brightfame52
Well-known member
Dont put that heresy on Jesus.
zerinus
Well-known member
LOL! Denying the word of God is the biggest heresy of all.
brightfame52
Well-known member
No denying your heresy, dont put that on Jesus, thats another jesus
zerinus
Well-known member
No need to continue this back and forth. Previous exchanges available for all to see, and they can judge for themselves.
brightfame52
Well-known member
God sees your made up doctrine, that water baptism is part of the Gospel !
T
TomFL
Guest
When did this thread degenerate to a discussion of baptismal regeneration ?
zerinus
Well-known member
Baptismal regeneration is an integral part of regeneration as a whole. It actually comes first. It takes precedence over the other kind. You can't have the second without the first:
John 3:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
It doesn't say that the water is optional, or that you can mix them up in any order you like.
Returning to the OP, it is not an accurate definition or description of regeneration, because it attempts to define it linguistically rather than biblically. Regeneration, or more accurately stated, being "born again," is a biblical concept, and is best understood and analyzed within that context, not linguistically outside of that context.
T
TomFL
Guest
No I don't think so
Cornelius was regenerated without water
Simon and the Samaritans were water baptized without receiving the spirit
zerinus
Well-known member
Both have previously been discussed. No need to elaborate on those again. You are confirming what I have said.
T
TomFL
Guest
So you say
over 80 places in the Bible refer to salvation by grace through faith alone. Here are just a very few examples: John 1:12; John 3:16; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:40; John 11:25; Acts 10:43; Acts 13:39; Acts 16:30,31; Romans 3:22; Romans 3:28; Romans 4:3; Romans 4:5; Romans 10:9-13; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:26, and Ephesians 2:8-9
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zerinus
Well-known member
Nobody is denying any of those. Talking nonsense, wasting time.
T
TomFL
Guest
So don''t talk nonsense
If over 80 places in the Bible refer to salvation by grace through faith alone. '
how can you make water baptism a requirement ?
zerinus
Well-known member
Mark 16:
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
T
TomFL
Guest
And where does it state if you are not water baptized you cannot be saved ?
zerinus
Well-known member
It is a given. If you did not believe, you would have no reason to want to be baptized neither. Why would you want to be baptized, if you did not believe? It wouldn't do you any good even if you did. Thy are part of the same package. They go together. You can't have either one without the other.
T
TomFL
Guest
No it is not a given
We just established 80 verses teach Justification/salvation through faith alone
that would be without water baptism
zerinus
Well-known member
Mark 16:
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not [and consequently not baptized] shall be damned.
Are you suggesting that the Bible contradicts itself? Perhaps you do. I don't.
T
TomFL
Guest
That brings us back to the fact that verse does not state you cannot be saved unless baptized
Writing in large print does not change that fact
And as noted you agreed 80 verses teach salvation/justification through faith alone
So if you are trying to add water baptism as a requirement you are contradicting the bible or trying to get it to contradict itself
zerinus
Here is the awful penalty of frustrating the doctrine of the grace of God by adding works. One should answer every rhetorical questions that Paul asks in this epistle and if he does not answer correctly he should fear for his soul and repent. I did not write this but my reading ability is higher than the moon.
Ga 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Salvation is Christ living in the body in the person of the Spirit and he does not indwell the body at baptism, he indwells the body at believing in the heart. It is a new birth and all things become new when it happens.
This is truth. Baptism in water adds nothing to the transaction but it does illustrate it.
zerinus
Well-known member
That is exactly what it does say. If it is not saying it about baptism, then it is not saying it about faith neither. You either accept both together, or reject both together. It is not half and half. You don't get to pick the bits you like, and leave out the bits you don't.
LOL! Must be getting desperate!
I just did a search, and found 82 references in the NT to water baptism. No one in the NT who accepted the gospel was not baptized. Do away with those, and I will believe you.
I think that applies to you rather than to me.