So, you are agreeing that belief must occur before the truth is known to you in reality?
Minds are for believing.
- Thread starter Tercon
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So, you are agreeing that belief must occur before the truth is known to you in reality?
Temujin
Well-known member
I have said this three times now. It is part of what must occur before the truth is known. Try and focus. This is agreed. Now, do you agree that it is possible for someone to believe sincerely in something that is not true? This requires a yes or no answer. Let's see if you care capable of giving one. Knock once for yes and twice for no. Is it possy for a sincere person to believe something which is not true in reality?
You are conflating belief and unbelief. Actually they are disbelieving the truth in reality, because it is ONLY belief that can make the truth known in reality and not disbelieving the truth.
Actually "false beliefs" and "something which is not true" can't be denoting the truth or reality.
Temujin
Well-known member
You are not answering the question. You are J st reframing the situation. I know what they are doing. They are believing something which is not true. Whether you describe this as unbelief or false belief matters not. What I am asking is how do they know or find out that their belief is mistaken. How are beliefs and unbeliefs distinguished from each other in the mind of the person who holds each to be true?
You're delusional, as your reasoning is illogical. And you are conflating belief and unbelief again. If a belief in reality can only denote the truth, then how is it possible to have a belief in "something which is not true" and doesn't and can't denote reality to begin with? And it is ONLY a belief in reality that can make the truth known to you. Get a grip.
Temujin
Well-known member
Because being necessary and being sufficient are not the same thing. Being alive is necessary for know the truth, but it is not sufficient. Neither is believing that you have the truth. The piece missing is that what you believe to be tru must actually be true. Belief guarantees nothing. It's not much more than hope. It can and frequently is mistaken.
[Quote Another Non Sequitur and you are conflating belief and unbelief, as if they are "mistaken", then how do they believe? When only hindsight and belief is 20/20.[/Quote]. Of course I am conflating belief and unbelief, because they are the same thing, indistinguishable in every respect. The only difference between them is the fact that one is justified and the other is mistaken. The person concerned cannot tell either way. All they can do is check the actual evidence and prepare to change their mind.
I post because your obsession and your error are vaguely interesting. You cannot recognise the truth that your fond belief is in fact unbelief. You are wrong, mistaken. You have been taken in. You believe a falsehood. What you say here is untrue. You are unwittingly telling lies. You believe one thing, but the opposite is true. Reality does not conform to your belief. Your posts are incorrect. You are wrong. Logic shows this. Philosophy shows this. Reality shows this. A casual glance at the real world shows this. I don't know what you will do when this finally sinks in. Perhaps you will stop posting. I mean, what can you say after all these years and hundreds of posts. "Sorry guys, I was wrong" seems unlikely. Nevertheless, you are wrong, and will always be so.
Temujin
Well-known member
Belief in reality denotes the truth. Belief in something which is not reality, is mistaken, as you are. Calling the latter unbelief doesn't help. It is indistinguishable from belief because it is belief. It's just belief in something that isn't real. It's common enough.
If belief is necessary 100% of the time in order to make the truth known to you and without belief the truth and reality is unknowable to you, then your unbelief as to belief's sufficiency is enough to make you ignorant of the truth and reality.
If it is true that belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to you 100% of the time without exception, then in reality your unbelief of belief's sufficiency is enough to make you unaware of the truth and reality, because in reality belief must always occur in you before the truth and reality is made known to you.
That's the dumbest thing I have ever read.
Does it at all matter to you that belief is necessary and must occur in reality before to truth is known to you? And unbelief is the lack of a belief occurring in reality. So, how can belief and unbelief be "the same thing", when in reality they are diametrically opposed to one another and when one is occurring the other can't?
No, the difference is that one(belief) is something that must occur in reality before the truth is made known to you. And the other (unbelief) is just the lack of the first one occurring and thus doesn't and can't have any occurrence in reality.