Moody's on Regeneration

zerinus

Well-known member
To add water baptism to the person and work of Christ for salvation, is not the Gospel, but a perversion. Its just like how the judaziers added circumcision !
I am not adding anything. Jesus does. See the quotes. Are you making Jesus a liar?
 

zerinus

Well-known member
When did this thread degenerate to a discussion of baptismal regeneration ?
Baptismal regeneration is an integral part of regeneration as a whole. It actually comes first. It takes precedence over the other kind. You can't have the second without the first:

John 3:

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


It doesn't say that the water is optional, or that you can mix them up in any order you like.

Returning to the OP, it is not an accurate definition or description of regeneration, because it attempts to define it linguistically rather than biblically. Regeneration, or more accurately stated, being "born again," is a biblical concept, and is best understood and analyzed within that context, not linguistically outside of that context.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Baptismal regeneration is an integral part of regeneration as a whole. It actually comes first. It takes precedence over the other kind. You can't have the second without the first:

John 3:

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


It doesn't say that the water is optional, or that you can mix them up in any order you like.

Returning to the OP, it is not an accurate definition or description of regeneration, because it attempts to define it linguistically rather than biblically. Regeneration, or more accurately stated, being "born again," is a biblical concept, and is best understood and analyzed within that context, not linguistically outside of that context.

No I don't think so

Cornelius was regenerated without water

Simon and the Samaritans were water baptized without receiving the spirit
 

zerinus

Well-known member
No I don't think so

Cornelius was regenerated without water

Simon and the Samaritans were water baptized without receiving the spirit
Both have previously been discussed. No need to elaborate on those again. You are confirming what I have said.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Both have previously been discussed. No need to elaborate on those again. You are confirming what I have said.
So you say

over 80 places in the Bible refer to salvation by grace through faith alone. Here are just a very few examples: John 1:12; John 3:16; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:40; John 11:25; Acts 10:43; Acts 13:39; Acts 16:30,31; Romans 3:22; Romans 3:28; Romans 4:3; Romans 4:5; Romans 10:9-13; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:26, and Ephesians 2:8-9
 
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zerinus

Well-known member
So you say

over 80 places in the Bible refer to salvation by grace through faith alone. Here are just a very few examples: John 1:12; John 3:16; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:40; John 11:25; Acts 10:43; Acts 13:39; Acts 16:30,31; Romans 3:22; Romans 3:28; Romans 4:3; Romans 4:5; Romans 10:9-13; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:26, and Ephesians 2:8-9
Nobody is denying any of those. Talking nonsense, wasting time.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Nobody is denying any of those. Talking nonsense, wasting time.
So don''t talk nonsense

If over 80 places in the Bible refer to salvation by grace through faith alone. '

how can you make water baptism a requirement ?
 

zerinus

Well-known member
So don''t talk nonsense

If over 80 places in the Bible refer to salvation by grace through faith alone. '

how can you make water baptism a requirement ?

Mark 16:

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Mark 16:

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And where does it state if you are not water baptized you cannot be saved ?
 

zerinus

Well-known member
And where does it state if you are not water baptized you cannot be saved ?
It is a given. If you did not believe, you would have no reason to want to be baptized neither. Why would you want to be baptized, if you did not believe? It wouldn't do you any good even if you did. Thy are part of the same package. They go together. You can't have either one without the other.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
It is a given. If you did not believe, you would have no reason to want to be baptized neither. Why would you want to be baptized, if you did not believe? It wouldn't do you any good even if you did. Thy are part of the same package. They go together. You can't have either one without the other.
No it is not a given

We just established 80 verses teach Justification/salvation through faith alone

that would be without water baptism
 

zerinus

Well-known member
No it is not a given

We just established 80 verses teach Justification/salvation through faith alone

that would be without water baptism

Mark 16:

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not [and consequently not baptized] shall be damned.


Are you suggesting that the Bible contradicts itself? Perhaps you do. I don't.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Mark 16:

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not [and consequently not baptized] shall be damned.


Are you suggesting that the Bible contradicts itself? Perhaps you do. I don't.
That brings us back to the fact that verse does not state you cannot be saved unless baptized

Writing in large print does not change that fact

And as noted you agreed 80 verses teach salvation/justification through faith alone

So if you are trying to add water baptism as a requirement you are contradicting the bible or trying to get it to contradict itself
 

JDS

Active member
That brings us back to the fact that verse does not state you cannot be saved unless baptized

Writing in large print does not change that fact

And as noted you agreed 80 verses teach salvation/justification through faith alone

So if you are trying to add water baptism as a requirement you are contradicting the bible or trying to get it to contradict itself

zerinus


Here is the awful penalty of frustrating the doctrine of the grace of God by adding works. One should answer every rhetorical questions that Paul asks in this epistle and if he does not answer correctly he should fear for his soul and repent. I did not write this but my reading ability is higher than the moon.

Ga 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Salvation is Christ living in the body in the person of the Spirit and he does not indwell the body at baptism, he indwells the body at believing in the heart. It is a new birth and all things become new when it happens.

This is truth. Baptism in water adds nothing to the transaction but it does illustrate it.
 
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