work or school, duh”, or if their squirrel-ness started causing them anxiety or suicidal thoughts, you’d think that the solution is for them to get mental therapy, not for society to agree with them that they’re a squirrel.

I trust you get the point here.

 

[Nedsk]

Well haha true I guess anyone can demand anything they want. But the rest of us aren’t in any way obligated to go along with it.



It would be fine for a secular society to not abide by religious holidays. There’s only one actually - Christmas. Which at this point is mostly secular anyway.



Nice try. I’m sure you think you “got me” here. But you didn’t. There’s a difference between belief in something that science cannot demonstrate, like the existence of God, and something that actually goes against objective reality, like whether a person is male or female, or is a human vs being a squirrel.



In the contrary, I think you haven’t actually thought this all the way through and believe you trapped me, when in fact, you did nothing of the sort. Believe me, I’m more than happy to continue down this path with you.



I’m happy to let people self identify. You can call yourself anything you want. Makes no difference to me.

But I certainly don’t have to pretend that you calling yourself anything you want suddenly ACTUALLY makes you the thing you call yourself. You don’t grant this to lycanthropes - people who identify as animals (“I am actually a squirrel”). I mean, you grant that they can call themselves a squirrel as it’s mostly a free country, but you certainly don’t grant the premise that they actually ARE a squirrel. You recognize that that’s silliness, and if the person was persistent and belligerent and said if you don’t accept that they’re actually a squirrel you’re being bigoted towards them, and if they started chattering like a squirrel and walking around stuffing their mouths full of nuts that they’re storing for winter, you’d still say they have a right to do that but………

…..you’d think they have a mental problem.

And if that person started defacatjng wherever they wanted, on the grass in the park or on your lawn, etc, and if they started skipping work (or school if they’re young) because “squirrels don’t go to work or school, duh”, or if their squirrel-ness started causing them anxiety or suicidal thoughts, you’d think that the solution is for them to get mental therapy, not for society to agree with them that they’re a squirrel.

I trust you get the point here.

It's precisely the demanding that's the problem.

I doubt Mikey gets it

 

[Crazy Ivan]

FWIW, this just happened to me....

I was in seeing my therapist (yes, I've got issues!) - a psychiatrist. Talked about my issues. At the end, I noticed that he had a book titled "The Transgender Teen: A handbook for parents and professionals supporting transgender and non-binary teens".

Amazon.com: Transgender Teen: A Handbook for Parents and Professionals Supporting Transgender and Non-Binary Teens: 9781627781749: Brill, Stephanie, Kenney, Lisa: Books

Amazon.com: Transgender Teen: A Handbook for Parents and Professionals Supporting Transgender and Non-Binary Teens: 9781627781749: Brill, Stephanie, Kenney, Lisa: Books

www.amazon.com

So I asked him what he would do if a 10-year old came in and told him she was transgender, that she was a boy. He said that he wouldn't address it because the kid isn't even old enough to understand such things, and certainly isn't old enough to have a rational conversation about it from a clinical perspective. And this is a guy who does a lot of work with kids. I asked about a 15-year old then. He said he'd never recommend a 15-year old transition because they're making life-changing decisions with their bodies when (a) they're too young to really understand what's going on, and (b) the vast, vast majority grow out of it anyway. He added that of course it's a mental disorder for a perfectly healthy girl to think she's a boy, and that there are degrees...some of it is relatively harmless, but some of it is quite disturbing and seriously unhealthy.

This is a clinical psychiatrist. Impeccable credentials. This happened to me an hour and a half ago.

 

[BMS]

He doesnt get it. When he says just let people self identify he doesnt mean self identify as a different age or skin colour or profession, he means the opppsite sex. He doesnt want someone who simply self identifies as a doctor treating him for illness, he wants people to be treated as the opposite sex. What sort of a perversion is that?

When he says not concern ourselves with decisions that dont affect us, how does he think that? Biological sex is a reality and immutable, arent we allowed to stick to that? When he says be tolerant of them why cant they be tolerant of us?

 

[BMS]

Just seen the C4 report on Allison Bailey tribunal. The report stresses above all that the decison people are allowed to be gender crictical about biological sex, ISNT endorcing those views.
Really?. So if someone claimed the moon is made of cheese that is possible.then?

 

[Furion]

]So I asked him what he would do if a 10-year old came in and told him she was transgender, that she was a boy. He said that he wouldn't address it because the kid isn't even old enough to understand such things, and certainly isn't old enough to have a rational conversation about it from a clinical perspective. And this is a guy who does a lot of work with kids. I asked about a 15-year old then. He said he'd never recommend a 15-year old transition because they're making life-changing decisions with their bodies when (a) they're too young to really understand what's going on, and (b) the vast, vast majority grow out of it anyway. He added that of course it's a mental disorder for a perfectly healthy girl to think she's a boy, and that there are degrees...some of it is relatively harmless, but some of it is quite disturbing and seriously unhealthy.

This is a clinical psychiatrist. Impeccable credentials. This happened to me an hour and a half ago.

Good to know not every counselor is insane.

Probably standard views of most counselors.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Good to know not every counselor is insane.

Probably standard views of most counselors.

Well, like medical people, they understand that men are males and women are females. It's not really rocket science.

 

[Furion]

Well, like medical people, they understand that men are males and women are females. It's not really rocket science.

Hmm. Well, in rocket science it is also easy. You either have a rocket that can launch or you don't.

 

[Harry Leggs]

Well written on law of unintended consequences and anti science Biden

LIBBY EMMONS: Biden Is So Obsessed With Trans He’s Demanding Coverage of Boob Jobs for Men

The Biden administration is obsessed with trans. On his first day in office, President Joe Biden signed an executive order to essentially conflate gender identity with biological sex, indicating that there is no difference under law between

humanevents.com

one of this would have been possible had Biden not issued a directive stating that, under law, there can be no difference between biological sex and gender identity. Biden, who has said through his executive orders that he does not believe there to be any difference between women and men who say they are women, has created a most inequitable situation.

Now, men will be able to have breast augmentation surgeries funded by their insurance carriers, while women will not. Men will be able to have elective plastic surgery to feminize their faces and bodies, women will not. And men will be able to do this because Biden has declared that it would be discrimination, in opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, to not perform these surgeries on the men who ask for them.


To many, what Biden did when conflating gender identity with biological sex was simply rhetorical, word play, language games. But instead, it was a very real-world undertaking with real consequences for our health care systems, as well as for countless other areas of public life from education to athletics to politics.