Missing Doctrines?

imJRR

Active member
You could just read the many books (over 150) written by KJV-only authors to see the proof or see what they claim.

Some time ago I sat across from a man who said, "I would seriously question the salvation of a person who says he/she came to saving faith in Christ using any version other than the KJV." To say I consider that statement to be "wrong" is the biggest UNDERSTATEMENT of the month anyone here will read.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
Some time ago I sat across from a man who said, "I would seriously question the salvation of a person who says he/she came to saving faith in Christ using any version other than the KJV." To say I consider that statement to be "wrong" is the biggest UNDERSTATEMENT of the month anyone here will read.
God have mercy. He plainly didn't realize (I hope!) that he was questioning the salvation of the apostles and Paul, as well as all believers pre-1611! And all non-English speakers of all time! 🙄

--Rich
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
He was/is definitely the most extreme case of KJVONLYism I've ever encountered.
I had a friend who may have been a close runner-up! When I asked about non-English speakers and the KJV, he said God would give them the gift of interpretation of tongues!

--Rich
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
I had a friend who may have been a close runner-up! When I asked about non-English speakers and the KJV, he said God would give them the gift of interpretation of tongues!

--Rich
Both of those folks were out of line and wrong. Salvation is a gift of God through Jesus the Christ. While I stay with the KJV , as led by God to do so, and believe it is still the best English translation salvation is a work of God, and only He gets to make that decision.
 

JDS

Well-known member
I had a friend who may have been a close runner-up! When I asked about non-English speakers and the KJV, he said God would give them the gift of interpretation of tongues!

--Rich
It is strange how almost all people who are truly converted to Christ have never read any bible before their conversion. It is interesting that God did not provide any written testimony of himself until human history was 2500 years old, yet, several of those examples of justified by faith saints in Hebrews 11 lived during those days. How did they become justified without a bible? It would be interesting to hear how some of you know it all people would answer that question.

When Jesus Christ said to suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, he did not instruct them to have 4 years of Hebrew and Greek language training. How could a little child be converted without a bible? When the apostle Paul took the gospel of Jesus Christ west to Europe he did not carry a written copy of the OT to preach to the gentiles. He did not even quote the OT to gentiles. Why do that? Out of his own mouth he said the things he was preaching to gentiles was hidden from the previous ages. What he was preaching was brand new revelation for the present age and it was he who was granted the wonderful privilege of taking the gospel of God to the world and saying, "

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.
17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1 We then, [as] workers together [with him], beseech [you] also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation)"


Sinners do not get saved by having a perfect bible or translation of a bible. They get saved by hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ and believing it. The sinner needs a perfect bible after he gets saved. God sends preachers, ambassadors, to sinners, not bibles, like the above witness. I desire a KJV bible, the perfect word of God, because I am saved. Before I was saved, it meant nothing to me.

The word of the Lord is preached before it is written.
 

JDS

Well-known member
Nobody seeems concerned about the loss of the doctrine about snake handling.
I am.

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

There has been three main responses to this passage.

1) consider it a command for all believers and bring some Rattlers to church with you.

2) be even more ignorant and offensive than group #1 and opt to question and remove 12 verses from the Bible because you don’t understand the context

3) believe this is actually an apostolic charge that applies to the 12 apostles and 70 elders who were the foundation of the church of Jesus Christ, Eph 2:20 and context, and were for the purpose of confirming their preaching was from God and was exclusive to these men.

I fall into group #3. What about you?
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
I am.

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

There has been three main responses to this passage.

1) consider it a command for all believers and bring some Rattlers to church with you.

2) be even more ignorant and offensive than group #1 and opt to question and remove 12 verses from the Bible because you don’t understand the context

3) believe this is actually an apostolic charge that applies to the 12 apostles and 70 elders who were the foundation of the church of Jesus Christ, Eph 2:20 and context, and were for the purpose of confirming their preaching was from God and was exclusive to these men.

I fall into group #3. What about you?
#3, with verification in Acts 28

--Rich
 

imJRR

Active member
It is strange how almost all people who are truly converted to Christ have never read any bible before their conversion. It is interesting that God did not provide any written testimony of himself until human history was 2500 years old, yet, several of those examples of justified by faith saints in Hebrews 11 lived during those days. How did they become justified without a bible? It would be interesting to hear how some of you know it all people would answer that question.

When Jesus Christ said to suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, he did not instruct them to have 4 years of Hebrew and Greek language training. How could a little child be converted without a bible? When the apostle Paul took the gospel of Jesus Christ west to Europe he did not carry a written copy of the OT to preach to the gentiles. He did not even quote the OT to gentiles. Why do that? Out of his own mouth he said the things he was preaching to gentiles was hidden from the previous ages. What he was preaching was brand new revelation for the present age and it was he who was granted the wonderful privilege of taking the gospel of God to the world and saying, "

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.
17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1 We then, [as] workers together [with him], beseech [you] also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation)"


Sinners do not get saved by having a perfect bible or translation of a bible. They get saved by hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ and believing it. The sinner needs a perfect bible after he gets saved. God sends preachers, ambassadors, to sinners, not bibles, like the above witness. I desire a KJV bible, the perfect word of God, because I am saved. Before I was saved, it meant nothing to me.

The word of the Lord is preached before it is written.

In your last paragraph, if you are saying or even hinting that a version other than the KJV will not lead a believer in Christ to fulfill 2 Peter 3:18, that is wrong and worse than wrong.
 

JDS

Well-known member
In your last paragraph, if you are saying or even hinting that a version other than the KJV will not lead a believer in Christ to fulfill 2 Peter 3:18, that is wrong and worse than wrong.

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Well, I assume you claim to be saved and it is likely the KJV is not your preferred bible. How are you doing? Are you growing in grace? Is your knowledge of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ increasing?

Since you are connecting Bible translations to this verse in particular, you could present yourself as evidence that it does not require the actual words of God to fulfill his command in 2 Peter 3:18. That is, if you can say you are growing in the knowledge of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ.
 

imJRR

Active member
I am doing well, thanks. Yes, in the time I have been a Christian, I have grown in grace and in the knowledge of Christ.
 

JDS

Well-known member
I am doing well, thanks. Yes, in the time I have been a Christian, I have grown in grace and in the knowledge of Christ.
I do not know if this describes you but I know that most people mistakes learning the nuances of their adopted systematic religion for knowledge of Christ. What translation you favor has nothing at all to do with proving the system right or wrong. The proof of this is because someone with an opposing religious system could make the same claim of growing in Christ while favoring the exact translation. It seems therefore to me that this is the real reason for the acceptance of so many translations and paraphrases. Most Christian religions do not get their knowledge of Christ from their bibles. It comes from the fertile minds of the foundational heads of their denominations, movements, or groups.

That is the way I see it.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
I do not know if this describes you but I know that most people mistakes learning the nuances of their adopted systematic religion for knowledge of Christ. What translation you favor has nothing at all to do with proving the system right or wrong. The proof of this is because someone with an opposing religious system could make the same claim of growing in Christ while favoring the exact translation. It seems therefore to me that this is the real reason for the acceptance of so many translations and paraphrases. Most Christian religions do not get their knowledge of Christ from their bibles. It comes from the fertile minds of the foundational heads of their denominations, movements, or groups.

That is the way I see it.
Is this like JWs pre-1950, or Mormons, or Christian Scientists (as well as Calvinists and Arminians pre-1880) all using the KJV? I'm puzzled...
 

imJRR

Active member
I do not know if this describes you but I know that most people mistakes learning the nuances of their adopted systematic religion for knowledge of Christ. What translation you favor has nothing at all to do with proving the system right or wrong. The proof of this is because someone with an opposing religious system could make the same claim of growing in Christ while favoring the exact translation. It seems therefore to me that this is the real reason for the acceptance of so many translations and paraphrases. Most Christian religions do not get their knowledge of Christ from their bibles. It comes from the fertile minds of the foundational heads of their denominations, movements, or groups.

That is the way I see it.

I'm sure it is.
 

JDS

Well-known member
Is this like JWs pre-1950, or Mormons, or Christian Scientists (as well as Calvinists and Arminians pre-1880) all using the KJV? I'm puzzled...
Yes. There is nothing magic about the KJV. Just because people use it the same way they do the bibles they have written to replace it does not mean they were any less deceived by their movement founder because he was using a KJV. The Jews of Jesus days on earth had the OT but Jesus accused them of adding oral traditions to it, thus making it their bible and not his. The groups you mention above have all kinds of oral traditions and additions. None of the groups you mention above can be trusted.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
Mk
Jesus accused them of adding oral traditions to it, thus making it their bible and not his.
See Mark 7:5-13, esp. 13: Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. [KJV]

Seems like Jesus still considered it His word...


None of the groups you mention above can be trusted.
I had no intention of trapping you, but you are saying Calvinists and contra-Calvinists (what the Calvinists call Arminians) can not be trusted??
Who's left??

--Rich
 
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