Modern translations/ scriptural support ?

rossh

Well-known member
A homily is another word for a sermon... I'm not sure why you seem to disapprove of that evaluation. That you have a source for your thoughts does not make them any less yours when you absorb and pass them along as you have... this is particularly true insofar as the source text in question is interpreted quite differently based on diverse hermeneutical approaches. Implying that your interpretation and conveyance of its content is flawless in correspondence is presumptuous, to say the least. Since this is the KJV Onlyism forum, however, it would help to know what your position is in relation to the topic... are you a proponent or a critic?

Kind regards,
Jonathan
Well, this is a great reply and thank you. How ever, I do not see nor regard the Word of God as an issue to be deciphered, per se. I hear and receive the Word of God as Gods very own Word, to be prayed over, to read and to simply accept as is. Gods Word and truth.. There is only one true " church " and all others are, as they say, Cults. Cults are churches who are/have been set up by mortals with mere mortal understandings.. Lucifer is the unseen and deceptive leader of such organizations and, they all have one trait in common, common to all cults.. The persecution of all of it's ordinary members is the attitude of all cults.

So, if you know how to pray, first pray to the Lord for guidance in reading and understanding His Word. The read scripture and accept His Word as the pure truth of salvation. God has not made the salvation of all mankind an ordeal and or vey hard to achieve. His salvation is free to who simply believe in His one and only flesh and blood Son, Yehsua.

Authority, Development and False Doctrine,,, are cults alive and dead to God..
 

rossh

Well-known member
It was relevant to the general critique of the KJV Onlyist position around which this particular sub-forum revolves.


People come to CARM for all sorts of reasons and those reasons may change over time. Some come to evangelize others and that is certainly their prerogative, but that is not the reason I am here. I've been posting here off and on for over twenty years... presently I do so to contribute to topics of personal interest from an academic perspective (I hold graduate degrees in theological and biblical studies) and take periodic sabbaticals to focus on writing commitments.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
Have you had to pay for your " Degrees " in Biblical Studies ? If so, you could have saved all the coin by simply asking the Lord God to explain His Word to you... The KJV came out of RCC decree that non Priests were not allowed to read Gods Word. King James the VI authorized it's translation and printing..
 

rossh

Well-known member
With all due respect to Beloved Daughter, and Matt Slick....in regards to several of your recent posts, I couldn't care less what Matt Slick thinks about something. You share his writings as if he's the ultimate authority. I think he's wrong on numerous topics.

There are two key things we learn from a study of the word baptizō: First, the word means “to immerse.” A ship sprinkled with water would not sink. Cloth sprinkled with dye would not change color..........It might be better if we would simply use the word “immerse”......... for that is what “baptism” means.


THE ORDINANCE OF WATER BAPTISM​

The word "Baptism" is a transliteration of the Greek word BAPTIZO which means to immerse. In Hebrew it is referred to as a MIKVEH - an immersion. Basically it is an immersion into another substance, for the purpose of being saturated by it, such as water in this instance.The new covenant also presents the immersion of a believer "in the Spirit of God" and also "with Fire". Matthew 3:11

  • Baptizo: “To make a thing dipped or dyed. To immerse for a religious purpose” (A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, E.W. Bullinger).
  • Baptizo: “Dip, immerse, mid. Dip oneself, wash (in non-Christian lit. also ‘plunge, sink, drench, overwhelm. . . .’)” (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Arndt and Gingrich, p. 131).
  • Baptizo: “immersion, submersion” (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Grimm-Thayer, p. 94).
  • Baptizo:to dip, immerse, sink” (Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament, Abbott-Smith, p. 74).
  • Baptizo:dip, plunge” (A Greek-English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott, p. 305).
  • Baptizo: consisting of the process of immersion, submersion and emergence (from bapto, to dip)” (Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, W. E. Vine).
  • Baptizo: immerse, submerge. The peculiar N.T. and Christian use of the word to denote immersion, submersion for a religious purpose” (Biblico-Theological Lexicon of the New Testament Greek, Cremer).
  • Baptizo: “to dip, immerse; to cleanse or purify by washing” (The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Perschbacher, p. 66).
  • Baptizo: “to dip, to immerse, to sink. . . . There is no evidence that Luke or Paul and the other writers of the New Testament put upon this verb meanings not recognized by the Greeks” (Greek and English Lexicon, Sophocles).
  • Baptizo: “Bapto is the basic verb. It means ‘to dip in’ or ‘to dip under.’ It is often used of dipping fabric in a dye. Baptizo is an intensive form of bapto. From early times it was used in the sense of immersing” (Expository Dictionary of Bible Words, Lawrence O. Richards, pp. 100-101).
  • Baptizo: Baptizo, immerse” (Word Study Greek-English New Testament, Paul. R. McReynolds, p. 907).
  • Baptizo: “The meaning of bapto and baptizo. bapto, ‘to dip in or under,’ ‘to dye,’ ‘to immerse,’ ‘to sink,’ ‘to drown,’ ‘to bathe,’ wash.'” (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, One Volume, ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley, p. 92).
  • Baptizo: “Baptizo 77x pr. to dip, immerse; to cleanse or purify by washing; to administer the rite of baptism, to baptize” (Greek and English Interlinear New Testament, William D. Mounce and Robert H. Mounce, p. 1028).
  • https://truediscipleship.com/how-is-baptism-defined-by-greek-dictionaries-3/

Don't see "sprinkle" in there anywhere.
Great post there. This takes me back to my adult " immersion " at my local Baptist Church. The Church actually had a small Pool built next to the alter Tables where we were each fully dunked ( immersed ) not the water therein.. BTW the little pool was heated for the winter times. We were advised to wear eye goggles and to hold our nose shut tight, for the moment of dunking..
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
Have you had to pay for your " Degrees " in Biblical Studies ? If so, you could have saved all the coin by simply asking the Lord God to explain His Word to you... The KJV came out of RCC decree that non Priests were not allowed to read Gods Word. King James the VI authorized it's translation and printing..
So what happens when another person tells you God explains His word to that person, in a definition that is differem from your interpretation.
 

rossh

Well-known member
So what happens when another person tells you God explains His word to that person, in a definition that is differem from your interpretation.
That again is just supposition ????? I do not interpret the Word of God, I pray for guidance, then read and then simply, truly believe!

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. See, that is it, bingo! God created the heavens and the earth.. There is no hidden agenda in that, nor is there and mystery that only special people understand...

How can there be any " different " meanings, to any of Gods Word ?
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
That again is just supposition ????? I do not interpret the Word of God, I pray for guidance, then read and then simply, truly believe!

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. See, that is it, bingo! God created the heavens and the earth.. There is no hidden agenda in that, nor is there and mystery that only special people understand...

How can there be any " different " meanings, to any of Gods Word ?
Of course you do. you cannot deny whatever has made you the person you are does not influence you. Or perhaps you are claiming you have perfect understanding.

we only have to look at the history of Christians and we know they do not all agree.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Of course you do. you cannot deny whatever has made you the person you are does not influence you. Or perhaps you are claiming you have perfect understanding.

we only have to look at the history of Christians and we know they do not all agree.
Not sure what you are on about but I do notice more suppositions..
LOL, when ever has mankind ever fully agreed on anything ? One side of the earth/world is in Darkness yet at the same time the other side of the earth/word is in sunshine! The earth is never the exact same ?
No one is perfect and thank God we have God to sport it all out for us.. The very sad story of Adam, this shows us how man is, Adam had it all, yet he managed to ruin it all for himself, his woman and for all mankind..
 

rossh

Well-known member
So what happens when another person tells you God explains His word to that person, in a definition that is differem from your interpretation.
I just leave them to their consequences, it has nothing to do with me has it ?
 

rossh

Well-known member
Of course you do. you cannot deny whatever has made you the person you are does not influence you. Or perhaps you are claiming you have perfect understanding.

we only have to look at the history of Christians and we know they do not all agree.
well of course, that has been very obvious since Adam.....
 

En Hakkore

Well-known member
Well, this is a great reply and thank you. How ever, I do not see nor regard the Word of God as an issue to be deciphered, per se. I hear and receive the Word of God as Gods very own Word, to be prayed over, to read and to simply accept as is. Gods Word and truth.. There is only one true " church " and all others are, as they say, Cults. Cults are churches who are/have been set up by mortals with mere mortal understandings.. Lucifer is the unseen and deceptive leader of such organizations and, they all have one trait in common, common to all cults.. The persecution of all of it's ordinary members is the attitude of all cults.

So, if you know how to pray, first pray to the Lord for guidance in reading and understanding His Word. The read scripture and accept His Word as the pure truth of salvation. God has not made the salvation of all mankind an ordeal and or vey hard to achieve. His salvation is free to who simply believe in His one and only flesh and blood Son, Yehsua.

Authority, Development and False Doctrine,,, are cults alive and dead to God..
Have you had to pay for your " Degrees " in Biblical Studies ? If so, you could have saved all the coin by simply asking the Lord God to explain His Word to you... The KJV came out of RCC decree that non Priests were not allowed to read Gods Word. King James the VI authorized it's translation and printing..
Failing to answer a direct question concerning your position vis-à-vis KJV Onlyism, parroting misinformation about why the KJV was commissioned and spewing anti-intellectualism together speak volumes. Yes, I contributed toward my degrees monetarily, though the fees were subsidized by a number of scholarships I was awarded. Who exactly do you think was involved in bringing forth the KJV, some peasants recruited from the English countryside who prayed about what words to print? Hypocritical anti-intellectualism is rife among proponents of KJV Onlyism because its claims are easily exposed as bogus by anyone who has taken the time to immerse themselves in the pertinent ancient languages and disciplines of textual criticism and translation theory, whether in an academic or lay setting. Objections to the English laity reading the Bible in the common vernacular were long over by 1604 when King James I of England and Ireland (James VI of Scotland) convened the Hampton Court Conference, out of which the idea for an authorized version emerged... the Great Bible (1539) and Geneva Bible (1560) both preceded it, the latter was even dedicated to James when he was ruling over only Scotland. Its anti-episcopal notes led to the so-called Bishops' Bible (1568), which became the official basis for the KJV "translation". Annotations were forbidden in the KJV because those of the Geneva Bible had been subversive of royal authority... the KJV was commissioned to provide an alternative to this version and its dedication revealed the political impetus of having a national church headed by James under divine right. I would recommend you exchange your current source of information about the KJV for a reputable one such as Gordon Campbell's Bible: The Story of the King James Version, 1611-2011 published by Oxford University Press. In the chapter on the KJV in the modern world there is even a section devoted to KJV Onlyism (pp 264-68).

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 

rossh

Well-known member
Failing to answer a direct question concerning your position vis-à-vis KJV Onlyism, parroting misinformation about why the KJV was commissioned and spewing anti-intellectualism together speak volumes. Yes, I contributed toward my degrees monetarily, though the fees were subsidized by a number of scholarships I was awarded. Who exactly do you think was involved in bringing forth the KJV, some peasants recruited from the English countryside who prayed about what words to print? Hypocritical anti-intellectualism is rife among proponents of KJV Onlyism because its claims are easily exposed as bogus by anyone who has taken the time to immerse themselves in the pertinent ancient languages and disciplines of textual criticism and translation theory, whether in an academic or lay setting. Objections to the English laity reading the Bible in the common vernacular were long over by 1604 when King James I of England and Ireland (James VI of Scotland) convened the Hampton Court Conference, out of which the idea for an authorized version emerged... the Great Bible (1539) and Geneva Bible (1560) both preceded it, the latter was even dedicated to James when he was ruling over only Scotland. Its anti-episcopal notes led to the so-called Bishops' Bible (1568), which became the official basis for the KJV "translation". Annotations were forbidden in the KJV because those of the Geneva Bible had been subversive of royal authority... the KJV was commissioned to provide an alternative to this version and its dedication revealed the political impetus of having a national church headed by James under divine right. I would recommend you exchange your current source of information about the KJV for a reputable one such as Gordon Campbell's Bible: The Story of the King James Version, 1611-2011 published by Oxford University Press. In the chapter on the KJV in the modern world there is even a section devoted to KJV Onlyism (pp 264-68).

Kind regards,
Jonathan
That is a stretch, are we now into, " accusations of errors, etc; etc; " ? The " holier than thou " begins. have I not always quoted Scripture ?
BTW, just so that you know I no longer use the KJ Bible I use the " Complete Jewish Bible ".. I never said anything about KJB only..
 

En Hakkore

Well-known member
That is a stretch, are we now into, " accusations of errors, etc; etc; " ? The " holier than thou " begins. have I not always quoted Scripture ?
BTW, just so that you know I no longer use the KJ Bible I use the " Complete Jewish Bible ".. I never said anything about KJB only..
Read my post carefully and you'll see I nowhere said you were a KJV Onlyist, though I did align your posting tactics of evasion, parroting misinformation and spewing anti-intellectualism with its proponents... and that observation stands.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 

rossh

Well-known member
Read my post carefully and you'll see I nowhere said you were a KJV Onlyist, though I did align your posting tactics of evasion, parroting misinformation and spewing anti-intellectualism with its proponents... and that observation stands.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
You do not have to, seeing that I never mentioned any Bible at all ? except that is only once and this is the CJB....
Let me quote one of your posts; " Failing to answer a direct question concerning your position vis-à-vis KJV Onlyism ", sic!,, " vis-avis " meaning of course " in regards to "
 

En Hakkore

Well-known member
I never mentioned any Bible at all
That is incorrect... you mentioned the KJV in your post here, parroting misinformation about why it was commissioned, which I set straight in my response to it.

Let me quote one of your posts; " Failing to answer a direct question concerning your position vis-à-vis KJV Onlyism ", sic!,, " vis-avis " meaning of course " in regards to "
Correct, you failed to answer my direct question about whether you were a KJV Onlyist or a critic of this movement... since you did not identify your position "in regards to" KJV Onlyism I did not assume it, but pointed out that your tactics are similar to theirs. This forum is for discussion of KJV Onlyism so if you have nothing further to say about it, we have no further reason to be in dialogue...

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 

rossh

Well-known member
That is incorrect... you mentioned the KJV in your post here, parroting misinformation about why it was commissioned, which I set straight in my response to it.


Correct, you failed to answer my direct question about whether you were a KJV Onlyist or a critic of this movement... since you did not identify your position "in regards to" KJV Onlyism I did not assume it, but pointed out that your tactics are similar to theirs. This forum is for discussion of KJV Onlyism so if you have nothing further to say about it, we have no further reason to be in dialogue...

Kind regards,
Jonathan
You mentioned this;; ? I did say this,, ": The KJV came out of RCC decree that non Priests were not allowed to read Gods Word. King James the VI authorized it's translation and printing " the meaning is that it defeated the RCC version only. You are printing falsities about my comments.
I no longer use the KJV Bible, also I have several and different versions but no longer use any of those either, get it ? I use the CJB ( Complete Jewish Bible )...
 

rossh

Well-known member
So what happens when another person tells you God explains His word to that person, in a definition that is differem from your interpretation.
I have no idea at all, why don't you tell me, your are the one telling the " story " here ?
God explains His Word to me in His Word, the Bible... Do you not believe that God can do this ?
 
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