Monty Hall's Production Crew: Arminian or Calvinist? Decision versus Outcome

Yes. I can choose to do anything I am physically capable of doing. We all can. Input all you want. I am wholly other from the sum total of my conditioning and whatever the environment throws at me.
Most of us believe we can. That doesn't make it so. How can you show that you are wholly other?

If I doubt my existence, it is my will that doubts. Robots don't doubt.
You still haven't answered the question. If you were pre-programmed, why would your very existence be in doubt?

Robots? No. Not unless you feebly define existence. Machines don't have existential reality. They are real to us, but not to themselves. They have no selves.
"Existence: the fact or state of living or having objective reality."
The dictionary doesn't specify feeble and non-feeble definitions.
 
Ah, c'mon! Are you STILL struggling to understand something so simple?
Actually, stigs, it's YOU that is struggling to understand something so simple

Yes, you can choose what to eat
You can choose when to eat
You can even choose to not eat at all - for a period of time {fasting}

What you cannot do, however, is choose to go through life without eating

The same thing applies to sin

You can choose whether or not to commit any specific sin at any given time, but you are NOT free to choose a life of sinlessness
You are NOT free to choose to be good enough, on your own merit, to warrant salvation/eternal life

And this is why you do NOT possess, within the Christian conceptualization, a free will
 
Most of us believe we can. That doesn't make it so. How can you show that you are wholly other?

Of course I can't. How in the hell can one guy prove to another guy that he exists and that the other guy is not just imagining him? Can't be done. Yet both guys exist,

You still haven't answered the question. If you were pre-programmed, why would your very existence be in doubt?

I would exist as a machine and thus be incapable of either doubt or certitude about anything.

"Existence: the fact or state of living or having objective reality."
The dictionary doesn't specify feeble and non-feeble definitions.

Noah Webster was a lexicographer, not a philosopher. Deriving your philosophy from a dictionary is very shallow. The essence of a robot is not existential.
 

I TOLD you to reply, as I do, point by point and to stop merely repeating your previous blathering of reruns, but you've done it again, necessitating my repeated dismantling, point by point. Sure, as long as you don't mind extending your humiliation. Let's go:

What you cannot do, however, is choose to go through life without eating

No one said you could. Show me where I said you can go through life without eating.

The same thing applies to sin

EXACTLY. No one goes through life without eating. No one goes through life without sinning.

Are you TRYING to debate yourself? You are tearing up your own dumb argument.

You can choose whether or not to commit any specific sin at any given time, but you are NOT free to choose a life of sinlessness

[Sigh] Likewise you can choose whether to eat at any specific time, but you cannot live without ever eating.

You are NOT free to choose to be good enough, on your own merit, to warrant salvation/eternal life/

So? You are also not free to choose to be aerial enough, on your own physicality, to warrant being able to fly to the moon. Does THAT somehow prove to you that we have no free will?

Sheesh! Simply sheesh.
 
The question is, if you thought that a crucifixion would buy you an eternity of ruling the universe, would you do it?

I would.
In a heartbeat.
Not in this eternity nor the next, if that were possible. No rational human would choose it.

Not so the atheist. An atheist god would be a lot like Satan I think.
 
Not in this eternity nor the next, if that were possible. No rational human would choose it.

Not so the atheist. An atheist god would be a lot like Satan I think.

He wants to rule the universe. He'd need to change his name from eightcrackers to infinitycrackers.
 
He wants to rule the universe. He'd need to change his name from eightcrackers to infinitycrackers.
Wanting to rule the universe....it has a certain psychotic flavor to it.

I'm told no one does Socialism right, if it's done right it's the best, I am told.

It may be the same here, no one does Dictator right, and he has eight crackers to prove it he can do Dictator to perfection.
 
You just called your god, psychotic.

Well done.
I'm always unimpressed by the atheist apologetic...when it's this bad.

After finding out no, not everyone has your universe domination plans, you lash out in predictable fashion.

What's the first thing you'd change?

Entropy? It's gotta be the first thing, no? Everyone will keep dying if you don't..
 
You just called your god, psychotic.

Lousy logic, especially for a potential ruler of the universe.

If I want to be the patriarch of my own family, there's nothing psychotic about that. But if YOU want to be the patriarch of MY family, that's another story. Rule your own damn universe.
 
Lousy logic, especially for a potential ruler of the universe.
You think that's bad wait till they explain how they would torture science to achieve their creepy nirvana.

Poor science, it doesn't stand a chance against an atheist god with an idea.

You ever hear of those studies about giving poor people lots of money?

The money ends up back in the hands of the rich in no time.

That's what we have here, after atheist god messes everything up he puts the universe back into place realizing he has no idea what he is doing.
 
No one goes through life without eating. No one goes through life without sinning.
It's not just that no one goes through life without eating and sinning

It's that no one CAN go through life without eating
It's that no one CAN go through life without sinning

What I am talking about is sinlessness
You keep trying to move the goalposts and make it about sin and sinning

We cannot live lives of perfect sinlessness because God robbed us of that freedom
He consciously and purposefully created us incapable of sinlessness

You are also not free to choose to be aerial enough, on your own physicality, to warrant being able to fly to the moon. Does THAT somehow prove to you that we have no free will?
No, of course not

Human beings cannot fly
That is a biological, physiological fact of nature

Human beings must breathe in order to sustain life
That is a biological, physiological fact of nature

Human beings must eat in order to sustain life
That is a biological, physiological fact of nature

No human being is biologically, physiologically compelled - at any point - to take the name of the Lord in vain
 
It's that no one CAN go through life without sinning

You are trying to prove that we have no free will, and then tell us that no one can go without committing sin, which is a .................. FREE WILL ACT!

And you are oblivious to the inherent stupidity in how you refute yourself.

No human being is biologically, physiologically compelled - at any point - to take the name of the Lord in vain

No one said they were. First you argue with yourself and thoroughly, but unwittingly DEFEAT yourself, and next you argue with a phantom. No one claimed or even implied that anyone is compelled to break any particular commandment. Thus your miserable failure to copy/paste anyone doing that.
 
You are trying to prove that we have no free will, and then tell us that no one can go without committing sin, which is a .................. FREE WILL ACT!
Yes, individual sins are free will acts

We are free countless times throughout life to sin or not to sin

Sinlessness, however, is NOT a free will act
God made it so that not one of us ever has or ever will be able to choose sinlessness

Why is this soo difficult for you to understand?
 
I'm always unimpressed by the atheist apologetic...when it's this bad.

After finding out no, not everyone has your universe domination plans, you lash out in predictable fashion.

What's the first thing you'd change?

Entropy? It's gotta be the first thing, no? Everyone will keep dying if you don't..
Wanting to rule the universe, is psychotic.
Your god wants to rule the universe.
...
 
Yes, individual sins are free will acts

Let's do a quick syllogism and see how you destroyed your own boneheaded argument that we have no free will:

1. Individual sins are free will acts. (YOUR words, verbatim)
2. We all commit individual sins.............. (this next sentence needs Sam Kinison (RIP) to read:
3. THEREFORE WE HAVE FREE WILL!
 
1. Individual sins are free will acts.
Yep

2. We all commit individual sins
Yep

3. THEREFORE WE HAVE FREE WILL!
Nope

Free will is more than just the ability to choose whether or not to sin in any given moment
Free will is the ability to choose a life of sinlessness

That ability has been denied us, by the will of God


I tried this once before and you ignored it
Nonetheless, I'll try again:

Instead of looking at it in terms of sin/sinning/sinlessness - think of it in terms of choosing to be in a state of Divine favor
Think of it as choosing to be in a state of full communion with God
Think of it as earning God's favor on your own merit - by your own actions

Scripture/Christianity teaches that this is an impossibilty

Scripture/Christianity teaches that no human being ever has been or ever can be 'good enough' on his/her own
{without the intervening grace of Jesus Christ}
to warrant salvation/eternal life

It is on this basis, stiggy, that Christianity proposes an absence of free will

No matter how much you might want to remain always in accordance with the Almighty - you cannot
You have no choice
You are not free to choose sinlessness
 
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Free will is the ability to choose a life of sinlessness

Which we both agree can't be done. Therefore we will all commit the free will act of sinning. Therefore we all have free will.

That ability has been denied us, by the will of God

So has the ability to fly to the moon. Are you stupid enough to also think that indicates no free will?

Instead of looking at it in terms of sin/sinning/sinlessness - think of it in terms of choosing to be in a state of Divine favor
Think of it as choosing to be in a state of full communion with God

He's already put me in those states. Not by my free will, but by His will. But that's irrelevant to the dumb point you're trying to make.

Think of it as earning God's favor on your own merit - by your own actions

Can't do it. Can't fly to the moon either. And .......?

Scripture/Christianity teaches that this is an impossibilty

Yep. We will ALWAYS use our ......................FREE WILL ....... to sin at some time or other.

You just defeated your own stupid "we have no free will" argument for the fifteenth time in this thread.

It is on this basis, stiggy, that Christianity proposes an absence of free will

Well, make up your mind. A paragraph ago you said just the opposite, that Christianity teaches that we can't go without committing free will acts of sin. Which is it? Make up your dang mind.

You are not free to choose sinlessness

I.e. we are bound to commit the free will act of sin. You lose again.
 
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