Mormon Jesus Worked Out His Own Salvation!

Janice Bower

Janice Bower

Well-known member
(n) READ THIS:

CHRIST BEGAN MORTALITY AS MEN Do. Our Savior was a God before he was born into this world, and he brought with him that same status when he came here. He was as much a God when he was born into the world as he was before. But as far as this life is concerned it appears that he had to start just as all other children do and gain his knowledge line upon line. Luke says be "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." 32. 46 John records that "he received not of the fulness at the first," but had to progress "from grace to grace, until he received a fulness."32. 47 Paul wrote, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered." 32. 48 HOW HE GAINED LIGHT AND TRUTH. Evidently, before he was 12 years old -- for then he astonished the doctors and wise men in the temple -- he had learned a great deal about his Father's business.32. 49 This knowledge could come to him by revelation, by the visitation of angels, or in some other way. But his knowledge, so far as this life was concerned, had to come line upon line and precept upon precept. Without question he was in communication, from time to time, with his Heavenly Father. The Inspired Version tells us: "Jesus grew up with his brethren, and waxed strong, and waited upon the Lord for the time of his ministry to come. And he served under his father, and he spake not as other men, neither could he be taught; for he needed not that any man should teach him. And after many years, the hour of his ministry drew nigh." 32. 50

HOW HE DID WHAT HE HAD SEEN THE FATHER DO. The statement of our Lord that he could do nothing but what he had seen the Father do, 32. 51 means simply that it had been revealed to him what his Father had done. Without doubt, Jesus came into the world subject to the same condition as was required of each of us -- he forgot everything, and he had to grow from grace to grace. His forgetting, or having his former knowledge taken away, would be requisite just as it is in the case of each of us, to complete the present temporal existence. CHRIST GAINED FULNESS AFTER RESURRECTION. The Savior did not have a fulness at first, but after he received his body and the resurrection all power was given unto him both in heaven and in earth.33. 52 Although he was a God, even the Son of God, with power and authority to create this earth and other earths, yet there were some things lacking which he did not receive until after his resurrection. In other words he had not received the fulness until he got a resurrected body, and the same is true with those who through faithfulness become sons of God. Our bodies are essential to the fulness and the continuation of the seeds forever.33. 53
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation

Also:
“Christ Worked Out His Own Salvation. Christ began mortality as men do. Our Savior was a God before he was born into this world, and he brought with him that same status when he came here. He was as much a God when he was born into the world as he was before. But as far as this life is concerned it appears that he had to start just as other children do and gain his knowledge line upon line” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Selections from Doctrines of Salvation, p. 23. Bold in original).
 
"Christ worked out his own salvation by worshiping the Father. 6. All men must worship the Father in the same way Christ did in order to gain salvation."
Bruce R. McConkie
 
This really gets me:

"Without question he was in communication, from time to time, with his Heavenly Father."

Are they serious?
 
...from time to time, with his Heavenly Father...!

Trinity: Jesus did not pray to Himself.

God is not a sinner and never needed salvation from sin.

Romans 3

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
 
Janice Bower said:
"Christ worked out his own salvation by worshiping the Father. 6. All men must worship the Father in the same way Christ did in order to gain salvation."
Bruce R. McConkie
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This statement conveys the same idea as Matt 16:24 "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."
 
Janice Bower said:
(n) READ THIS:

CHRIST BEGAN MORTALITY AS MEN Do. Our Savior was a God before he was born into this world, and he brought with him that same status when he came here. He was as much a God when he was born into the world as he was before. But as far as this life is concerned it appears that he had to start just as all other children do and gain his knowledge line upon line. Luke says be "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." 32. 46 John records that "he received not of the fulness at the first," but had to progress "from grace to grace, until he received a fulness."32. 47 Paul wrote, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered." 32. 48 HOW HE GAINED LIGHT AND TRUTH. Evidently, before he was 12 years old -- for then he astonished the doctors and wise men in the temple -- he had learned a great deal about his Father's business.32. 49 This knowledge could come to him by revelation, by the visitation of angels, or in some other way. But his knowledge, so far as this life was concerned, had to come line upon line and precept upon precept. Without question he was in communication, from time to time, with his Heavenly Father. The Inspired Version tells us: "Jesus grew up with his brethren, and waxed strong, and waited upon the Lord for the time of his ministry to come. And he served under his father, and he spake not as other men, neither could he be taught; for he needed not that any man should teach him. And after many years, the hour of his ministry drew nigh." 32. 50

HOW HE DID WHAT HE HAD SEEN THE FATHER DO. The statement of our Lord that he could do nothing but what he had seen the Father do, 32. 51 means simply that it had been revealed to him what his Father had done. Without doubt, Jesus came into the world subject to the same condition as was required of each of us -- he forgot everything, and he had to grow from grace to grace. His forgetting, or having his former knowledge taken away, would be requisite just as it is in the case of each of us, to complete the present temporal existence. CHRIST GAINED FULNESS AFTER RESURRECTION. The Savior did not have a fulness at first, but after he received his body and the resurrection all power was given unto him both in heaven and in earth.33. 52 Although he was a God, even the Son of God, with power and authority to create this earth and other earths, yet there were some things lacking which he did not receive until after his resurrection. In other words he had not received the fulness until he got a resurrected body, and the same is true with those who through faithfulness become sons of God. Our bodies are essential to the fulness and the continuation of the seeds forever.33. 53
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation

Also:
“Christ Worked Out His Own Salvation. Christ began mortality as men do. Our Savior was a God before he was born into this world, and he brought with him that same status when he came here. He was as much a God when he was born into the world as he was before. But as far as this life is concerned it appears that he had to start just as other children do and gain his knowledge line upon line” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Selections from Doctrines of Salvation, p. 23. Bold in original).
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Very good job Sister Janice! It's obvious that the Mormons "stole" Philippians 2:12, the part that says, "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. They are taking the verse completely out of context. The Apostle Paul is writing to people who are already Christians.

He is "NOT" saying to work out you salvation to get saved or to stay saved. This statement by Bruce R. McConkie, "
"Christ worked out his own salvation by worshiping the Father. 6. All men must worship the Father in the same way Christ did in order to gain salvation."
Bruce R. McConkie" is flat out wrong.

I will high light the main points that Paul is making and why he wrote what he wrote at vs12. As a side note and to be fair, real Christians at times make the same mistake with verse 12. Starting at vs2 Paul wants the believers to be of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose."

Vs3, They were being selfish and conceited by not putting others first and regarding others as more important than himself. Vs4, they were only interested in themselves. At vs5, Paul explains to have the same attitude as Jesus Christ, who even though He was God (not a god as the Mormons teach) is the ultimate example of putting others first by sacrificing Himself on that cross.

Now we get to vs12. What Paul is trying to point out is they need to "work out the "deliverance/salvation" of their the problems they are having by not putting others first. Vs13 say, "for" or because God is at work in them, both to and work for His good pleasure. All of this is confirmed at vs14, "Do all things without grumbling or disputing. That's the context, period. Keep up the good work Janice!

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 
jamesh said:
Very good job Sister Janice! It's obvious that the Mormons "stole" Philippians 2:12, the part that says, "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. They are taking the verse completely out of context. The Apostle Paul is writing to people who are already Christians.
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I'm not sure why you bring up this point. Do you believe Doctrines of Salvation was written as a proselyting tract or something?
jamesh said:
He is "NOT" saying to work out you salvation to get saved or to stay saved. This statement by Bruce R. McConkie, "
"Christ worked out his own salvation by worshiping the Father. 6. All men must worship the Father in the same way Christ did in order to gain salvation."
Bruce R. McConkie" is flat out wrong.
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Can you compare/contrast how we are to worship the Father in the name of Christ differently than Christ worshipped his Father? I'm not quite clear on your criticism here.
jamesh said:
I will high light the main points that Paul is making and why he wrote what he wrote at vs12. As a side note and to be fair, real Christians at times make the same mistake with verse 12. Starting at vs2 Paul wants the believers to be of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose."

Vs3, They were being selfish and conceited by not putting others first and regarding others as more important than himself. Vs4, they were only interested in themselves. At vs5, Paul explains to have the same attitude as Jesus Christ, who even though He was God (not a god as the Mormons teach) is the ultimate example of putting others first by sacrificing Himself on that cross.

Now we get to vs12. What Paul is trying to point out is they need to "work out the "deliverance/salvation" of their the problems they are having by not putting others first. Vs13 say, "for" or because God is at work in them, both to and work for His good pleasure. All of this is confirmed at vs14, "Do all things without grumbling or disputing. That's the context, period.
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So you're saying the salvation Paul is referring to sanctification rather than justification, correct?
If so, I don't see how Joseph Field Smith is using it differently.

Full quote:
CHRIST BEGAN MORTALITY AS MEN Do. Our Savior was a God before he was born
into this world, and he brought with him that same status when he came here. He was as
much a God when he was born into the world as he was before. But as far as this life is
concerned it appears that he had to start just as all other children do and gain his knowledge
line upon line. Luke says be "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and
man." 32. (Luke 2:52) John records that "he received not of the fulness at the first," but had to progress
"from grace to grace, until he received a fulness. " (D. & C. 93:6-16). 47 Paul wrote, "Though he were a Son,
yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered." (Hebrews 5:8)
 
I thought I made myself clear when I "clearly" explained that the context of Philippians 2, (specifically vs 12) is not about working out you salvation/deliverance is NOT about getting saved or staying saved. Did you not read this quote by Mr. McConkie?

"Christ worked out his own salvation by worshiping the Father. 6. All men must worship the Father in the same way Christ did in order to gain salvation."
Bruce R. McConkie"

Christians are already deemed righteous according to 1 Peter 2:24-25, so again, we do not have to work out our salvation to be saved or to stay saved. That's the "long" and the "short" of it and it has nothing to do with the( quote of "D. & C. 93:6-16)" by Smith.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 
jamesh said:
I thought I made myself clear when I "clearly" explained that the context of Philippians 2, (specifically vs 12) is not about working out you salvation/deliverance is NOT about getting saved or staying saved. Did you not read this quote by Mr. McConkie?
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So, please answer the question I asked. Do you believe Paul was referring to sanctification as opposed to justification?
jamesh said:
"Christ worked out his own salvation by worshiping the Father. 6. All men must worship the Father in the same way Christ did in order to gain salvation."
Bruce R. McConkie"
Click to expand...
Absent what you believe what Phillipians 2:12 means, is there something inherently wrong with McConkie's statement.
jamesh said:
Christians are already deemed righteous according to 1 Peter 2:24-25, so again, we do not have to work out our salvation to be saved or to stay saved. That's the "long" and the "short" of it and it has nothing to do with the( quote of "D. & C. 93:6-16)" by Smith.
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You may be deemed righteous that's justification, but sanctification is removing our sinful nature's from our flesh. Or do you believe we can sin so grace can abound?
 
Janice Bower said:
Absolutely! It is blasphemous to suggest that God the Son needed salvation as Mormons teach.
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Is that how you interpreted it? That Jesus sinned and needed salvation? Oh my. No, Jesus had a work to do, but it wasn't for his own salvation. He emptied Himself..."And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man "(Luke 2:52) We progress spiritually as Jesus did - grace for grace. He is the way, and beckons us to follow Him.
 
Aaron32 said:
Is that how you interpreted it? That Jesus sinned and needed salvation? Oh my. No, Jesus had a work to do, but it wasn't for his own salvation. He emptied Himself..."And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man "(Luke 2:52) We progress spiritually as Jesus did - grace for grace. He is the way, and beckons us to follow Him.
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Jesus was God, but your gods are only men. Your so-called covenants are man-made requirements by evil, power hungry men.
 
"Salvation is a process of gradual development. The Church does not accept the doctrine that a mere murmured belief in Jesus Christ is all that is necessary. A man may say he believes, but if he does nothing to make that belief or faith a moving power to do, to accomplish, to produce soul growth, his professing will avail him nothing. Work out your own salvation' is an exhortation to demonstrate by activity, by thoughtful, obedient effort the reality of faith. But this must be done with a consciousness that absolute dependence upon self may produce pride and weakness that will bring failure. With fear and trembling' we should seek the strength and grace of God for inspiration to obtain the final victory.'To work out one's salvation is not to sit idly by dreaming and yearning for God miraculously to thrust bounteous blessings into our laps. It is to perform daily, hourly, momentarily, if necessary, the immediate task or duty at hand, and to continue happily in such performance as the years come and go, leaving the fruits of such labors either for self or for others to be bestowed as a just and beneficent Father may determine."

Working out one’s salvation requires constant effort, faith​

By Church News Archives 2 Sept 1995, 2:00 AM EDT


Christ never needed salvation. He did not live a Mormon lifestyle or marry and have children.
 
Aaron32 said:
So, please answer the question I asked. Do you believe Paul was referring to sanctification as opposed to justification?

Absent what you believe what Phillipians 2:12 means, is there something inherently wrong with McConkie's statement.

You may be deemed righteous that's justification, but sanctification is removing our sinful nature's from our flesh. Or do you believe we can sin so grace can abound?
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Ye must be born again. That is what God does for His sheep.

John 3:
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Romans 8:
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Quoting Mormonism and commenting on it as if it supports truth won't work.
 
Aaron32 said:
. . .

So you're saying the salvation Paul is referring to sanctification rather than justification, correct?
If so, I don't see how Joseph Field Smith is using it differently.
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There aren't various types of salvation in the Bible.

And President Smith's middle name wasn't Field.
 
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