Moloch

John Milton

Well-known member
Matthew specifies Βεελ ζεβοὺλ (Beel Zeboul) = בעל זבוב = בעל זבול?
πάστας τέττιγος בעל זבוב "Master of Cicada (or cicala)" ??

זבול also זבוד (Genesis 30:20) so that זבלון (Zebulon) also זבדון (Zebudon).

ἑδώλιον (hedṓlion) זבלון (Zebulon) seat, mostly pl, abodes, in a ship, a raised quarter-deck at the stern, sg. step of the mast
ἑδωλιάζω
זבל ,זבד furnish with seat

Βεελ ζεβοὺλ maybe the Phoenician version of Palaemon, the god of sailing, also known as Melicertes (Melqart) and Portunus in Roman mythology.
It doesn't matter. The reference is to casting out demons not casting out a "god" and the verses I cited proved the points I was making.
 

Lee Magee

Member
The NT and Septuagint as δαιμονίον rather than δαίμων.

In a Phoenician context Tophet (תפתה) means ὄπτησις ; baking, of bread or pottery. But in the Old Testament, תפתה (ὄπτησις) is confused with Αποθέται ; a place in Lacedaemon (Taygetus) into which misshapen children were thrown.

More evidence of Spartan influence.
 

Lee Magee

Member
Matthew 17:18
And Jesus rebuked the devil (δαιμόνιον) and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour

Luke 4:33
spirit of an unclean devil (πνεῦμα δαιμονίου ἀκαθάρτου)

Revelation 16:14
spirits of devils, working miracles (πνεύματα δαιμόνων ποιοῦντα σημεῖα)

Plato, Republic 6.496c
the divine sign (τὸ δαιμόνιον σημεῖον)

Aretaeus - De causis et signis acutorum morborum 1.0
There are certain symptoms (σημήϊα) common to all, and certain ones peculiar to each. A heaviness rather than pain is a common symptom (for the lungs are insensible)


πνεῦμα means respiration, σημεῖα means symptoms, perhaps the Gospels are describing a lung symptom, like empyema
cf. δαίω burn up ~ δαιμόνιον inflammation?

Jesus the physician
Παιώνιος בן־יהוה
 

Lee Magee

Member
ἀποπτύω תעב - spit out, to vomit forth, to abominate, loathe, spurn
ἀποπτύεις תתעב Psa 107:18

This clears the spitting definition of תפתה and תעב is another Graecism.
 

John Milton

Well-known member
πνεῦμα means respiration, σημεῖα means symptoms, perhaps the Gospels are describing a lung symptom, like empyema
cf. δαίω burn up ~ δαιμόνιον inflammation?
No. These terms are describing spiritual entities. This is clear from the things written about them.
 

John Milton

Well-known member
English is not the original bible language. Spirit comes from Latin spīrō (“I breathe, blow, respire”) and Greek πνεῦμα comes from πνέω ("I breathe)
I transliterated the word into English letters when I explained it to you above because it would be troublesome to type in Greek on the device I'm currently on. The etymology of the words we've been discussing is of no relevance to this discussion.
 

Lee Magee

Member
2 Kings 21:13 וינפש "refreshed themselves"

The translation here is ἀνεψύχθησαν
ἀναψύχω
נפש ; to cool, to revive by fresh air, to refresh, Hom., Eur.:—Pass. to be revived, refreshed

Deuteronomy 20:16 נשמה (πνεῦμα) breatheth

See why people in the Bible are filled with spirit, like a balloon being filled with gas.
 

John Milton

Well-known member
2 Kings 21:13 וינפש "refreshed themselves"
The translation here is ἀνεψύχθησαν
ἀναψύχω
נפש ; to cool, to revive by fresh air, to refresh, Hom., Eur.:—Pass. to be revived, refreshed
Deuteronomy 20:16 נשמה (πνεῦμα) breatheth

See why people in the Bible are filled with spirit, like a balloon being filled with gas.
What's your point? I told you that the word can different meanings in different context, and the context of that passage is different than those we had been talking about.
 

Lee Magee

Member
Amos 5:26
But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves

MT ונשאתם את סכות מלככם ואת כיון צלמיכם כוכב אלהיכם אשר עשיתם לכם
Septuagint καὶ ἀνελάβετε τὴν σκηνὴν τοῦ Μολοχ καὶ τὸ ἄστρον τοῦ θεοῦ ὑμῶν Ραιφαν τοὺς τύπους αὐτῶν οὓς ἐποιήσατε ἑαυτοῗς

Act 7:43
Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan

καὶ ἀνελάβετε τὴν σκηνὴν τοῦ Μολὸχ καὶ τὸ ἄστρον τοῦ θεοῦ ὑμῶν Ῥεμφὰν, τοὺς τύπους οὓς ἐποιήσατε προσκυνεῖν αὐτοῖς καὶ μετοικιῶ ὑμᾶς ἐπέκεινα Βαβυλῶνος

Acts 7:43 copies the Septuagint version of Amos 5:26 and therefore copies its errors, for example סכות are not σκηνὴν "tabernacles" here but σχήματα "figures".

σχήματα סכות
ἀγάλματα צלמי
εἰκών כיון

ונשאתם
should be ἐνεγκόντες (not ἀνελάβετε )
 
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Lee Magee

Member
pagan ‘gods‘ are demons, fallen angels, animal souls.… entities of the satanic realm.

Not according to its definition and its use in classical Greek and there is no such thing as "satanic realm". Satan also from Classical Greek (ψίθυρος "whisperer").
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
well gee who knew. and to think … I taught ancient greek philosophy for years… and do not agree with you …

well.


🤣😛
 

Lee Magee

Member
Philosophy is not the study of Ancient Greek language.

ψιθυριστής Ἑρμῆς Whispering Hermes

The alternative name of Hermes is
ἐργάτης which is מלאך "workman", a homonyn of which means προάγγελος "harbinger, messenger", so this is the why in the New Testament, Satan (ψιθυριστής) is an angel (מלאך, ἐργάτης = Ἑρμῆς).

In Islam, Rasul (رسول) means messenger, from προάγγελος

Shayāṭīn (شَيَاطِين = devils or demons), singular: Shaiṭān (شَيْطَان) are evil spirits in Islam, inciting humans (and jinn) to sin by “whispering” (وَسْوَسَة, “waswasah”) to the heart (قَلْب qalb)

All vocabulary here from Greek (because they colonised ancient Arabia)

ψίθυρος Shayāṭīn
ψίθυροι Shaiṭān
ψιθυρίζω
waswasah
κόλπος qalb
 
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