Molech

puddleglum

Well-known member
The Israelites were often tempted to worship the gods of the Canaanites and the surrounding nations. One of those gods was called Molech or Moloch. He required that his worshipers sacrifice their children to him. Here is what Wikipedia says about him.

Rabbinical tradition depicted Moloch as a bronze statue heated with fire into which the victims were thrown. This has been associated with reports by Greco-Roman authors on the child sacrifices in Carthage to Baal Hammon, especially since archaeological excavations since the 1920s have produced evidence for child sacrifice in Carthage as well as inscriptions including the term MLK, either a theonym or a technical term associated with sacrifice. In interpretatio graeca, the Phoenician god was identified with Cronus, due to the parallel mytheme of Cronus devouring his children.

It seems inconceivable that anyone would be willing to kill their own children. Perhaps it makes more sense when we understand the power behind idolatry.

What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God.
1 Corinthians 10:19-20

The idols that people once worshiped were not simply statues. They were empowered by demons and those who worshiped them placed themselves under the power of those demons. The power of Molech overrode the natural instincts of parents to care for their children and led them to sacrifice them to their god.

Today no one sacrifices his children to a statue of Molech but the spirit of Molech is very active in the world. Many people consider it acceptable to sacrifice their children as long as they do so while the child is still in its mother’s womb. Proponents of abortion defend the practice with a zeal that seems almost religious. Most Christians know that those who have abortions are violating the sixth commandment, “You shall not murder,” but how many of us realize that they are also violating the first commandment, “You shall have no other gods before me”?

Of course abortionists don’t call abortion a sacrifice. Instead, they say it is a mother exercising her right to control her own body. There are two things wrong with this belief. They are actually destroying a child whom they have a God given responsibility to protect, train, and nurture. And their bodies do not belong to them but to the God who created them.

Here is God’s command regarding those who sacrifice their children to Molech.

The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name.”
Leviticus 20:1-3

Surely he feels the same way about today’s worshipers of Molech. Of course the church is not a nation, as Israel was, so we have no authority to use force to end abortions, but we should do what we can to get our nations to outlaw abortion, and we should do all was can to show others how evil it is.

Have you ever heard anyone say something like this, “I am personally opposed to abortion but I don’t feel that I have any right to impose my beliefs on others”? God has something to say to these people.

And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death, then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech.
Leviticus 20:4-5

There can be no neutrality on the issue of abortion. Unless you are opposing it you are supporting it, either actively or passively. There are several ways to fight it. You can try to get abortion outlawed by voting for prolife candidates and by supporting organizations such as National Right to Life or Pro-Life Action League. You can support organizations that provide counseling for women considering abortion.

While these are all good, none of them addresses the Satanic influence which is the real source of the problem. People who do not worship the true God can easily be tricked into worshiping Satan. By nature, all of us are in this category. We have all sinned and our sins separate us from God. This separation must be removed before we can to serve him. Jesus died and rose from the dead to pay for our sins and we can be forgiven by repenting and putting our faith in Jesus. Preaching this message, rather than ending abortion, is our primary task. When we put this first it will be easier for us to oppose abortion.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
I quote an OB doc who privately shared some professional bitterness with me privately. He said it is done for "expediency".
How is that different from seeking favor from molech?
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
It seems inconceivable that anyone would be willing to kill their own children.
If the Christian God ordered this, Christians would do it, too.

The only people it seems inconceivable to are those who would happily defy any authority to protect their kids. Many Christians do not fall into this category.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
The Israelites were often tempted to worship the gods of the Canaanites and the surrounding nations. One of those gods was called Molech or Moloch. He required that his worshipers sacrifice their children to him. Here is what Wikipedia says about him.



It seems inconceivable that anyone would be willing to kill their own children. Perhaps it makes more sense when we understand the power behind idolatry.



The idols that people once worshiped were not simply statues. They were empowered by demons and those who worshiped them placed themselves under the power of those demons. The power of Molech overrode the natural instincts of parents to care for their children and led them to sacrifice them to their god.

Today no one sacrifices his children to a statue of Molech but the spirit of Molech is very active in the world. Many people consider it acceptable to sacrifice their children as long as they do so while the child is still in its mother’s womb. Proponents of abortion defend the practice with a zeal that seems almost religious. Most Christians know that those who have abortions are violating the sixth commandment, “You shall not murder,” but how many of us realize that they are also violating the first commandment, “You shall have no other gods before me”?

Of course abortionists don’t call abortion a sacrifice. Instead, they say it is a mother exercising her right to control her own body. There are two things wrong with this belief. They are actually destroying a child whom they have a God given responsibility to protect, train, and nurture. And their bodies do not belong to them but to the God who created them.

Here is God’s command regarding those who sacrifice their children to Molech.



Surely he feels the same way about today’s worshipers of Molech. Of course the church is not a nation, as Israel was, so we have no authority to use force to end abortions, but we should do what we can to get our nations to outlaw abortion, and we should do all was can to show others how evil it is.

Have you ever heard anyone say something like this, “I am personally opposed to abortion but I don’t feel that I have any right to impose my beliefs on others”? God has something to say to these people.



There can be no neutrality on the issue of abortion. Unless you are opposing it you are supporting it, either actively or passively. There are several ways to fight it. You can try to get abortion outlawed by voting for prolife candidates and by supporting organizations such as National Right to Life or Pro-Life Action League. You can support organizations that provide counseling for women considering abortion.

While these are all good, none of them addresses the Satanic influence which is the real source of the problem. People who do not worship the true God can easily be tricked into worshiping Satan. By nature, all of us are in this category. We have all sinned and our sins separate us from God. This separation must be removed before we can to serve him. Jesus died and rose from the dead to pay for our sins and we can be forgiven by repenting and putting our faith in Jesus. Preaching this message, rather than ending abortion, is our primary task. When we put this first it will be easier for us to oppose abortion.
Great OP.

 

BMS

Well-known member
If the Christian God ordered this, Christians would do it, too.

The only people it seems inconceivable to are those who would happily defy any authority to protect their kids. Many Christians do not fall into this category.
But God hasnt ordered it. Through Christ now it is finished and done, Christ will return to judge the living and the dead.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
The Israelites were often tempted to worship the gods of the Canaanites and the surrounding nations. One of those gods was called Molech or Moloch. He required that his worshipers sacrifice their children to him. Here is what Wikipedia says about him.



It seems inconceivable that anyone would be willing to kill their own children. Perhaps it makes more sense when we understand the power behind idolatry.



The idols that people once worshiped were not simply statues. They were empowered by demons and those who worshiped them placed themselves under the power of those demons. The power of Molech overrode the natural instincts of parents to care for their children and led them to sacrifice them to their god.

Today no one sacrifices his children to a statue of Molech but the spirit of Molech is very active in the world. Many people consider it acceptable to sacrifice their children as long as they do so while the child is still in its mother’s womb. Proponents of abortion defend the practice with a zeal that seems almost religious. Most Christians know that those who have abortions are violating the sixth commandment, “You shall not murder,” but how many of us realize that they are also violating the first commandment, “You shall have no other gods before me”?

Of course abortionists don’t call abortion a sacrifice. Instead, they say it is a mother exercising her right to control her own body. There are two things wrong with this belief. They are actually destroying a child whom they have a God given responsibility to protect, train, and nurture. And their bodies do not belong to them but to the God who created them.

Here is God’s command regarding those who sacrifice their children to Molech.



Surely he feels the same way about today’s worshipers of Molech. Of course the church is not a nation, as Israel was, so we have no authority to use force to end abortions, but we should do what we can to get our nations to outlaw abortion, and we should do all was can to show others how evil it is.

Have you ever heard anyone say something like this, “I am personally opposed to abortion but I don’t feel that I have any right to impose my beliefs on others”? God has something to say to these people.



There can be no neutrality on the issue of abortion. Unless you are opposing it you are supporting it, either actively or passively. There are several ways to fight it. You can try to get abortion outlawed by voting for prolife candidates and by supporting organizations such as National Right to Life or Pro-Life Action League. You can support organizations that provide counseling for women considering abortion.

While these are all good, none of them addresses the Satanic influence which is the real source of the problem. People who do not worship the true God can easily be tricked into worshiping Satan. By nature, all of us are in this category. We have all sinned and our sins separate us from God. This separation must be removed before we can to serve him. Jesus died and rose from the dead to pay for our sins and we can be forgiven by repenting and putting our faith in Jesus. Preaching this message, rather than ending abortion, is our primary task. When we put this first it will be easier for us to oppose abortion.
Religious nonsense which has no place in a discussion of whether or not abortion should be legal.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
The Israelites were often tempted to worship the gods of the Canaanites and the surrounding nations. One of those gods was called Molech or Moloch. He required that his worshipers sacrifice their children to him. Here is what Wikipedia says about him.



It seems inconceivable that anyone would be willing to kill their own children. Perhaps it makes more sense when we understand the power behind idolatry.



The idols that people once worshiped were not simply statues. They were empowered by demons and those who worshiped them placed themselves under the power of those demons. The power of Molech overrode the natural instincts of parents to care for their children and led them to sacrifice them to their god.

Today no one sacrifices his children to a statue of Molech but the spirit of Molech is very active in the world. Many people consider it acceptable to sacrifice their children as long as they do so while the child is still in its mother’s womb. Proponents of abortion defend the practice with a zeal that seems almost religious. Most Christians know that those who have abortions are violating the sixth commandment, “You shall not murder,” but how many of us realize that they are also violating the first commandment, “You shall have no other gods before me”?

Of course abortionists don’t call abortion a sacrifice. Instead, they say it is a mother exercising her right to control her own body. There are two things wrong with this belief. They are actually destroying a child whom they have a God given responsibility to protect, train, and nurture. And their bodies do not belong to them but to the God who created them.

Here is God’s command regarding those who sacrifice their children to Molech.



Surely he feels the same way about today’s worshipers of Molech. Of course the church is not a nation, as Israel was, so we have no authority to use force to end abortions, but we should do what we can to get our nations to outlaw abortion, and we should do all was can to show others how evil it is.

Have you ever heard anyone say something like this, “I am personally opposed to abortion but I don’t feel that I have any right to impose my beliefs on others”? God has something to say to these people.



There can be no neutrality on the issue of abortion. Unless you are opposing it you are supporting it, either actively or passively. There are several ways to fight it. You can try to get abortion outlawed by voting for prolife candidates and by supporting organizations such as National Right to Life or Pro-Life Action League. You can support organizations that provide counseling for women considering abortion.

While these are all good, none of them addresses the Satanic influence which is the real source of the problem. People who do not worship the true God can easily be tricked into worshiping Satan. By nature, all of us are in this category. We have all sinned and our sins separate us from God. This separation must be removed before we can to serve him. Jesus died and rose from the dead to pay for our sins and we can be forgiven by repenting and putting our faith in Jesus. Preaching this message, rather than ending abortion, is our primary task. When we put this first it will be easier for us to oppose abortion.
I agree with everything you said here.

And if you were arguing with people like Joe Biden or other people who claim to be religious while supporting abortion, that would be one thing. I like your comment about how abortion supporters almost make it a religious when they support abortion. Indeed, abortion supporters who aren't religious have made a religion out of support for abortion.

Many abortion supporters are not religious--so arguing the Bible and religion with them is not effective. This is why when I debate abortion with abortion supporters I do not appeal to God, the Bible, or religion in general.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
I agree with everything you said here.

And if you were arguing with people like Joe Biden or other people who claim to be religious while supporting abortion, that would be one thing. I like your comment about how abortion supporters almost make it a religious when they support abortion. Indeed, abortion supporters who aren't religious have made a religion out of support for abortion.

Many abortion supporters are not religious--so arguing the Bible and religion with them is not effective. This is why when I debate abortion with abortion supporters I do not appeal to God, the Bible, or religion in general.
Quite right. This is not a religious issue. People's attitudes may be shaped by their religion, but the issue itself is secular.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
Quite right. This is not a religious issue. People's attitudes may be shaped by their religion, but the issue itself is secular.
This is quite correct. One need not be religious to argue against abortion. One does not need a personal, direct revelation from God to know murder when one sees it.

It is quite paradoxical, however, that while some abortion supporters may not be religious or believe in God, that they have made a religion out of support for abortion--that is---they have turned abortion into a god--and they worship at the altar of abortion.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
I tend to avoid religion when arguing against abortion, but---CARM is run by Christians. Thus, you should not be surprised to find religion on these boards.
I'm not. But we are still capable of noting that people's religious beliefs should not form any part of a decision as to the legality of an act in a country that (at least nominally) does not support or endorse one religion over any other or their absence.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
I'm not. But we are still capable of noting that people's religious beliefs should not form any part of a decision as to the legality of an act in a country that (at least nominally) does not support or endorse one religion over any other or their absence.
What, then, of the people like you who have turned the right to abortion into a god? How is that NOT religious?
 

Temujin

Well-known member
This is quite correct. One need not be religious to argue against abortion. One does not need a personal, direct revelation from God to know murder when one sees it.
Just as you need not be irreligious to know that abortion provision is just and civilised. Many religious people support abortion. In fact given the small numbers of atheists in the US and the clear public support for some form of abortion provision, it seems likely that a majority of religious people support abortion rights. Certainly the majority of people who actually have abortions are religious.

Murder is, as we have seen elsewhere, as irrelevant as religion when discussing this subject. Some people foolishly think that abortion is linked to religion. It isn't. Some people foolishly think abortion is linked to murder. It isn't. Abortion should be addressed and dealt with for what it is, not by what some foolish people think it is.

I
t is quite paradoxical, however, that while some abortion supporters may not be religious or believe in God, that they have made a religion out of support for abortion--that is---they have turned abortion into a god--and they worship at the altar of abortion.
Total rubbish. Either you haven't the faintest idea what a god is or you don't understand worship. Some subjects are very important and arouse extremely strong feelings. This is not worship. Abortion has nothing to do with the supernatural, it has no altars, priests, holy books or buildings. It is just a medical procedure which involves the destruction of a living foetus. The crux of the matter is thus :

Is the destruction of a living foetus wrong?

If so, is it nevertheless justified if the pregnant woman desires it?
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
Nobody has turned the right to abortion into a god.
Really? You could have fooled me. You act as though abortion is a moral good--even though you claim not to believe in moral truth.

In any case--tell that to abortion supporters. They get all upset over the prospect that Roe could be overturned. They think if that happens--why--the world is ending!
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
Yes, really.

You could have fooled me.
Then you must be easily fooled in this regard, since nobody treats abortion like a god.

You act as though abortion is a moral good--even though you claim not to believe in moral truth.
The right to abort is, indeed, a moral good (in my opinion). I'm not sure what 'moral truth' means. I do not believe in objective morality.

Judging that something is a moral good in no way equates to treating it as a god.

In any case--tell that to abortion supporters.
I've no need to do so. Nobody but you thinks anybody is treating it as a god.

They get all upset over the prospect that Roe could be overturned. They think if that happens--why--the world is ending!
This is a pretty poor tactic. The right gets all upset over the prospect of the 2nd amendment being repealed. I guess according to your reasoning they treat guns as god?

Meanwhile, in the real world, a great many people greatly value particular rights and get upset/angry when those rights are threatened. That does not mean they are treating them as gods.
 
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