Minds are for believing.

[Whateverman]

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You have an unbelieving mind. You lack belief in belief's ability to make falsehoods known to you as truths.

Ergo, your unbelieving mind can't make truth and reality known to you - according to you, silly.

 

[Whateverman]

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False. You have an unbelieving mind, and I can prove it. All you have to do is agree with the following:

A believing mind can believe falsehoods as truth.​

Tell us you agree with that, and I'll retract my claim. You won't, though, because you've refused to do so the many times this simple fact has been pointed out to you. Belief is an inadequate indicator of truth.

You lack this belief, which is why truth and reality cannot be made known to you; you have an unbelieving mind, silly.

 

[PGW]

It is impossible for anyone to "believe falsehoods as truth", including you. But it's only unbelievers who think they can believe their unbelief exists.

People believe falsehoods all the time. Consider a Christian, and a Muslim. Both believe their God is the one true God, one must be wrong, so one of them believes a falsehood.

Are you a Christian? You seem very confused about basic things, perhaps you should talk to your pastor.

I will pray for you.

 

[Tercon]

People believe falsehoods all the time. Consider a Christian, and a Muslim. Both believe their God is the one true God, one must be wrong, so one of them believes a falsehood.

Yes, the one who disbelieves the truth. A belief in reality always makes the truth known to a believer.

Are you a Christian? You seem very confused about basic things, perhaps you should talk to your pastor.

Yes I am a Christian. And I am not confused in the least as to how and why the truth is known.

I will pray for you.

Condescension isn't a prayer.

 

[Whateverman]

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A brainless tautology. You might as well have said "a belief in the truth always makes the truth known to the believer".

YOU don't have access to reality; neither does anyone else. All we have access to is our perceptions, and the models our brains form to make sense out of them.

ps. is this another of your silly attempts at redefinition? Truth = reality? That makes a pretty retarded chain of equivalencies: truth = reality = God = belief = knowledge

pps. I know I'm missing a few

 

[PGW]

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You are obviously very confused about what belief is.

I will pray for you.

 

[PGW]

Like I said, you should pray for your unbelief.

What are you talking about? I believe in God, why would I want to pray for things that I don't believe in?

I think that you should talk to your pastor before your nonsense ideas lead you astray and you end up becoming lost.

I will pray for you, and hope that you are returned to the light from the darkness of your obvious lack of understanding.

 

[Whatsisface]

Who needs your condescending nonsense. Like I said, pray for yourself, because you have no way of helping anyone with your attitude.

See, even your fellow believers don't agree with you.

 

[Whatsisface]

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Always the excuse with you.

 

[Tiburon]

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Belief is when one accepts something to be true in reality.
It doesn't mean that it is true in reality.
It just means that you think it is.

 

[Tiburon]

And it doesn't mean that it isn't true in reality either.

No it doesn't. So it means we need more than just belief in order to know that something is true.

 

[Tiburon]

So, if it doesn't mean that it isn't true in reality either, then your argument fails.

How does my argument fail? My argument is that belief is not enough to allow us to discern truth from falsehood.

Wrong. If a parent tells a child not to touch a stove because it will burn, then the child doesn't have to touch the stove or experience a burn in order to know the truth, all they have to do is believe their parents. That's how the truth and reality works, and your opinion as to how and why it works is irrelevant, because the only thing required from you is your belief in order to make to known to you. The rest is just you projecting your unbelief into everything and making the truth and reality unknown to you.

The child does have to touch the stove or see evidence of someone else having been burned to "know" the truth.
Otherwise it's just belief. Without evidence they have no justification for believing it.
Parents tell children that if they are good Santa will come and bring them presents. If they believe that do they know the truth?
Do you still believe in Santa?

 

[Tiburon]

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If it is true. If it isn't true then your belief that it is true is wrong.

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It makes it "known" to be true. It doesn't make it true. Your belief doesn't make it true. It's either true or it's not independent of your belief.

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Our senses or feelings is what informs our beliefs. Then we "know".

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Then you only believed. You didn't know.

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If you did everything they told you, how did you pay dearly for not believing?

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You just said that you acted upon what your parents told you. That you believed your parents. You were piggy backing upon their beliefs. You didn't believe for yourself. You didn't know and experience the truth and reality you just blindly followed your parent's instructions.

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As has been pointed out many times, belief is necessary but one belief is not sufficient on it's own to make the truth known to you.

 

[Tiburon]

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And you can't know that it is true simply by believing it.

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No the truth originates in reality.

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So you don't have any senses? How do you know what reality is?

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If the stove is on then you can feel the heat. You can also observe what has happened to others who did touch the stove.
You don't just take someone's word for it.
"do we also put a gun to our head and pull the trigger to find out guns can kill you?"
You go first.

 

[Tiburon]

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No. Name one thing you believe is true but don't know is true?

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No, the evaluation of something as true and real is the product of our believing mind. Our believing minds don't makes something true and real.

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What informs you of the truth and reality. Without your senses you have nothing to believe.

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I didn't agree with you. So even though you "believe" I do it isn't true.

 

[5wize]

You are playing fast and loose with the truth and reality, because in reality no believing mind can "believe falsehoods as truth".

Do Muslims believe Muhammad is a prophet of God? Yes or no?
Is he? Yes or no?

 

[5wize]

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I'm not talking about you or I. I'm talking about Muslims.
Do Muslims believe Muhammad is a prophet of God? Yes or no?
Is he? Yes or no?

 

[Tiburon]

Not true. Even our physical senses require belief, because our senses have no way of informing us of the truth and reality without believing what we are sensing first.

So therefore we have to sense something first. Then we believe it or don't believe it.

 

[mikeT]

Even our physical senses require belief, because our senses have no way of informing us of the truth and reality without believing what we are sensing first.

So therefore we have to sense something first. Then we believe it or don't believe it.

Right.

Belief is not needed to sense something, as has been repeatedly pointed out to Tercon over these last few months. Sene perception occurs, after which you decide whether the perceptions represent reality or not.

 

[BMS]

Right.

Belief is not needed to sense something, as has been repeatedly pointed out to Tercon over these last few months. Sene perception occurs, after which you decide whether the perceptions represent reality or not.

But that is our argument with you and biological sex and gender identity. So I would agree with you except you dont always believe that yourself.