Moody's on Regeneration

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TomFL

Guest
DEFINITION OF REGENERATION

The word regeneration (Gk. paliggenesia) appears only twice in the New Testament. Once it is used eschatologically, “of the renewing of the world in the time of the Messiah” (Matt. 19:28), the second usage is “of the rebirth of a redeemed person” (Titus 3:5). Regeneration should be distinguished from conversion.

Conversion refers to the response of the human being to God’s offer of salvation and approach to man. Regeneration is the other side of conversion. It is God’s doing. In regeneration the soul is passive; in conversion, it is active. Regeneration may be defined as the communication of divine life to the soul … as the impartation of a new nature … or heart … and the production of a new creation.

Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.


Paul P. Enns, The Moody Handbook of Theology (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1989), 338.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
TomFL said:
DEFINITION OF REGENERATION

The word regeneration (Gk. paliggenesia) appears only twice in the New Testament. Once it is used eschatologically, “of the renewing of the world in the time of the Messiah” (Matt. 19:28), the second usage is “of the rebirth of a redeemed person” (Titus 3:5). Regeneration should be distinguished from conversion.

Conversion refers to the response of the human being to God’s offer of salvation and approach to man. Regeneration is the other side of conversion. It is God’s doing. In regeneration the soul is passive; in conversion, it is active. Regeneration may be defined as the communication of divine life to the soul … as the impartation of a new nature … or heart … and the production of a new creation.

Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.


Paul P. Enns, The Moody Handbook of Theology (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1989), 338.
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Thats error. You dont offer Salvation, Regeneration. And conversion is the fruit of having been born again. God doesnt convert dead people, but people who have been made alive spiritually, then they are able with spiritual minds, hearts, eyes, ears, be instructed spiritually and learn spiritually. Sorry cant do that with a dead man.
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
TomFL said:
DEFINITION OF REGENERATION

The word regeneration (Gk. paliggenesia) appears only twice in the New Testament. Once it is used eschatologically, “of the renewing of the world in the time of the Messiah” (Matt. 19:28), the second usage is “of the rebirth of a redeemed person” (Titus 3:5). Regeneration should be distinguished from conversion.

Conversion refers to the response of the human being to God’s offer of salvation and approach to man. Regeneration is the other side of conversion. It is God’s doing. In regeneration the soul is passive; in conversion, it is active. Regeneration may be defined as the communication of divine life to the soul … as the impartation of a new nature … or heart … and the production of a new creation.

Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.


Paul P. Enns, The Moody Handbook of Theology (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1989), 338.
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There are a couple of problems here.

All you're doing is looking for, and quoting theologians who agree with your view.
This is a combination of "cherry-picking", and "fallacy of appeal to authority".
Anyone can do that. We can find theologians who agree with our view, so you aren't really accomplishing anything, other than showing your bias.

Secondly, there's nothing really in that article that Calvinists disagree with, other than the false notion that salvation is merely an "offer" (which the Bible NEVER teaches).

I would assert, regarding regeneration and conversion, that conversion is the outward effect and result of regeneration, which as Enns points out (and you apparently disagree), regeneration is the act of God, not man.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
theo

Secondly, there's nothing really in that article that Calvinists disagree with, other than the false notion that salvation is merely an "offer" (which the Bible NEVER teaches).
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Exactly. Salvation is an purchased, and applied Gift through Jesus Christ !
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
theo



Exactly. Salvation is an purchased, and applied Gift through Jesus Christ !
Click to expand...

I should make up a "Theology Quiz" for this forum:

Here's an example question:

1) Matt. 1:21 reads, "You shall call his name Jesus, because...":

a) "He shall OFFER salvation to His people";
b) "He shall OFFER salvation to everyone";
c) "He shall TRY to save His people from their sins";
d) "He shall TRY to save everyone from their sins";
e) "He SHALL save HIS PEOPLE from their sins."
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
I should make up a "Theology Quiz" for this forum:

Here's an example question:

1) Matt. 1:21 reads, "You shall call his name Jesus, because...":

a) "He shall OFFER salvation to His people";
b) "He shall OFFER salvation to everyone";
c) "He shall TRY to save His people from their sins";
d) "He shall TRY to save everyone from their sins";
e) "He SHALL save HIS PEOPLE from their sins."
Click to expand...
How about E
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Theo1689 said:
There are a couple of problems here.

All you're doing is looking for, and quoting theologians who agree with your view.
This is a combination of "cherry-picking", and "fallacy of appeal to authority".
Anyone can do that. We can find theologians who agree with our view, so you aren't really accomplishing anything, other than showing your bias.

Secondly, there's nothing really in that article that Calvinists disagree with, other than the false notion that salvation is merely an "offer" (which the Bible NEVER teaches).

I would assert, regarding regeneration and conversion, that conversion is the outward effect and result of regeneration, which as Enns points out (and you apparently disagree), regeneration is the act of God, not man.
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Actually I quoted many Calvinists. In fact all or almost all the systematic theologies originally quoted were Calvinists

and despite your claim there is nothing Calvinist would disagree with

I point to your own denial that regeneration produces life to one who did not have life

Regeneration may be defined as the communication of divine life to the soul … as the impartation of a new nature … or heart … and the production of a new creation.

and note your claim is false

finally I do not disagree. no one in fact disagree regeneration is a work of God

so you are in error here
 
T

TomFL

Guest
brightfame52 said:
Thats error. You dont offer Salvation, Regeneration. And conversion is the fruit of having been born again. God doesnt convert dead people, but people who have been made alive spiritually, then they are able with spiritual minds, hearts, eyes, ears, be instructed spiritually and learn spiritually. Sorry cant do that with a dead man.
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Really

Is. 45:22 —KJV
“Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”

John 7:37 —ESV
“¶ On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.”

Rev. 22:17 —ESV
“¶ The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.”

2 Cor. 5:18–20 —KJV
“And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.”

Better get out of that theology paradigm and into te bible
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Really
Click to expand...

Yes, “really”.

Is. 45:22 —KJV
“Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”

John 7:37 —ESV
“¶ On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.”

Rev. 22:17 —ESV
“¶ The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.”

2 Cor. 5:18–20 —KJV
“And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.”

Better get out of that theology paradigm and into te bible
Click to expand...

Without simply ASSUMING that the above are “offers”, kindly PROVE that they are just that.
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
TomFL said:
DEFINITION OF REGENERATION

The word regeneration (Gk. paliggenesia) appears only twice in the New Testament. Once it is used eschatologically, “of the renewing of the world in the time of the Messiah” (Matt. 19:28), the second usage is “of the rebirth of a redeemed person” (Titus 3:5). Regeneration should be distinguished from conversion.

Conversion refers to the response of the human being to God’s offer of salvation and approach to man. Regeneration is the other side of conversion. It is God’s doing. In regeneration the soul is passive; in conversion, it is active. Regeneration may be defined as the communication of divine life to the soul … as the impartation of a new nature … or heart … and the production of a new creation.

Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.


Paul P. Enns, The Moody Handbook of Theology (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1989), 338.
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'We believe the same as you; just more'...
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
TomFL said:
As long as you affirm

Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.

I'm happy
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Sure; that sounds fine according to the Temporal Order...

Do you agree with the rest of Moody on Regeneration? You probably do; at least Temporally speaking...
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Theo1689 said:
Yes, “really”.



Without simply ASSUMING that the above are “offers”, kindly PROVE that they are just that.
Click to expand...
Its basic reading

Is. 45:22 —KJV
“Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”

John 7:37 —ESV
“¶ On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.”

Rev. 22:17 —ESV
“¶ The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.”

2 Cor. 5:18–20 —KJV
“And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.”

or as

2 Cor. 5:20 —ESV
“Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

2 Cor. 5:20 —NET
“Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making his plea through us. We plead with you on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God!””

2 Cor. 5:20 —CSB17
“¶ Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, since God is making his appeal through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.””

2 Cor. 5:20 —NAS95
“¶ Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”
 
T

TomFL

Guest
ReverendRV said:
Sure; that sounds fine according to the Temporal Order...

Do you agree with the rest of Moody on Regeneration? You probably do; at least Temporally speaking...
Click to expand...
Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.

Yes
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Its basic reading
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that is simply a copout.
I've been doing "basic reading" for 55 years, and have studied English grammar, French grammar, and Greek grammar. I've also taught English. I can parse nouns and verbs, and sentence diagram. I think I have a PRETTY good grasp of the language.

If it were "basic reading", as you suggest, it would be trivial for you to explicitly demonstrate the meaning you are projecting onto the text. That fact that you refuse to do so, and feel you have no need to do so, indicates that you are unable to do so.

James was not wrong when he wrote:

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

Just because you have Internet access and an opinion (which just about everyone has both), doesn't mean that you should become a teacher, or are adequate at teaching.

Simply repeating your opinion a million times is not "teaching".
Simply insulting people simply because they disagree with you is not "teaching".

TomFL said:
Is. 45:22 —KJV
“Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”
Click to expand...

That is an imperative, not an "offer".

TomFL said:
John 7:37 —ESV
“¶ On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.”
Click to expand...

That is an "if-then" statement, with the consequent being an imperative. You seem to be ASSUMING that it is an "offer".

TomFL said:
Rev. 22:17 —ESV
“¶ The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.”
Click to expand...

These are imperative statements, not "offers".

TomFL said:
2 Cor. 5:18–20 —KJV
“And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.”
Click to expand...

That is an imperative, "Be ye reconciled!", not an "offer".

TomFL said:
or as

2 Cor. 5:20 —ESV
2 Cor. 5:20 —NET
2 Cor. 5:20 —CSB17
2 Cor. 5:20 —NAS95
Click to expand...

Here you're simply repeating the same verse, in different translations, to make it look like you have more proof-texts than you actually have.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Theo1689 said:
Sorry, but that is simply a copout.
I've been doing "basic reading" for 55 years, and have studied English grammar, French grammar, and Greek grammar. I've also taught English. I can parse nouns and verbs, and sentence diagram. I think I have a PRETTY good grasp of the language.
Click to expand...
Then youi should be able to see

Offer

to declare one's readiness or willingness

God offers to save those that look to him

Christ offers to give drink to those that thirst if they come to him

The spirits and the bride offers to give the water of life freely to those who come

Is. 45:22 —KJV
“Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”

John 7:37 —ESV
“¶ On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.”

Rev. 22:17 —ESV
“¶ The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.”

2 Cor. 5:18–20 —KJV
“And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.”

or as

2 Cor. 5:20 —ESV
“Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

2 Cor. 5:20 —NET
“Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making his plea through us. We plead with you on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God!””

2 Cor. 5:20 —CSB17
“¶ Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, since God is making his appeal through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.””

2 Cor. 5:20 —NAS95
“¶ Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”
 
CrowCross

CrowCross

Super Member
TomFL said:
Then youi should be able to see

Offer

to declare one's readiness or willingness

God offers to save those that look to him

Christ offers to give drink to those that thirst if they come to him

The spirits and the bride offers to give the water of life freely to those who come

Is. 45:22 —KJV
“Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”

John 7:37 —ESV
“¶ On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.”

Rev. 22:17 —ESV
“¶ The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.”

2 Cor. 5:18–20 —KJV
“And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.”

or as

2 Cor. 5:20 —ESV
“Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

2 Cor. 5:20 —NET
“Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making his plea through us. We plead with you on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God!””

2 Cor. 5:20 —CSB17
“¶ Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, since God is making his appeal through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.””

2 Cor. 5:20 —NAS95
“¶ Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”
Click to expand...
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
 
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