Minds are for believing.

[Tercon]

Actually, we know the opposite.

That aligns with what I said, when a believing mind is no longer present; then you are dead. The body needs a believing mind in order to be alive and when it isn't no longer present, then you're dead. So, it is the believing mind that makes you alive and not the brain at all.

 

[Tiburon]

That aligns with what I said, when a believing mind is no longer present; then you are dead. The body needs a believing mind in order to be alive and when it isn't no longer present, then you're dead. So, it is the believing mind that makes you alive and not the brain at all.

Can you remove the brain and leave the believing mind.

 

[Tercon]

Can you remove the brain and leave the believing mind.

You can only "remove the brain" after the believing mind as left. When the believing mind is no longer present, then they are no longer a person. It is the believing mind part of a person that gives us personhood.

Can you remove the believing mind from the brain without resulting in a person's physical death?

 

[Rockson]

Actually you can know somethings in the spirit which really have nothing to do with the natural mind. Somebody asks just how do you know this and you can say I can't tell you in a way that might satisfy your mind or even my mind. You just KNOW because you know because God gives one revelation. Revelation to ones spirit can transcend the mind.

 

[Tercon]

Actually you can know somethings in the spirit which really have nothing to do with the natural mind. Somebody asks just how do you know this and you can say I can't tell you in a way that might satisfy your mind or even my mind. You just KNOW because you know because God gives one revelation. Revelation to ones spirit can transcend the mind.

According to the Bible God uses belief in order to make Himself and everything including revelation He wants known to believers.
And the Holy Spirit AKA the Spirit of truth leads believers to all truth in influencing a believers beliefs in order to make the truth known to the believer. That's why believers only are sensitive to the truth and reality of God's Kingdom.

And revelation does not transcend a believing mind, because a believing mind is necessary in order to make known what is being revealed to the believer. Belief is a gift of God and the ordained mode by which He makes everything known to people.

 

[Tiburon]

You can only "remove the brain" after the believing mind as left. When the believing mind is no longer present, then they are no longer a person. It is the believing mind part of a person that gives us personhood.

Can you remove the believing mind from the brain without resulting in a person's physical death?

No because that "believing mind" is generated by that brain.

 

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Thanks for pointing that out yourself, and you're right; because brains can't function properly without a believing mind present.

Maybe the mod will let it go; seeing as though you have said it of yourself and not me at all.



More straw-mating. And thanks for pointing out that nothing works properly for you without a believing mind present, you really have been quite helpful.

What do you understand by a "believing mind"? Belief in what? Fairies? Unicorns? A flat earth? I have read this thread and you are far from specific in your comments. Define your terms. That is the usual method adopted for presenting a case.

However, if this is all about believing in the Christian deity then you have [metaphorically] painted yourself into a corner as that is one belief in a concept of deity among many and is therefore no more valid than the belief of any other religious individual and their concept of deity.

 

[Tercon]

What do you understand by a "believing mind"? Belief in what? Fairies? Unicorns? A flat earth? I have read this thread and you are far from specific in your comments. Define your terms. That is the usual method adopted for presenting a case.

Strawman and projection. Actually it is you who isn't being "specific in your" questions as to what "beliefs" are in reality, do you believe that "Fairies Unicorns A flat earth" are beliefs in reality?

And a 'believing mind' is what makes the truth and reality known to whoever is willing to believe.

I gave an example of a real belief in reality: I believe that 'Trump was president in 2019'. This is what I believe to be a belief in reality.

Do you believe that "Fairies Unicorns A flat earth" are beliefs in reality?

However, if this is all about believing in the Christian deity then you have [metaphorically] painted yourself into a corner as that is one belief in a concept of deity among many and is therefore no more valid than the belief of any other religious individual and their concept of deity.

Strawman.

I believe that the truth, logic, existence, consciousness, morality and belief itself (which is necessary and must occur in reality before the truth is made known to you) exists. And all of these things are all the result of a believing mind, because outside or without a believing mind none of these things are knowable nor do they have a way or place to occur without a believing mind.
And if the logical truth existence, consciousness, morality and belief itself always existed, because to suggest otherwise is self-defeating, then all of these things must have resulted from and occurred in God's Mind; the Original Believing Mind to have always existed in eternity.

 

[Tercon]

No because that "believing mind" is generated by that brain.

Actually the Bible and Quantum Mechanics suggests otherwise.

In the Bible and Quantum Mechanics both require and logically entail a believing mind in order for the truth and reality of God to be known and, WFC and entanglement to have a way and place to occur. So, if even WFC and entanglement requires and logically entails a believing mind for physicality to have a way and place to occur and exist, then even physicality requires and logically entails a believing mind to occur and exist too.
Therefore, knowledge of the truth, reality, WFC and entanglement all require a believing mind for a way and place to occur. And outside or without a believing mind none of these things can be known to exist or occur.
And if consciousness is life and consciousness requires and logically entails a believing mind in order to be known to occur and exist, then a believing mind must be the primary source of life and consciousness.

We know that brains die. But we don't and can't know or experience a believing minds demise, because all knowing and experiencing too requires and logically entails a believing mind in order to occur in reality.

 

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Strawman and projection.

Asking that you define your terms is not a "[s]trawman and projection". It is a requirement on your part to avoid confusion.

Actually it is you who isn't being "specific in your" questions as to what "beliefs" are in reality, do you believe that "Fairies Unicorns A flat earth" are beliefs in reality?

Many people believe in fairies of some sort as well as angels and demons. Those are likewise examples of a "believing mind".

And a 'believing mind' is what makes the truth and reality known to whoever is willing to believe.

Therefore a belief in demons is reality for some poor deluded individuals. But do demons exist?

I gave an example of a real belief in reality: I believe that 'Trump was president in 2019'. This is what I believe to be a belief in reality.

That is a fact premised on the situation in 2019, not a belief.

Do you believe that "Fairies Unicorns A flat earth" are beliefs in reality?

People hold them as well believing in the devil and demonic possession. If their "believing mind" takes them that way then anything can be considered to be "a real belief in reality".

Strawman.

I believe that the truth, logic, existence, consciousness, morality and belief itself (which is necessary and must occur in reality before the truth is made known to you) exists.

Morality is a moot point as it varies from culture to culture. What is existence? What is reality? These are big philosophical [and scientific] questions.

And what "truth" are you considering? This does seem to be heading down the rabbit hole to a belief in a Christian deity.

And all of these things are all the result of a believing mind, because outside or without a believing mind none of these things are knowable nor do they have a way or place to occur without a believing mind.

But have you yet to define what a believing mind might be.

And if the logical truth existence, consciousness, morality and belief itself always existed, because to suggest otherwise is self-defeating, then all of these things must have resulted from and occurred in God's Mind; the Original Believing Mind to have always existed in eternity.

Ah and there we come to the end of the rabbit hole. The Christian deity. You might have saved yourself a great deal of trouble if you had made that clear from the outset.

 

[Tercon]

Asking that you define your terms is not a "[s]trawman and projection". It is a requirement on your part to avoid confusion.

You didn't only ask for me to define terms, you said;

What do you understand by a "believing mind"? Belief in what? Fairies? Unicorns? A flat earth?

So, again; why are you pretending that "Fairies Unicorns A flat earth" are beliefs in reality?

Many people believe in fairies of some sort as well as angels and demons. Those are likewise examples of a "believing mind".

Strawman and projection. I am not referring to what other "people believe", rather I am just referring to how and why the truth and reality is known to us.

Also, demons just refer to the "false beliefs" that people have.

Therefore a belief in demons is reality for some poor deluded individuals. But do demons exist?

Actually demons do refer to and denote something; they refer to and denote the lies and unbelief that people have in their minds that prevent them from knowing the truth and reality. For instance, thinking or falsely believing that unbelief exists or occurs in reality. That is a big one that keeps many from the truth and reality of God.

That is a fact premised on the situation in 2019, not a belief.

Evasion. Do you believe that Trump was president in 2019?

If I believe that 'Trump was president in 2019', then that's a justified true belief and a belief in reality.

People hold them as well believing in the devil and demonic possession. If their "believing mind" takes them that way then anything can be considered to be "a real belief in reality".

Strawman and conflation of belief and unbelief.
Actually in reality it isn't "their believing mind" that "takes them away from 'a real belief in reality', rather it is a unbelief of the truth that separates them from reality.

Morality is a moot point as it varies from culture to culture.

Strawman. Stop pretending that morality doesn't exist, because disbelieving morality exists just makes you immoral.

As if pedophilia is immoral, then morality must exist in reality.

What is existence? What is reality? These are big philosophical [and scientific] questions.

Existence is a believing mind's awareness of reality, as ONLY a believing mind possesses this capacity.

If a believing mind is what makes the truth known in reality, then reality must denote a believing mind.

And what "truth" are you considering? This does seem to be heading down the rabbit hole to a belief in a Christian deity.

The truth: if 'Trump was president in 2019' is true, then 'Trump was president in 2019' must represent the truth in reality.

And God does refer to and denote something that does exist. Such as; logical truth, existence, consciousness, morality and the reality of a Believing Mind itself; God is the Original Mind that all that exists occurs.

But have you yet to define what a believing mind might be.

A believing mind is what makes the truth and reality known to whoever is willing to believe it exists.

Ah and there we come to the end of the rabbit hole. The Christian deity. You might have saved yourself a great deal of trouble if you had made that clear from the outset.

Evasion. I don't see any argument refuting what I said. Everything I said is true of how and why the truth and reality is known and you have not even begun to refute it. And your insidious unbelief and ignorance of the truth isn't a argument.

 

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You didn't only ask for me to define terms, you said;

Point of information I wrote after that, "Define your terms. That is the usual method adopted for presenting a case."

So, again; why are you pretending that "Fairies Unicorns A flat earth" are beliefs in reality?

For those people who hold such beliefs they are true and real. Just as the psychological experiences of a schizophrenic are [for that person] reality.

Strawman and projection. I am not referring to what other "people believe", rather I am just referring to how and why the truth and reality is known to us.

In one sentence you have successfully contradicted yourself. You wrote:

"I am not referring to what other "people believe" and then contradicted it with, "I am just referring to how and why the truth and reality is known to us".

Unless the pronoun "us" refers to a group of selected initiates [including yourself] who possess some esoteric/occult knowledge, then that pronoun refers to everyone.

Hence your comments about the "believing mind" [when applied to someone who sincerely believes in angels or fairies] is [for them] both the "truth" and "reality".

Also, demons just refer to the "false beliefs" that people have.

Tell that to the "Christian" beating the demon/devil out of a child. For that "Christian" demons or the devil are very much the "truth" and "reality" from which the child needs to be "saved".

Actually demons do refer to and denote something; they refer to and denote the lies and unbelief that people have in their minds that prevent them from knowing the truth and reality.

How do demons affect the real world? And again, what is this "truth and reality" you keep writing about? You seem somewhat reluctant to define it.

For instance, thinking or falsely believing that unbelief exists or occurs in reality.

So according to you, only your definition of truth and reality are the correct ones? That seems rather dogmatic.

However, is your reality the same as my own? Can either of us perceive the physical world using ultra violet light? Butterflies can.

Is their "reality" therefore the same as ours?

That is a big one that keeps many from the truth and reality of God.

So again you appear to be coyly suggesting that the believing mind and truth and reality are [for you] all subjective and part of your own Christian belief and only those who hold a belief identical to your own have this knowledge of "truth" and "reality" and the correct "believing mind".

Evasion. Do you believe that Trump was president in 2019?

I do not need to "believe" it. It is an attested historical fact.

If I believe that 'Trump was president in 2019', then that's a justified true belief and a belief in reality.

It is the acceptance of a proven historical fact for which there is a plethora of evidence.

Strawman and conflation of belief and unbelief.

Again that strikes me as rather arrogant and dangerous. Those who believe they have absolute knowledge can [and do] dreadful things.

Actually in reality it isn't "their believing mind" that "takes them away from 'a real belief in reality', rather it is a unbelief of the truth that separates them from reality.

Some very unsavoury individuals and regimes believed they had "a real belief in reality". It led to the deaths of millions.

Strawman. Stop pretending that morality doesn't exist,

I did not write that morality does not exist but it is a moot point because what you deem moral someone from another culture would deem immoral [and of course vice versa].

because disbelieving morality exists just makes you immoral.

Morality is culturally based - see above

As if pedophilia is immoral, then morality must exist in reality.

Now you again have to define terms.

If, by paedophilia, you are referring to the sexual abuse of pre-pubescent children, then for many that is indeed considered wrong because it is an abuse of power by a physically stronger individual. However, the term paedophilia is often thrown around by individuals to describe any sexual relationship between an older individual and a somewhat younger individual, that they personally deem immoral.

Existence is a believing mind's awareness of reality, as ONLY a believing mind possesses this capacity.

Oh dear what about the soul? I also thought Christians believed in some sort of afterlife. Is that latter not considered an "existence" by you?

If a believing mind is what makes the truth known in reality, then reality must denote a believing mind.

What is reality and what is truth? You seem unable to define these.

The truth: if 'Trump was president in 2019' is true, then 'Trump was president in 2019' must represent the truth in reality.

Again that is a historical fact.

And God does refer to and denote something that does exist. Such as; logical truth, existence, consciousness, morality and the reality of a Believing Mind itself; God is the Original Mind that all that exists occurs.

Which god and concept of deity do you have in mind?

A believing mind is what makes the truth and reality known to whoever is willing to believe it exists.

You keep writing this as if under the illusion if you repeat often enough it will become accepted.

Evasion. I don't see any argument refuting what I said. Everything I said is true of how and why the truth and reality is known

What truth and reality? And known to whom?

and you have not even begun to refute it. And your insidious unbelief and ignorance of the truth isn't a argument.

Once again we return to this dogmatic and arrogant attitude that only you and those who think as you do, have the ultimate "truth" and "reality". That attitude leads to bigotry, fanaticism, and murderous abuse.

 

[Tercon]

Point of information I wrote after that, "Define your terms. That is the usual method adopted for presenting a case."

Actually my argument is for how and why the truth and reality is known to us, because if a believing mind is the only thing capable of making the truth and reality known to us, then it is only a believing mind that can define the truth and reality.

For those people who hold such beliefs they are true and real. Just as the psychological experiences of a schizophrenic are [for that person] reality.

If you are not here to talk about how and why the truth and reality is known to us, but rather to talk about "psychological experiences of a schizophrenic", then you need to stop wasting everyone's time that are looking for the truth and reality.

In one sentence you have successfully contradicted yourself. You wrote:

"I am not referring to what other "people believe" and then contradicted it with, "I am just referring to how and why the truth and reality is known to us". Unless the pronoun "us" refers to a group of selected initiates [including yourself] who possess some esoteric/occult knowledge, then that pronoun refers to everyone.

Strawman. Actually when I say 'us' I am only referring to and denoting those who take serious how and why the truth and reality is known to 'us'. And I am not referring or denoting those "people" who want to wallow in the "psychological experiences of a schizophrenic" strawmen. Good luck with that.

Hence your comments about the "believing mind" [when applied to someone who sincerely believes in angels or fairies] is [for them] both the "truth" and "reality".

Another strawman. Again, I am not referring or denoting those "people" who want to wallow in the "psychological experiences of a schizophrenic" or engaging in delusional strawmanning. Rather I am only referring to and denoting those who take serious how and why the truth and reality is known to 'us'.
And because you are engaged in so much strawmanning here, then 'we' can only conclude that you are not interested in the truth and reality either? But you are welcomed to correct me if I am wrong and seriously engage me in a discussion of just how and why the truth and reality is known to 'us". Do you want this?

Tell that to the "Christian" beating the demon/devil out of a child. For that "Christian" demons or the devil are very much the "truth" and "reality" from which the child needs to be "saved".

Another strawman. Remember, I am only referring to and denoting those who take serious how and why the truth and reality is known to 'us'. And not "those" "beating the demon/devil out of a child".

And you are equivocating people "saved" from something and what biblical 'saved' or salvation refers to and denotes; in the saving of oneself from themselves, because the and reality of God requires belief and a believing mind in order to be known.

How do demons affect the real world? And again, what is this "truth and reality" you keep writing about? You seem somewhat reluctant to define it.

Demons don't affect the truth and reality of God, rather "demons affect" those who disbelieve in the truth and reality of God.

Actually I have shown on many occasions that the truth and reality is the result of God's Original Believing Mind, as all truth and reality originates in and with Him for whomever is willing to believe in His reality and will (His Kingdom).

So according to you, only your definition of truth and reality are the correct ones? That seems rather dogmatic.

Another strawman. No, my claim is that the truth and reality is the result of a believing mind. So, the truth and reality must be the object of Someone's Believing Mind. And if it isn't mine, yours or any other human's, then the truth and reality must be the object of God's Mind.

However, is your reality the same as my own? Can either of us perceive the physical world using ultra violet light? Butterflies can. Is their "reality" therefore the same as ours?

Strawman. Actually if the truth and reality is the object of God's Mind, then it isn't a unbeliever's to begin with, because it is only believers who in believing in accordance with God that makes His truth and reality the believer's aka His children's.

So again you appear to be coyly suggesting that the believing mind and truth and reality are [for you] all subjective and part of your own Christian belief and only those who hold a belief identical to your own have this knowledge of "truth" and "reality" and the correct "believing mind".

More strawmanning. Actually I am suggesting that if the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality must be the object of a Believing Mind

I do not need to "believe" it. It is an attested historical fact. It is the acceptance of a proven historical fact for which there is a plethora of evidence.

Evasion. Do you believe or disbelieve that Trump was president in 2019?

Again that strikes me as rather arrogant and dangerous. Those who believe they have absolute knowledge can [and do] dreadful things.

Well if you don't know how and why the truth and reality is known to you, then admit it and stop pretending that it is known to you. We can then discuss how and why it is made known to 'us".

Some very unsavoury individuals and regimes believed they had "a real belief in reality". It led to the deaths of millions.

And again, I am not referring to what "unsavoury individuals and regimes" think, but how and why the truth and reality is known to anyone who wants to believe it.

I did not write that morality does not exist but it is a moot point because what you deem moral someone from another culture would deem immoral [and of course vice versa]. Morality is culturally based - see above

You either believe morality exists or you don't. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways, you either believe in the existence of morality or you are immoral. It is a mutually exclusive and exhaustive proposition.

Now you again have to define terms. If, by paedophilia, you are referring to the sexual abuse of pre-pubescent children, then for many that is indeed considered wrong because it is an abuse of power by a physically stronger individual. However, the term paedophilia is often thrown around by individuals to describe any sexual relationship between an older individual and a somewhat younger individual, that they personally deem immoral.

People who prey upon those who are too young to understand the consequences of sex.

Oh dear what about the soul? I also thought Christians believed in some sort of afterlife. Is that latter not considered an "existence" by you?

Of course, believers are what 'we' believe 'we' are in God's reality, our soul and spirit requires a believing mind in order to enter God's reality and Kingdom.

What is reality and what is truth? You seem unable to define these.

Strawman. I know what the truth and reality is; the truth is what is believed in order to make reality known.

Again that is a historical fact.

Evasion. Do you believe or disbelieve that Trump was president in 2019?

Which god and concept of deity do you have in mind?

The Arbiter of the truth and reality. As if you knew what the truth and reality is, then you too would be able to tell how and why the truth and reality is known. But you seem to prefer strawmanning instead.

You keep writing this as if under the illusion if you repeat often enough it will become accepted.

What truth and reality? And known to whom?

Once again we return to this dogmatic and arrogant attitude that only you and those who think as you do, have the ultimate "truth" and "reality". That attitude leads to bigotry, fanaticism, and murderous abuse.

So, now knowing how and why the truth and reality is known is "dogmatic and arrogant attitude"?

Unbelievers don't seem to have the honesty to admit that they don't know how and why the truth and reality is known to them, but are satisfied in themselves to pretend that they do is a delusional ignorance that can only stem from their arrogant and misplaced pride.

 

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Actually my argument is for how and why the truth and reality is known to us, because if a believing mind is the only thing capable of making the truth and reality known to us, then it is only a believing mind that can define the truth and reality.



If you are not here to talk about how and why the truth and reality is known to us, but rather to talk about "psychological experiences of a schizophrenic", then you need to stop wasting everyone's time that are looking for the truth and reality.



Strawman. Actually when I say 'us' I am only referring to and denoting those who take serious how and why the truth and reality is known to 'us'. And I am not referring or denoting those "people" who want to wallow in the "psychological experiences of a schizophrenic" strawmen. Good luck with that.



Another strawman. Again, I am not referring or denoting those "people" who want to wallow in the "psychological experiences of a schizophrenic" or engaging in delusional strawmanning. Rather I am only referring to and denoting those who take serious how and why the truth and reality is known to 'us'.
And because you are engaged in so much strawmanning here, then 'we' can only conclude that you are not interested in the truth and reality either? But you are welcomed to correct me if I am wrong and seriously engage me in a discussion of just how and why the truth and reality is known to 'us". Do you want this?



Another strawman. Remember, I am only referring to and denoting those who take serious how and why the truth and reality is known to 'us'. And not "those" "beating the demon/devil out of a child".

And you are equivocating people "saved" from something and what biblical 'saved' or salvation refers to and denotes; in the saving of oneself from themselves, because the and reality of God requires belief and a believing mind in order to be known.



Demons don't affect the truth and reality of God, rather "demons affect" those who disbelieve in the truth and reality of God.

Actually I have shown on many occasions that the truth and reality is the result of God's Original Believing Mind, as all truth and reality originates in and with Him for whomever is willing to believe in His reality and will (His Kingdom).



Another strawman. No, my claim is that the truth and reality is the result of a believing mind. So, the truth and reality must be the object of Someone's Believing Mind. And if it isn't mine, yours or any other human's, then the truth and reality must be the object of God's Mind.



Strawman. Actually if the truth and reality is the object of God's Mind, then it isn't a unbeliever's to begin with, because it is only believers who in believing in accordance with God that makes His truth and reality the believer's aka His children's.



More strawmanning. Actually I am suggesting that if the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality must be the object of a Believing Mind



Evasion. Do you believe or disbelieve that Trump was president in 2019?



Well if you don't know how and why the truth and reality is known to you, then admit it and stop pretending that it is known to you. We can then discuss how and why it is made known to 'us".



And again, I am not referring to what "unsavoury individuals and regimes" think, but how and why the truth and reality is known to anyone who wants to believe it.



You either believe morality exists or you don't. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways, you either believe in the existence of morality or you are immoral. It is a mutually exclusive and exhaustive proposition.



People who prey upon those who are too young to understand the consequences of sex.



Of course, believers are what 'we' believe 'we' are in God's reality, our soul and spirit requires a believing mind in order to enter God's reality and Kingdom.



Strawman. I know what the truth and reality is; the truth is what is believed in order to make reality known.



Evasion. Do you believe or disbelieve that Trump was president in 2019?



The Arbiter of the truth and reality. As if you knew what the truth and reality is, then you too would be able to tell how and why the truth and reality is known. But you seem to prefer strawmanning instead.



So, now knowing how and why the truth and reality is known is "dogmatic and arrogant attitude"?

Unbelievers don't seem to have the honesty to admit that they don't know how and why the truth and reality is known to them, but are satisfied in themselves to pretend that they do is a delusional ignorance that can only stem from their arrogant and misplaced pride.

I do not think you actually know what the term "strawman" means. You keep throwing it in as an excuse to avoid addressing questions. I would contend that if anyone is using the fallacy of a "strawman" [i.e. an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted] is yourself.

Given that you have not defined what you understand by:
a "believing mind". "truth", "reality".


As for morality existing - whose morality do you have in mind?

 

[Tercon]

I do not think you actually know what the term "strawman" means. You keep throwing it in as an excuse to avoid addressing questions. I would contend that if anyone is using the fallacy of a "strawman" [i.e. an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted] is yourself.

More strawmanning and projection, actually I do know what "strawman means". However, you obviously don't know when you are doing it.
Also, I showed in my post #133 that you made in your post #132 several strawmen and you weren't able to defend your strawmen. So, you have conceded that you were in fact committing the fallacy strawmanning.

Given that you have not defined what you understand by: a "believing mind". "truth", "reality".

Strawman. Actually I have made the argument that the truth and reality are the result of or object of a believing mind. And you have not refuted that claim.

Also, you seem to think ignorance of how and why the truth and reality is known is a virtue, rather than your demise.

As for morality existing - whose morality do you have in mind?

If you disbelieve that morality objectively exists, then that makes you without morality.

And you didn't answer the question: Do you believe or disbelieve that Trump was president in 2019?

 

[Tiburon]

Actually the Bible and Quantum Mechanics suggests otherwise.

In the Bible and Quantum Mechanics both require and logically entail a believing mind in order for the truth and reality of God to be known and, WFC and entanglement to have a way and place to occur. So, if even WFC and entanglement requires and logically entails a believing mind for physicality to have a way and place to occur and exist, then even physicality requires and logically entails a believing mind to occur and exist too.
Therefore, knowledge of the truth, reality, WFC and entanglement all require a believing mind for a way and place to occur. And outside or without a believing mind none of these things can be known to exist or occur.
And if consciousness is life and consciousness requires and logically entails a believing mind in order to be known to occur and exist, then a believing mind must be the primary source of life and consciousness.

We know that brains die. But we don't and can't know or experience a believing minds demise, because all knowing and experiencing too requires and logically entails a believing mind in order to occur in reality.

Actually the Bible and Quantum Mechanics do not suggests otherwise.
Neither the Bible nor Quantum Mechanics has anything to say about whether the mind is generated by that brain or not.
We know that brains die. But we don't and can't know or experience a believing minds demise because a mind requires a living brain.

 

[mikeT]

According to the Bible God uses belief in order to make Himself and everything including revelation He wants known to believers.

According to your link, there's no biblical evidence that God uses belief to accomplish anything.

You simply searched scripture for instances of the text "belie", and assumed they all support your claim.

They don't. None of them do.

For example, the first "hit" returned from your link is as follows:

Matthew 8:13
And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.​

Nothing in there about God using belief "to make Himself and everything including revelation He wants known to believers"

 

[Tercon]

Actually the Bible and Quantum Mechanics do not suggests otherwise.
Neither the Bible nor Quantum Mechanics has anything to say about whether the mind is generated by that brain or not.
We know that brains die. But we don't and can't know or experience a believing minds demise because a mind requires a living brain.

Strawman. That's not my claim at all. Rather that the Bible and Jesus propogates belief and believing as the only means by which the truth and reality is known. And Quantum Mechanics uses observation and measurement to develop their models, both of which require and logically entails a believing mind in order to occur.

Actually it is the believing mind that lives and is conscious, the brain is nothing more than a rock when the believing mind is no longer present.

 

[Tercon]

According to your link, there's no biblical evidence that God uses belief to accomplish anything. You simply searched scripture for instances of the text "belie", and assumed they all support your claim.

They don't. None of them do.

You're delusional, as how can the Bible mention belief and believing over 500 times and not say anything about beliefs capacity to make anything known?

For example, the first "hit" returned from your link is as follows:

Matthew 8:13​

And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.​

Really, so Jesus using "the" centurion's own belief to heal "his servant" as nothing to do with "God using belief"?

Nothing in there about God using belief "to make Himself and everything including revelation He wants known to believers"

Imagine, faith being belief in God's truth and reality and this poster would have you disbelieve that the Bible says anything about God using belief and believing as a means to make Himself and His truth and reality known to believers. Is there anyone here deluded enough to disbelieve that the Bible propagates belief and believing as the means by which God makes Himself known to believers? Except for unbelievers that is.

The Bible mentions belief and believing 500+ times.

Let us look at just one chapter of the Bible (John 14) and to see if what the poster is saying is true:

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence. (John 14)

So, what do you think Reader; does the Bible and Jesus propagate belief and believing as a means to make God known?

 

[mikeT]

You're delusional, as how can the Bible mention belief and believing over 500 times and not say anything about beliefs capacity to make anything known?

If I'm delusional, find text in the bible which talks about belief's capacity to make things known.

You wont, and worse, you won't even try - because the bible never does.