Mormon hypocrisy

[Elijah the Tishbite]

Mormons teach that all versus below mean one in purpose even the all the standard works teach One God

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris


1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.


Doctrine and Covenants 20 :

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.


1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one. Joseph Smith translation


Moses 1:6

6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.



COUNSEL GIVEN BY PRESIDENT CHARLES W. PENROSE

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." Well, what is the fulness of the gospel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, Section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is. There God, the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his Son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three Persons in the Trinity—the one God, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principles, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason: If you really believe so as to have faith in our Eternal Father and in his Son, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer, and will hear him, you will learn ail about what is needed to be done for the salvation of the living and redemption of the dead.

. (General Conference Report, April 1922, pp. 27-28.)



The Book of Mormon seems to agree almost completely with the 4th and 5th century Creeds, it seems apparent that the author or authors of the Book of Mormon intended the Book to agree with these Creeds. Could a Mormon please use the Standard works to prove that ONE GOD means one in purpose ?



The Creeds teach that with in the nature of the One God there is three separate and distinct persons, when Jesus prayed to the Father he was praying to a separate and distinct person. At Jesus' baptism we had Jesus being baptized , the Father in heaven saying this is my beloved son a separate person and the Holy Spirit a separate person symbolized as a dove.

 

[Janice Bower]

Could a Mormon please use the Standard works to prove that ONE GOD means one in purpose?

It isn't possible.

 

[brotherofJared]

Could a Mormon please use the Standard works to prove that ONE GOD means one in purpose ?

John 17

Now, could you please show me where in the Bible would prove that ONE GOD means physically one entity? It's obvious they aren't one entity, the baptism of Christ is one. But considering all of the times Christ referred us to a higher power certainly seems like a lie considering if God is one being, then isn't Jesus his own Father?

That theology is so mind-numbing, Idon't see how you all can think straight after trying to explain it because you all can't. No one can. It's a mystery.

 

[The Prophet]

John 17

Now, could you please show me where in the Bible would prove that ONE GOD means physically one entity? It's obvious they aren't one entity, the baptism of Christ is one. But considering all of the times Christ referred us to a higher power certainly seems like a lie considering if God is one being, then isn't Jesus his own Father?

That theology is so mind-numbing, Idon't see how you all can think straight after trying to explain it because you all can't. No one can. It's a mystery.

It's obvious you have no clue what the Trinity teaches ​

 

[Elijah the Tishbite]

John 17

Now, could you please show me where in the Bible would prove that ONE GOD means physically one entity? It's obvious they aren't one entity, the baptism of Christ is one. But considering all of the times Christ referred us to a higher power certainly seems like a lie considering if God is one being, then isn't Jesus his own Father?

That theology is so mind-numbing, Idon't see how you all can think straight after trying to explain it because you all can't. No one can. It's a mystery.

Where are the words ONE IN PURPOSE in John 17

 

[brotherofJared]

Where are the words ONE IN PURPOSE in John 17

Does everything need to be spelled out for u?

 

[RCM]

John 17

Now, could you please show me where in the Bible would prove that ONE GOD means physically one entity?

The Bible doesn't teach that the 'One God' is one physical entity! That is not the definition of the Biblical Triune God

It's obvious they aren't one entity, the baptism of Christ is one. But considering all of the times Christ referred us to a higher power certainly seems like a lie considering if God is one being, then isn't Jesus his own Father?

That theology is so mind-numbing, I don't see how you all can think straight after trying to explain it because you all can't. No one can. It's a mystery.

Like 'The Prophet' said, you have no clue what the Bible teaches and Biblical Christians believe regarding the Triune Nature of the Biblical God

Here is the Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity,


The word "Trinity" comes from the Latin noun "trinitas" meaning "three are one." It was first introduced by Tertullian at the end of the 2nd century but received wide acceptance in the 4th and 5th centuries.

The Doctrine of the Trinity expresses what is taught in Biblical Scripture, (Exodus 3:14; Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 43:10; Matthew 1:23; John 1:1; John 8:58; John 14; Acts 5:1-4; and etc.) that God is defined as three distinct persons who exist as one God, they are co-equal in essence and co-eternal in communion and co-existent eternally from the beginning, they are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit! (Oneness but not sameness, unity and diversity, and order of authority)


This has been explained to you and other mormons before,

God has designed Biblical Marriage between a man and woman to help people understand the nature of the Trinity

Marriage is, Two People, but One Flesh (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:4-6), husband and wife, (Oneness but not sameness, unity and diversity, and order of authority)

In Marriage, a husband and wife exist as 'One Flesh,' so they are 'One in Essence' as defined by God in Genesis 2:24 and by Jesus in Matthew 19:4-6


If you reject the 'Oneness' triune nature of the Biblical God, then you are also saying that a husband and wife cannot be 'One Flesh'



Furthermore, because God stated that one man and one woman united in marriage would become 'One Flesh,' this is another reason that Biblical Christians know that Joseph Smith was a false prophet, for polygamy and D&C 132, cannot reflect the 'One Flesh' of God's directive for Biblical Marriage!



RCM

 

[brotherofJared]

The Bible doesn't teach that the 'One God' is one physical entity!

Excellent observation. How is it that you all believe that He is?

That is not the definition of the Biblical Triune God

I agree. The Bible frequently describes God as three separate physical entities. I can name them if you want.

Like 'The Prophet' said, you have no clue what the Bible teaches and Biblical Christians believe regarding the Triune Nature of the Biblical God

Attacking my understanding isn't an argument. Such arguments results in the same observation about ur understanding.

Here is the Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity,


The word "Trinity" comes from the Latin noun "trinitas" meaning "three are one." It was first introduced by Tertullian at the end of the 2nd century but received wide acceptance in the 4th and 5th centuries.

And on this point, we agree. There are three and they are one.

that God is defined as three distinct persons who exist as one God, they are co-equal in essence and co-eternal in communion and co-existent eternally from the beginning

None of this is an issue either. The difference is in how the word person is defined. We believe that a person is an entity, physically separate from other entities.

they are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit!

Now, you're just repeating me.

Oneness but not sameness, unity and diversity, and order of authority)

Yep. Sounds like three beings who are one in purpose?

This has been explained to you and other mormons before,

If this was all, the our understanding is the same.

God has designed Biblical Marriage between a man and woman to help people understand the nature of the Trinity

I can see the relationship between their oneness in purpose being the same as the oneness in purpose in the Godhead, but that's not it's design.

Marriage is, Two People, but One Flesh (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:4-6), husband and wife, (Oneness but not sameness, unity and diversity, and order of authority)

That oneness is not the oneness of the Trinity.

In Marriage, a husband and wife exist as 'One Flesh,' so they are 'One in Essence' as defined by God in Genesis 2:24 and by Jesus in Matthew 19:4-6

I can't believe you actually believe that, much less repeat it.

If you reject the 'Oneness' triune nature of the Biblical God, then you are also saying that a husband and wife cannot be 'One Flesh'

??? Wow. Just wow. Now ur gaslighting me on top of it. Do u not realize that God's oneness and married couples being of one flesh is NOT the same thing?

If your going to use marriage as an analogy, recognizing that each person in marriage though one is a separate entity, an individual being, then it shouldn't be too hard to see that the triune God consists of three separate individual entities, three beings, three Gods working together as one in purpose just as two entities in marriage work together as one in purpose.

 

[Aaron32]

Excellent observation. How is it that you all believe that He is?

I agree. The Bible frequently describes God as three separate physical entities. I can name them if you want.

Attacking my understanding isn't an argument. Such arguments results in the same observation about ur understanding.

And on this point, we agree. There are three and they are one.


None of this is an issue either. The difference is in how the word person is defined. We believe that a person is an entity, physically separate from other entities.

Now, you're just repeating me.

Yep. Sounds like three beings who are one in purpose?

If this was all, the our understanding is the same.


I can see the relationship between their oneness in purpose being the same as the oneness in purpose in the Godhead, but that's not it's design.

That oneness is not the oneness of the Trinity.

I can't believe you actually believe that, much less repeat it.

??? Wow. Just wow. Now ur gaslighting me on top of it. Do u not realize that God's oneness and married couples being of one flesh is NOT the same thing?

If your going to use marriage as an analogy, recognizing that each person in marriage though one is a separate entity, an individual being, then it shouldn't be too hard to see that the triune God consists of three separate individual entities, three beings, three Gods working together as one in purpose just as two entities in marriage work together as one in purpose.

Yeah, I'm super confused on doctrine of the Trinity now.

 

[Elijah the Tishbite]

Yeah, I'm super confused on doctrine of the Trinity now.

E. Calvin Beisner

God in Three Persons

The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.



We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24



“The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153
All the Persons of the Holy Trinity are IDENTICAL IN ESSENCE but DISTINCT IN PERSONS


John Ankerberg [Everything You Ever Wanted to know about Mormonism]

Page 104-105

1. There is Only One God

2. The Father is God;

3. Jesus Christ, the Son, is God

4. The Holy Spirit is a Person, is eternal and is therefore God

5. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinct persons.



Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

(n.) The union of three persons (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) in one Godhead, so that all the three are one God as to substance, but three persons as to individuality.



Trinity

first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

 

[RCM]

I can't believe you actually believe that, much less repeat it.

Marriage - 'One Flesh' (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:4-6)

Definition of 'Essence,' "the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, that determines its character"

Wow. Just wow. Now ur gaslighting me on top of it. Do u not realize that God's oneness and married couples being of one flesh is NOT the same thing?

Three persons - One God

Two persons - One Flesh

If your going to use marriage as an analogy, recognizing that each person in marriage though one is a separate entity, an individual being, then it shouldn't be too hard to see that the triune God consists of three separate individual entities, three beings, three Gods working together as one in purpose

Who said anything about, 'Purpose'?

Purpose may be used to define the works of God

But, Purpose is not used to define who God is!

Three Persons - One God

just as two entities in marriage work together as one in purpose.

Your logic and theology is about as good as blind tight rope walker


So, according to your logic, if a husband and wife divorce, they are no longer 'One Flesh'? That's not how God sees it


Two Persons - One Flesh


RCM

 

[Magdalena]

Excellent observation. How is it that you all believe that He is?

I agree. The Bible frequently describes God as three separate physical entities. I can name them if you want.

Attacking my understanding isn't an argument. Such arguments results in the same observation about ur understanding.

And on this point, we agree. There are three and they are one.


None of this is an issue either. The difference is in how the word person is defined. We believe that a person is an entity, physically separate from other entities.

Now, you're just repeating me.

Yep. Sounds like three beings who are one in purpose?

If this was all, the our understanding is the same.


I can see the relationship between their oneness in purpose being the same as the oneness in purpose in the Godhead, but that's not it's design.

That oneness is not the oneness of the Trinity.

I can't believe you actually believe that, much less repeat it.

??? Wow. Just wow. Now ur gaslighting me on top of it. Do u not realize that God's oneness and married couples being of one flesh is NOT the same thing?

If your going to use marriage as an analogy, recognizing that each person in marriage though one is a separate entity, an individual being, then it shouldn't be too hard to see that the triune God consists of three separate individual entities, three beings, three Gods working together as one in purpose just as two entities in marriage work together as one in purpose.

Then perhaps you should stop arguing against the Trinity. Seems like you’re just spitting in the wind. It’s been explained to you very well here.

 

[brotherofJared]

The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

Just so u know, this is gaslighting. Basically, if we don't agree with your view of the Bible then we can't remain faithful to the teachings of the new testament. Like u all are the arbiters of truth.

The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

So, this is one entity,bin being with three personalities. Taken in this view, Jesus is His own father. This is modalism.

 

[Magdalena]

Just so u know, this is gaslighting. Basically, if we don't agree with your view of the Bible then we can't remain faithful to the teachings of the new testament. Like u all are the arbiters of truth.

So, this is one entity,bin being with three personalities. Taken in this view, Jesus is His own father. This is modalism.

No. You’re stuck in your own interpretation and you’re not even reading what’s written…

“three distinct persons”

 

[RCM]

Just so u know, this is gaslighting. Basically, if we don't agree with your view of the Bible then we can't remain faithful to the teachings of the new testament. Like u all are the arbiters of truth.

It is not our view, it is what the Bible clearly states; you cannot take the following Scriptures with the Hebrew/Greek definite articles and the Hebrew/Greek personal pronouns, and arrive at a LDS/Mormon theology of God, you simply cannot!

Exodus 3:14; Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 43:10; Matthew 1:23; John 1:1; John 8:58; John 14; Acts 5:1-4; and etc.


I have had this same conversation with Jehovah's Witnesses

It is amazing to me that a Jehovah's Witness and a Mormon can easily grasp the reality that a husband and wife are 'One Flesh' but refuse to apply the same concept to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit being 'One God'

So, this is one entity,bin being with three personalities. Taken in this view, Jesus is His own father. This is modalism.

Modalism is the heresy that the 'One God' reveals Himself in three different forms. This is like one actor playing three different parts in a stage play, one person displaying three different personalities, which Biblical Scripture clearly contradicts!


Husband and Wife - two persons - 'One Flesh'


Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - three persons - 'One God'



RCM

 

[Elijah the Tishbite]

Man also has three distinct and separate parts, since man is made in the image of God ​

1 Thessalonians 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[brotherofJared]

Man also has three distinct and separate parts, since man is made in the image of God

Again, that's your interpretation.

God created the bodies we live in, which is clear from Genesis, but nothing in the scriptures describes a time or a place or how our spirits were made. You all assume it was at birth. I can't accept that because that would mean that God made us the way we are. He created some men to be evil and some to be good. They had no choice. That creates an unjust situation in judgment. How can God be just if he made us the way we are and then judge us for the things He made us to do?

So, no. God didn't create our spirits. What he did, was create a body for our spirits to dwell in. He gave us life that we didn't have before we were born. So, the body is nothing by matter joined to a spirit that has always exited. That joining, body and spirit, makes the soul. So, no. There are not three separate and distinct parts. The spirit is the man, the body connected to the spirit is the same man, the soul is the same man, body and spirit joined.

I hope these make those passages more understandable for you.

 

[Elijah the Tishbite]

Again, that's your interpretation.

God created the bodies we live in, which is clear from Genesis, but nothing in the scriptures describes a time or a place or how our spirits were made. You all assume it was at birth. I can't accept that because that would mean that God made us the way we are. He created some men to be evil and some to be good. They had no choice. That creates an unjust situation in judgment. How can God be just if he made us the way we are and then judge us for the things He made us to do?

So, no. God didn't create our spirits. What he did, was create a body for our spirits to dwell in. He gave us life that we didn't have before we were born. So, the body is nothing by matter joined to a spirit that has always exited. That joining, body and spirit, makes the soul. So, no. There are not three separate and distinct parts. The spirit is the man, the body connected to the spirit is the same man, the soul is the same man, body and spirit joined.

I hope these make those passages more understandable for you.

SECTION 33

1 Behold, I say unto you, my servants aEzra and Northrop, open ye your ears and hearken to the voice of the Lord your God, whose bword is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of the joints and marrow, soul and spirit; and is a discerner of the thoughts and cintents of the heart.

 

[brotherofJared]

SECTION 33

1 Behold, I say unto you, my servants Ezra and Northrop, open ye your ears and hearken to the voice of the Lord your God, whose word is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of the joints and marrow, soul and spirit; and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Clearly, you don't understand what you're reading. God's word isn't really a sword. He's not really going to divide joint and marrow. These are all metaphors referring to judgment. They are intended to show God's power over mortal life. Thanks to Jesus, God's power over immortality has ended. The resurrected being can never be separated, not even by God.

Again, the body and the spirit make the soul.

 

[Magdalena]

Clearly, you don't understand what you're reading. God's word isn't really a sword. He's not really going to divide joint and marrow. These are all metaphors referring to judgment. They are intended to show God's power over mortal life. Thanks to Jesus, God's power over immortality has ended. The resurrected being can never be separated, not even by God.

Again, the body and the spirit make the soul.

You make God sound like a bad guy.