Moody's on Regeneration

CrowCross

Well-known member
Then youi should be able to see

Offer

to declare one's readiness or willingness

God offers to save those that look to him

Christ offers to give drink to those that thirst if they come to him

The spirits and the bride offers to give the water of life freely to those who come

Is. 45:22 —KJV
“Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”

John 7:37 —ESV
“¶ On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.”

Rev. 22:17 —ESV
“¶ The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.”

2 Cor. 5:18–20 —KJV
“And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.”

or as


2 Cor. 5:20 —ESV
“Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

2 Cor. 5:20 —NET
“Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making his plea through us. We plead with you on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God!””

2 Cor. 5:20 —CSB17
“¶ Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, since God is making his appeal through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.””

2 Cor. 5:20 —NAS95
“¶ Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
 

TomFL

Well-known member
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
And how is it granted ?

John 6:45 —NAS95
““It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.”
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Then youi should be able to see

I can see that you are twisting Scripture to claim things it doesn't say.

Offer

to declare one's readiness or willingness

God offers to save those that look to him

Sorry, Scripture NEVER says, "God offers to save those that look to him".
Sorry, Scripture NEVER says, "offer".
You are ASSUMING it is an "offer".

Christ offers to give drink to those that thirst if they come to him

Sorry, Scripture NEVER says, "offer".
You are ASSUMING it is an "offer".

The spirits and the bride offers to give the water of life freely to those who come

Sorry, Scripture NEVER says, "offer".
You are ASSUMING it is an "offer".



If all you have is repetition, and insult, and can't actually DEMONSTRATE your claims, then you should give up trying to "teach".
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
And how is it granted ?

John 6:45 —NAS95
““It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.”

Yes, that's how GOD DRAWS.

It's not that we "learn" first, and then God "chooses" to draw those who have "chosen to learn".
You are inverting the cause and effect.

If your misinterpretation were correct, it would NOT start out with, "No man can come to me..."

It would instead read, "EVERYONE can come to me! ALL they have to do is take it upon themselves to hear and learn! And then they can be saved by their own efforts!"
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
And how is it granted ?

John 6:45 —NAS95
““It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.”
Several way I suppose. Lydia is an example of one of those ways...

One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

Paul spoke and God opened her heart.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Several way I suppose. Lydia is an example of one of those ways...

One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

Paul spoke and God opened her heart.
According to the context

When Jesus had come down to the Father's will before the cross

John 6:45 —NAS95
““It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.”
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes, that's how GOD DRAWS.

It's not that we "learn" first, and then God "chooses" to draw those who have "chosen to learn".
You are inverting the cause and effect.

If your misinterpretation were correct, it would NOT start out with, "No man can come to me..."

It would instead read, "EVERYONE can come to me! ALL they have to do is take it upon themselves to hear and learn! And then they can be saved by their own efforts!"
You are mistaken

II never stated anything about an order

and the text says nothing about chosing

The simple fact is those who were the Fathers would hear from the Father and come to Jesus
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I can see that you are twisting Scripture to claim things it doesn't say.



Sorry, Scripture NEVER says, "God offers to save those that look to him".
Sorry, Scripture NEVER says, "offer".
You are ASSUMING it is an "offer".



Sorry, Scripture NEVER says, "offer".
You are ASSUMING it is an "offer".



Sorry, Scripture NEVER says, "offer".
You are ASSUMING it is an "offer".



If all you have is repetition, and insult, and can't actually DEMONSTRATE your claims, then you should give up trying to "teach".

It does not need to say the word but that is what it is

God offers to save those that look to him

Christ offers to give drink to those that thirst if they come to him

The spirits and the bride offers to give the water of life freely to those who come

Is. 45:22 —KJV
“Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”

John 7:37 —ESV
“¶ On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.”

Rev. 22:17 —ESV
“¶ The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.”

And God makes an appeal to be reconciled

2 Cor. 5:20 —CSB17
“¶ Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, since God is making his appeal through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.””
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
You are mistaken

II never stated anything about an order

Great!
You just refuted yourself!

If "it never stated anything about an order", then you CANNOT "assume" that "hearing and learning" came before "drawing"!

Congratulations!
You just learned something today! :)
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
It does not need to say the word but that is what it is

Riiiiiiiight.

So you're saying it doesn't matter what Scripture ACTUALLY says, you can simply claim it means whatever you WANT it to mean.

And that's why Mormons have more truth than you do.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Great!
You just refuted yourself!

If "it never stated anything about an order", then you CANNOT "assume" that "hearing and learning" came before "drawing"!

Congratulations!
You just learned something today! :)
Sorry but you are confused

You mentioned choosing and choosing to learn

The text does not speak of God choosing and i stated nothing regarding that

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will braise him up on the last day.

John 6:45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

If you want an order here it is un the clause below

Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

The Father testifies men hear and learn and come to Christ
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Sorry but you are confused

You mentioned choosing and choosing to learn

The text does not speak of God choosing and i stated nothing regarding that

Well, that simply shows what a poor teacher you are.
You keep quoting John 6:45, but refuse to exegete it for us, and so we are forced to guess at how you are interpreting it. So since you deny that particular interpretation, we (or at least) I have no clue as to why you're quoting it, or what you think it means, and you seem to be quoting it randomly.

So why do you repeatedly quote it when you refuse to exegete it?
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
According to the context

When Jesus had come down to the Father's will before the cross

John 6:45 —NAS95
““It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.”
Those who have heard and learned from the Father, comes to Jesus.....The Father acts first.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Those who have heard and learned from the Father, comes to Jesus.....The Father acts first.
I don't have a problem with that. Do you ?

BTW youdo know this was before the cross

After the cross

John 12:32 —NAS95
““And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.””
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
BTW youdo know this was before the cross

What exactly is your point?
Why don't you explain what your point is, instead of constantly being cryptic?

You make random comments that have nothing to do with anything, refuse to explain them, and then you expect people to blindly agree with you?

After the cross

John 12:32 —NAS95
““And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.””

Again, what's your point?
What point are you trying to make by quoting a random verse?

You do realize, I hope, that John 12:32 has nothing to do with John 6:44, right?
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
I don't have a problem with that. Do you ?

BTW youdo know this was before the cross

After the cross

John 12:32 —NAS95
““And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.””
So, no one goes to hell?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
What exactly is your point?
Why don't you explain what your point is, instead of constantly being cryptic?

Was it really that hard for you to figure out ?

You cannot just rip John 6:44 out of its historical context
while ignoring the cross and Jesus statement

Its not random at all and if you understood John 6:44 in its context you would not be so puzzled
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Was it really that hard for you to figure out ?

Yes... Your irrational blatherings ARE "too hard to figure out".
The fact that you can't explain what you mean is proof of that.

You cannot just rip John 6:44 out of its historical context

Then stop doing it!

while ignoring the cross and Jesus statement

Its not random at all and if you understood John 6:44 in its context you would not be so puzzled

I don't understand your irrational and unbiblical beliefs.
Therefore you're going to have to explain them to me.
Why are you so afraid to do so?
I think it's because you know you can't support them Biblically.
 
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