Modern translations/ scriptural support ?

En Hakkore

Well-known member
Wrong ! Just take sodomite in the majority text changed to temple prostitute in the minority text. Sodom-sodomy- sodomite. It isn’t rocket science.
Your reply has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I posted, but for the sake of not letting such ignorant comments as the above go without correction, this is not a so-called majority/minority text issue at all and there is no variance underlying the shift in modern translations from the archaic term 'sodomite' to 'temple prostitute'. The underlying Hebrew word is קדש (kadesh), which is etymologically linked to the identical verbal root kadash and the noun kodesh meaning 'to consecrate' and 'holy' respectively. The word in question refers to cultic personnel who engaged in ritual prostitution in connection with a sacred place... it has both masculine and feminine forms, the latter occurring in the story of Judah and Tamar (Gen 38:21-22) where the KJV translates it as 'harlot'. That's another word for a prostitute... and the cultic connection is brought out in modern versions where the temple is the locus of prostitution.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 

En Hakkore

Well-known member
I believe that the Lord will assist us all, if we ask for assistance of course. Also, I believe that too many bible reading adults do NOT understand the underlying message/context of the Word of God! Yes His Word is a narrative and it is an historical account of the past and more over of Gods workings in our past...
As God is capable of creating atoms which are way to small to see but are pack with such enormous power at the same time, then surly He is able to preserve His Word for ions...
So how many of us bible readers even know, that the Word of God saves and is for salvation of our very immortal souls ?
Unlike a well written Novel, the Word of God hits the nail on the head right from the start, that being, the fall of all mankind which sends us all to eternal doom in hell. Better still, as bonus, He also shows us at the same and tells us how!! we are to be save..
Thanks for sharing your thoughts... as they are homiletic in nature rather than geared toward discussion of the topic of this sub-forum, I will not be engaging with them any further.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Your reply has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I posted, but for the sake of not letting such ignorant comments as the above go without correction, this is not a so-called majority/minority text issue at all and there is no variance underlying the shift in modern translations from the archaic term 'sodomite' to 'temple prostitute'. The underlying Hebrew word is קדש (kadesh), which is etymologically linked to the identical verbal root kadash and the noun kodesh meaning 'to consecrate' and 'holy' respectively. The word in question refers to cultic personnel who engaged in ritual prostitution in connection with a sacred place... it has both masculine and feminine forms, the latter occurring in the story of Judah and Tamar (Gen 38:21-22) where the KJV translates it as 'harlot'. That's another word for a prostitute... and the cultic connection is brought out in modern versions where the temple is the locus of prostitution.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
You ignored the obvious yet again Sodom-sodomy- sodomite. It appears you have studied yourself right out of common sense all my with the bigger picture of the sodimite influences on modern translations .The ignorance is falling for the watering down of God’s word to accommodate the agenda.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Thanks for sharing your thoughts... as they are homiletic in nature rather than geared toward discussion of the topic of this sub-forum, I will not be engaging with them any further.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
good news is always welcome,, may The Lord Yeshua bless you..
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
You ignored the obvious yet again Sodom-sodomy- sodomite. It appears you have studied yourself right out of common sense all my with the bigger picture of the sodimite influences on modern translations .The ignorance is falling for the watering down of God’s word to accommodate the agenda.

I wonder why so many people have sodomy in their thoughts morning, noon and night. Obsession isn't a healthy endeavor.

This particular argument is without merit. Liberals use it against you because you don't know what the OT teaches.


Learn to read and understand what the OT teaches and in what context.
 

rossh

Well-known member
I wonder why so many people have sodomy in their thoughts morning, noon and night. Obsession isn't a healthy endeavor.

This particular argument is without merit. Liberals use it against you because you don't know what the OT teaches.


Learn to read and understand what the OT teaches and in what context.
so why the OT of all things, I my case, I am NOT Jewish and before you say anything look at what happened to the Hebrew/Jewish/Israelites since they had their own Messiah killed, even up to this very day/time ?

The New testament is the new promise of the OT delivered, as promised of God, to all who truly believe in His Only Begotten Son as He truly being the long awaited Messiah...
 

rossh

Well-known member
Your reply has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I posted, but for the sake of not letting such ignorant comments as the above go without correction, this is not a so-called majority/minority text issue at all and there is no variance underlying the shift in modern translations from the archaic term 'sodomite' to 'temple prostitute'. The underlying Hebrew word is קדש (kadesh), which is etymologically linked to the identical verbal root kadash and the noun kodesh meaning 'to consecrate' and 'holy' respectively. The word in question refers to cultic personnel who engaged in ritual prostitution in connection with a sacred place... it has both masculine and feminine forms, the latter occurring in the story of Judah and Tamar (Gen 38:21-22) where the KJV translates it as 'harlot'. That's another word for a prostitute... and the cultic connection is brought out in modern versions where the temple is the locus of prostitution.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
nice post but relevant to what I wonder ? No doubt you may know..... is it soul saving, then that would be great.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Thanks for sharing your thoughts... as they are homiletic in nature rather than geared toward discussion of the topic of this sub-forum, I will not be engaging with them any further.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
No, my thoughts are from the Word of God alone, as when we use Gods Word no one has to teach us anything at all...

As for anything being " homiletic " as you suggest, well that is just your supposition.. you alone need to deal with your claim/s.
 

CES1951

Active member
With all due respect to Beloved Daughter, and Matt Slick....in regards to several of your recent posts, I couldn't care less what Matt Slick thinks about something. You share his writings as if he's the ultimate authority. I think he's wrong on numerous topics.

There are two key things we learn from a study of the word baptizō: First, the word means “to immerse.” A ship sprinkled with water would not sink. Cloth sprinkled with dye would not change color..........It might be better if we would simply use the word “immerse”......... for that is what “baptism” means.


THE ORDINANCE OF WATER BAPTISM​

The word "Baptism" is a transliteration of the Greek word BAPTIZO which means to immerse. In Hebrew it is referred to as a MIKVEH - an immersion. Basically it is an immersion into another substance, for the purpose of being saturated by it, such as water in this instance.The new covenant also presents the immersion of a believer "in the Spirit of God" and also "with Fire". Matthew 3:11

  • Baptizo: “To make a thing dipped or dyed. To immerse for a religious purpose” (A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, E.W. Bullinger).
  • Baptizo: “Dip, immerse, mid. Dip oneself, wash (in non-Christian lit. also ‘plunge, sink, drench, overwhelm. . . .’)” (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Arndt and Gingrich, p. 131).
  • Baptizo: “immersion, submersion” (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Grimm-Thayer, p. 94).
  • Baptizo:to dip, immerse, sink” (Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament, Abbott-Smith, p. 74).
  • Baptizo:dip, plunge” (A Greek-English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott, p. 305).
  • Baptizo: consisting of the process of immersion, submersion and emergence (from bapto, to dip)” (Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, W. E. Vine).
  • Baptizo: immerse, submerge. The peculiar N.T. and Christian use of the word to denote immersion, submersion for a religious purpose” (Biblico-Theological Lexicon of the New Testament Greek, Cremer).
  • Baptizo: “to dip, immerse; to cleanse or purify by washing” (The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Perschbacher, p. 66).
  • Baptizo: “to dip, to immerse, to sink. . . . There is no evidence that Luke or Paul and the other writers of the New Testament put upon this verb meanings not recognized by the Greeks” (Greek and English Lexicon, Sophocles).
  • Baptizo: “Bapto is the basic verb. It means ‘to dip in’ or ‘to dip under.’ It is often used of dipping fabric in a dye. Baptizo is an intensive form of bapto. From early times it was used in the sense of immersing” (Expository Dictionary of Bible Words, Lawrence O. Richards, pp. 100-101).
  • Baptizo: Baptizo, immerse” (Word Study Greek-English New Testament, Paul. R. McReynolds, p. 907).
  • Baptizo: “The meaning of bapto and baptizo. bapto, ‘to dip in or under,’ ‘to dye,’ ‘to immerse,’ ‘to sink,’ ‘to drown,’ ‘to bathe,’ wash.'” (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, One Volume, ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley, p. 92).
  • Baptizo: “Baptizo 77x pr. to dip, immerse; to cleanse or purify by washing; to administer the rite of baptism, to baptize” (Greek and English Interlinear New Testament, William D. Mounce and Robert H. Mounce, p. 1028).
  • https://truediscipleship.com/how-is-baptism-defined-by-greek-dictionaries-3/

Don't see "sprinkle" in there anywhere.
 
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En Hakkore

Well-known member
nice post but relevant to what I wonder ?
It was relevant to the general critique of the KJV Onlyist position around which this particular sub-forum revolves.

is it soul saving, then that would be great.
People come to CARM for all sorts of reasons and those reasons may change over time. Some come to evangelize others and that is certainly their prerogative, but that is not the reason I am here. I've been posting here off and on for over twenty years... presently I do so to contribute to topics of personal interest from an academic perspective (I hold graduate degrees in theological and biblical studies) and take periodic sabbaticals to focus on writing commitments.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 

En Hakkore

Well-known member
No, my thoughts are from the Word of God alone, as when we use Gods Word no one has to teach us anything at all...

As for anything being " homiletic " as you suggest, well that is just your supposition.. you alone need to deal with your claim/s.
A homily is another word for a sermon... I'm not sure why you seem to disapprove of that evaluation. That you have a source for your thoughts does not make them any less yours when you absorb and pass them along as you have... this is particularly true insofar as the source text in question is interpreted quite differently based on diverse hermeneutical approaches. Implying that your interpretation and conveyance of its content is flawless in correspondence is presumptuous, to say the least. Since this is the KJV Onlyism forum, however, it would help to know what your position is in relation to the topic... are you a proponent or a critic?

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 

rossh

Well-known member
A homily is another word for a sermon... I'm not sure why you seem to disapprove of that evaluation. That you have a source for your thoughts does not make them any less yours when you absorb and pass them along as you have... this is particularly true insofar as the source text in question is interpreted quite differently based on diverse hermeneutical approaches. Implying that your interpretation and conveyance of its content is flawless in correspondence is presumptuous, to say the least. Since this is the KJV Onlyism forum, however, it would help to know what your position is in relation to the topic... are you a proponent or a critic?

Kind regards,
Jonathan
Well, this is a great reply and thank you. How ever, I do not see nor regard the Word of God as an issue to be deciphered, per se. I hear and receive the Word of God as Gods very own Word, to be prayed over, to read and to simply accept as is. Gods Word and truth.. There is only one true " church " and all others are, as they say, Cults. Cults are churches who are/have been set up by mortals with mere mortal understandings.. Lucifer is the unseen and deceptive leader of such organizations and, they all have one trait in common, common to all cults.. The persecution of all of it's ordinary members is the attitude of all cults.

So, if you know how to pray, first pray to the Lord for guidance in reading and understanding His Word. The read scripture and accept His Word as the pure truth of salvation. God has not made the salvation of all mankind an ordeal and or vey hard to achieve. His salvation is free to who simply believe in His one and only flesh and blood Son, Yehsua.

Authority, Development and False Doctrine,,, are cults alive and dead to God..
 

rossh

Well-known member
It was relevant to the general critique of the KJV Onlyist position around which this particular sub-forum revolves.


People come to CARM for all sorts of reasons and those reasons may change over time. Some come to evangelize others and that is certainly their prerogative, but that is not the reason I am here. I've been posting here off and on for over twenty years... presently I do so to contribute to topics of personal interest from an academic perspective (I hold graduate degrees in theological and biblical studies) and take periodic sabbaticals to focus on writing commitments.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
Have you had to pay for your " Degrees " in Biblical Studies ? If so, you could have saved all the coin by simply asking the Lord God to explain His Word to you... The KJV came out of RCC decree that non Priests were not allowed to read Gods Word. King James the VI authorized it's translation and printing..
 

rossh

Well-known member
With all due respect to Beloved Daughter, and Matt Slick....in regards to several of your recent posts, I couldn't care less what Matt Slick thinks about something. You share his writings as if he's the ultimate authority. I think he's wrong on numerous topics.

There are two key things we learn from a study of the word baptizō: First, the word means “to immerse.” A ship sprinkled with water would not sink. Cloth sprinkled with dye would not change color..........It might be better if we would simply use the word “immerse”......... for that is what “baptism” means.


THE ORDINANCE OF WATER BAPTISM​

The word "Baptism" is a transliteration of the Greek word BAPTIZO which means to immerse. In Hebrew it is referred to as a MIKVEH - an immersion. Basically it is an immersion into another substance, for the purpose of being saturated by it, such as water in this instance.The new covenant also presents the immersion of a believer "in the Spirit of God" and also "with Fire". Matthew 3:11

  • Baptizo: “To make a thing dipped or dyed. To immerse for a religious purpose” (A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, E.W. Bullinger).
  • Baptizo: “Dip, immerse, mid. Dip oneself, wash (in non-Christian lit. also ‘plunge, sink, drench, overwhelm. . . .’)” (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Arndt and Gingrich, p. 131).
  • Baptizo: “immersion, submersion” (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Grimm-Thayer, p. 94).
  • Baptizo:to dip, immerse, sink” (Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament, Abbott-Smith, p. 74).
  • Baptizo:dip, plunge” (A Greek-English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott, p. 305).
  • Baptizo: consisting of the process of immersion, submersion and emergence (from bapto, to dip)” (Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, W. E. Vine).
  • Baptizo: immerse, submerge. The peculiar N.T. and Christian use of the word to denote immersion, submersion for a religious purpose” (Biblico-Theological Lexicon of the New Testament Greek, Cremer).
  • Baptizo: “to dip, immerse; to cleanse or purify by washing” (The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Perschbacher, p. 66).
  • Baptizo: “to dip, to immerse, to sink. . . . There is no evidence that Luke or Paul and the other writers of the New Testament put upon this verb meanings not recognized by the Greeks” (Greek and English Lexicon, Sophocles).
  • Baptizo: “Bapto is the basic verb. It means ‘to dip in’ or ‘to dip under.’ It is often used of dipping fabric in a dye. Baptizo is an intensive form of bapto. From early times it was used in the sense of immersing” (Expository Dictionary of Bible Words, Lawrence O. Richards, pp. 100-101).
  • Baptizo: Baptizo, immerse” (Word Study Greek-English New Testament, Paul. R. McReynolds, p. 907).
  • Baptizo: “The meaning of bapto and baptizo. bapto, ‘to dip in or under,’ ‘to dye,’ ‘to immerse,’ ‘to sink,’ ‘to drown,’ ‘to bathe,’ wash.'” (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, One Volume, ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley, p. 92).
  • Baptizo: “Baptizo 77x pr. to dip, immerse; to cleanse or purify by washing; to administer the rite of baptism, to baptize” (Greek and English Interlinear New Testament, William D. Mounce and Robert H. Mounce, p. 1028).
  • https://truediscipleship.com/how-is-baptism-defined-by-greek-dictionaries-3/

Don't see "sprinkle" in there anywhere.
Great post there. This takes me back to my adult " immersion " at my local Baptist Church. The Church actually had a small Pool built next to the alter Tables where we were each fully dunked ( immersed ) not the water therein.. BTW the little pool was heated for the winter times. We were advised to wear eye goggles and to hold our nose shut tight, for the moment of dunking..
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
Have you had to pay for your " Degrees " in Biblical Studies ? If so, you could have saved all the coin by simply asking the Lord God to explain His Word to you... The KJV came out of RCC decree that non Priests were not allowed to read Gods Word. King James the VI authorized it's translation and printing..
So what happens when another person tells you God explains His word to that person, in a definition that is differem from your interpretation.
 

rossh

Well-known member
So what happens when another person tells you God explains His word to that person, in a definition that is differem from your interpretation.
That again is just supposition ????? I do not interpret the Word of God, I pray for guidance, then read and then simply, truly believe!

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. See, that is it, bingo! God created the heavens and the earth.. There is no hidden agenda in that, nor is there and mystery that only special people understand...

How can there be any " different " meanings, to any of Gods Word ?
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
That again is just supposition ????? I do not interpret the Word of God, I pray for guidance, then read and then simply, truly believe!

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. See, that is it, bingo! God created the heavens and the earth.. There is no hidden agenda in that, nor is there and mystery that only special people understand...

How can there be any " different " meanings, to any of Gods Word ?
Of course you do. you cannot deny whatever has made you the person you are does not influence you. Or perhaps you are claiming you have perfect understanding.

we only have to look at the history of Christians and we know they do not all agree.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Of course you do. you cannot deny whatever has made you the person you are does not influence you. Or perhaps you are claiming you have perfect understanding.

we only have to look at the history of Christians and we know they do not all agree.
Not sure what you are on about but I do notice more suppositions..
LOL, when ever has mankind ever fully agreed on anything ? One side of the earth/world is in Darkness yet at the same time the other side of the earth/word is in sunshine! The earth is never the exact same ?
No one is perfect and thank God we have God to sport it all out for us.. The very sad story of Adam, this shows us how man is, Adam had it all, yet he managed to ruin it all for himself, his woman and for all mankind..
 

rossh

Well-known member
So what happens when another person tells you God explains His word to that person, in a definition that is differem from your interpretation.
I just leave them to their consequences, it has nothing to do with me has it ?
 

rossh

Well-known member
Of course you do. you cannot deny whatever has made you the person you are does not influence you. Or perhaps you are claiming you have perfect understanding.

we only have to look at the history of Christians and we know they do not all agree.
well of course, that has been very obvious since Adam.....
 
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