Minds are for believing.

[HouOz]

So you don't believe anything your mind constructs?

Minds construct fairy tales and super heroes.

 

[TeabagSalad]

You still don't understand what belief is, do you? A justification for a belief isn't a belief it's a justification.


Wow. You really are confused. I didn't say that belief is both true and false at the same time, I was speaking of belief in general.

Let us try this again and see if you can understand it...

- A belief can be either true or false.
- Therefore belief is not a reliable way to determine what is true (because beliefs can be false).
- If we want to know the truth then we need a way to determine what is true, which isn't a belief.

Do you understand this?


lol. I haven't painted myself into a corner, rather you have demonstrated that you don't understand what the phrase "belief does not define reality" actually means. Or can you explain what you think it means?

 

[Whateverman]

No one here has ever agreed with your nonsense, silly. Your ideas can't withstand the slightest scrutiny, and you spend all your time reiterating claims that have been shot down for the last decade.

You're a forum pariah.

 

[Nouveau]

How do you KNOW that's true, when you can't and don't KNOW anything without a believing mind and KNOWLEDGE silly?

How do you KNOW there is no mind or knowledge required or entailed for "locating existence" or "no mind is required as existence", when in reality you can't KNOW anything without a believing mind and existing silly. You are pretending to know the unknowable.

I'm not saying knowledge doesn't require a mind, and the difference between knowledge and existence is available to anyone capable of using a dictionary.

The difference is that you have spent a decade showing everyone how and why the truth and reality isn't known to you. And I have spent it showing how and why the truth and reality is knowable.

You've spent a decade posting the same confused nonsense that convinces no-one, and you have a disbelieving mind when it comes to anything anyone says to you. By your own argument, that makes reality unknowable to you.

Wrong, because in reality Justified True Belief is still belief, it didn't stop being belief because some deluded unbelievers couldn't deal with its implications.

No-one said JTB isn't belief. I said it isn't only belief. How many letters in "JTB", Tercon? Can you count them?

 

[Tiburon]

Wrong.

 

[Tiburon]

What you've said is false because it doesn't conform to reality. Your 'understanding' of belief is not accepted by anyone else.

 

[Nouveau]

What do you know of that doesn't require and entail a believing mind silly?

Most things. Again, you need to learn the difference between knowledge and existence.

And if you aren't referring to and denoting something that is knowable or doesn't entail a mind to experience existence, then what are you denoting silly?

I never said I was denoting something that isn't knowable.

Wrong, I spent a decade talking about how and why the truth and reality is knowable and you have spent a life time hiding from IT.

You've spent a decade posting nonsense that literally not a single other person has ever agreed with.

So, if JTB is still a belief, then belief must be sufficient in order to make the truth and reality knowable.

Wrong. Compare: If a bachelor is still human, then being human must be sufficient for being a bachelor.

 

[Nouveau]

Delete

Object permanence.

Delete

I am denoting the universe, which is knowable and does not entail a mind in order to exist.

Delete

Unsupported. It was perfectly analogous. See below.

Delete

Cf: If all unmarried male humans are humans, and only humans can become bachelors, then being a human is sufficient for being a bachelor as well.
- Obviously false.

Delete

Cf: If only beliefs can be justified true beliefs, then being a justified true belief must be sufficient for and entail being a belief as well.
- Not in dispute, but also not what you were saying above.

 

[Nouveau]

What about "object permanence" can be known to occur or exist without YOUR belief or knowing anything about it?

Nothing can be known without belief. That's not my claim. Object permanence is the means by which it is known that things can exist without requiring any mind.

But what are you denoting that "is knowable and does not entail a mind in order to exist" or occur?

I literally just told you: The universe.

Strawman and I didn't say any such thing. Rather I said that: If only humans can be bachelors, then being a bachelor must be sufficient for and entail being human as well. And you have not shown this to be false or illogical. Strawman.

Analogies, not strawmen. And the above was your bait & switch, i.e. not analogous to your original claim.

And if all justified true beliefs are beliefs, then some beliefs must be sufficient in order to make the truth and reality known. However, they are still beliefs and not something else that are not beliefs. And those beliefs must be sufficient in order to make the truth and reality known.

Correct, but not in dispute. Cf: If all unmarried male humans are humans, then some humans must be sufficient in order to make them bachelors. And they are still humans rather than something else. Duh! Obviously some humans are bachelors (the unmarried adult male ones), even though being human is not sufficient for being a bachelor. Likewise, some beliefs are knowledge (the justified and true ones), even though belief alone is not sufficient for knowledge.

 

[Tiburon]

Delete

So you are saying that the need to believe one thing in the chain of understanding i.e. "object permanence", means that nothing can exists without belief? Even though the thing we applied the idea of "object permanence" to wasn't previously known?
That is ridiculous.
Belief in a quality does not equate to belief in every item that quality can be applied to.

Delete

So if all bachelors are human does that mean that all humans are bachelors?
No.
So if all knowledge is belief does that mean all belief is knowledge?
No.
You are arguing from the specific to the general.
That is a "Fallacy of composition" argument.

 

[Nouveau]

What's up with all these deleted posts?

Tercon, did you request their deletion?

 

[Tiburon]

What's up with all these deleted posts?

Tercon, did you request their deletion?

Destroying the evidence.

 

[Nouveau]

Destroying the evidence.

But the last place you'd ever find evidence is in one of Tercon's posts!

 

[Tiburon]

But the last place you'd ever find evidence is in one of Tercon's posts!

Evidence of him contradicting himself or not being sufficiently vague. Not any actual evidence supporting his arguments.

 

[Tiburon]

What's happening to your posts?

I have no idea. It happened to yours in one of the other threads.

 

[Whateverman]

Well you certainly won't find any evidence of the truth in an unbelieving mind, because they can't even make the truth known to themselves.

Since your unbelieving mind lacks belief in atheism's ability to exist in reality, you can't even make the truth known to yourself.

Why should anyone listen to anything you say?

 

[Whateverman]

I have no idea. It happened to yours in one of the other threads.

He's intentionally editing your post(s). You can tell because the link in the quotes he's posted all work; they point to your posts which say something other than "deleted".

 

[Tiburon]

He's intentionally editing your post(s). You can tell because the link in the quotes he's posted all work; they point to your posts which say something other than "deleted".

But it's also happened in posts where I have quoted him.

 

[Whateverman]

But it's also happened in posts where I have quoted him.

That's because the mods have been deleting his posts. Go find one of yours where you quoted him, but it now says "deleted". Click on the link - and you'll get a message saying the post doesn't exist.

Now find HIS posts where he quotes you as saying "deleted"; you'll see that the quote link goes back to your post, where you said stuff that can still be read.

He's pretending your posts are getting deleted... He created a second account because his threads keep getting squashed by the moderators...

 

[Whateverman]

Actually your unbelieving mind lacks the ability to make you known to exist in reality.

Actually, your unbelieving mind lacks the ability to make truth and reality known to you, so you can't know anything about other people's minds.