Mormon teaching on handicapped and black and brown races

organgrinder

Well-known member
We have God's written word. That is sufficient. There are penalties for false prophecies. Mormons want a box full of Mulligan's to support their false prophecies and prophets. What does the written Word of God say, zerinius, concerning false prophets and false prophecies?
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
How do you know? We don't have as much information about biblical prophets as we do about modern prophets. All the information we have about biblical prophets is their canonized scriptures. We don't know what else they said in their lives which may have included mistakes. If all the information we had about modern prophets was their canonized scriptures, we wouldn't know if they had made any mistakes either. Are you suggesting that biblical prophets were infallible? No man is infallible. Only God is infallible. Joseph Smith once said, "I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught." (Teachings, p. 368) That is true of all prophets, including biblical ones.
That’s just the thing. His “revelations” were wrong. That makes him a false prophet.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
LOL! Here a chance now for you to repent of your unbelief, and turn around and follow Christ by accepting his restored Church and gospel in the last days.
I have turned around from the false prophets of mormonism so I can follow Christ. And I am forever grateful to Him.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
LOL! Here a chance now for you to repent of your unbelief, and turn around and follow Christ by accepting his restored Church and gospel in the last days.
We are not saved by belonging to this or that church body, but by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. And your church restored NOTHING, but instead, has enslaved millions of people in extra-biblical theology that has taken them away from the true Gospel of the true Jesus Christ of the Bible, to put their faith in a false Jesus--Satan's brother (!)--and their lying false prophet founder.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
His revelations were correct, and that makes him a true prophet.
He made many prophesies in God's name that did NOT come true. That made him a very false prophet. He also taught gross doctrines that are entirely contradictory to what is already in the Bible. That also made him a false prophet. Big time.

Maggie is right--no one can follow the true Jesus Christ of the Bible and false prophets at the same time. You are a nice guy; please turn to the true Jesus Christ of the Bible to be saved--before it is too late.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
How do you know? We don't have as much information about biblical prophets as we do about modern prophets. All the information we have about biblical prophets is their canonized scriptures. We don't know what else they said in their lives which may have included mistakes. If all the information we had about modern prophets was their canonized scriptures, we wouldn't know if they had made any mistakes either. Are you suggesting that biblical prophets were infallible? No man is infallible. Only God is infallible. Joseph Smith once said, "I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught." (Teachings, p. 368) That is true of all prophets, including biblical ones.
All that is necessary for us to know about the OT prophets was written down for us, under inspiration of the HS. We know that the OT prophets were sinners like us, but when they prophesied in God's name, they did so without error. God Himself told us how to spot a false prophet; so did Jesus.

Deut. 18, KJV:

20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

And

Matthew 7:

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

And JS bore rotten fruit and made false prophesies in God's name. Why then do Mormons keep following him???
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Joseph Smith didn't. He ordained a black man to the priesthood. That was another mistake that was later made by his successors.
So, that makes his successors false prophets, who taught false doctrines. So, why follow them?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
2 Nephi 26:

33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.
Another instance of the three Mormon scriptures (minus the Bible) contradicting each other.

So why did the PoGP deny the priesthood to black men for so long? IF your God is NOT a respecter of persons?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
The dueling prophets of mormonism. They all claim to speak for God. But when the next one disagrees with them, they are thrown under the bus.

They are all false prophets.
Yep. Newer revelation abrogates older revelation. Just like in Islam. Mormons don't know whom they can trust! They may believe what one "prophet" writes but the next one may cancel out what the first guy taught. About as stable as quicksand!
 

Bonnie

Super Member
No back-pedalling. This is what Harold B. Lee himself said:

“If anyone, regardless of his position in the Church, were to advance a doctrine that is not substantiated by the standard Church works, meaning the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, you may know that his statement is merely his private opinion. The only one authorized to bring forth any new doctrine is the President of the Church, who, when he does, will declare it as revelation from God, and it will be so accepted by the Council of the Twelve, and sustained by the body of the Church. And if any man speak a doctrine which contradicts what is in the standard Church works, you may know by that same token that it is false, and you are not bound to accept it as truth.” (Harold B Lee, European Area Conference of the Church, Munich, Germany, 1973.)

“If it is not in the standard works, we may well assume that it is speculation, man’s own personal opinion; and if it contradicts what is in the scripture, it is not true. This is the standard by which we measure all truth.” (Harold B Lee, 11th President, Improvement Era, January 1969, p. 13.)
This is just an lame attempt to cover the collective backside of the LDS Church, when a "prophet" arises that teaches contrary to what a former Prophet taught, or contradicts one of their own Scriptures.

I remember how some on here tried to claim that the "Adam as God" doctrine Young taught was just his opinion and not doctrine. But we proved them wrong. Young himself said that "God revealed it" to him and he even called it "doctrine" if I remember correctly. But some Mormons just insist it was his "opinion" and refused to see the truth. Yet, none of them would admit that teaching false doctrines made him a false prophet. "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see..."

But this begs the question: IF a president of your church teaches contrary to your standard Scriptures and accepted doctrines...why isn't he rebuked and taken down as president?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I'm sorry, Bonnie, but I'm going to have to disagree with you.

Mormons consider a HANDFUL of verses, among the 31,000 verses in all of the Bible, to be "Scripture".

Amos 3:7; ("God does nothing but reveal to the prophets")
Isa. 28:13; ("line upon line");
John 10:34 ("ye are gods");
1 Cor. 8:5 ("there be gods many");
1 Cor. 15:29 ("baptized for the dead");
James 2:24 ("justified not by faith alone");
James 2:26 ("faith without works is dead"):

... and maybe a few others.

But you know all the "only one god" passages that they won't even acknowledge exist, let alone address...
You know all the "faith not works" passages they won't even acknowledge exist, let alone address...

The passages against polygamy...
The passages against marriage after death....
The passages about elders and deacons needing to be older, wise, and married;
And so many others.
Hah! :) But that is what THEY CLAIM--I never said it was true in practice--that they accept the Bible as part of their canon, but in reality, it is only bits and pieces. If it seems to agree with their beliefs ON THE SURFACE, it is part of their Scriptures. If it disagrees with their doctrines, then that is one of the areas that wasn't translated correctly, or stuff was taken out of it...

Some also refuse to see the bald truth in some unambiguous Bible verses, like the ones that clearly say that Moses died and God buried him. Yet, one Mormon on here tried to tell me those verses were not literal and were figurative, that it just meant that God "took him out of the way." Yet, the text says that God buried him on a certain plain and that no one knows to this day where his grave is. I found some other verses that substantiate this claim:

(Deut. 32, NIV)

Moses to Die on Mount Nebo​

48 On that same day the Lord told Moses, 49 “Go up into the Abarim Range to Mount Nebo in Moab, across from Jericho, and view Canaan, the land I am giving the Israelites as their own possession. 50 There on the mountain that you have climbed you will DIE and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron DIED on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people....

(Deut. 34) 5 And Moses the servant of the Lord DIED there in Moab, as the Lord had said. 6 He BURIED him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his GRAVE is.
Aaron physically died. Here God tells Moses that he, too, will die, just as Aaron did.

Yet, they are taught that Moses did not die, but was "translated" to heaven. This is a classic example of Mormons making an empty claim that they believe the Bible. They only believe parts of it, that parts they want to believe. Not what it actually has in it.
 

The Prophet

Active member
Those statements by Harold B. Lee are mistakes. It doesn't make him a false prophet, it just means that prophets are not infallible, and can make mistakes. There are two points to note about those quotes. Firstly, he makes it clear that he is expressing an opinion, he is just guessing. He is not making a prophetic statement, and he is not quoting scripture. Secondly, his statement is contradicted by scripture:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:

38 Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God.


Nobody is born in this world with excess baggage from the preexistence. If some appear to be born in disadvantaged situations, it is entirely due to circumstances incidental to mortality. It has nothing to do with the preexistence.

Those statements by Harold B. Lee are mistakes. It doesn't make him a false prophet, it just means that prophets are not infallible, and can make mistakes. There are two points to note about those quotes. Firstly, he makes it clear that he is expressing an opinion, he is just guessing. He is not making a prophetic statement, and he is not quoting scripture. Secondly, his statement is contradicted by scripture:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:

38 Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God.


Nobody is born in this world with excess baggage from the preexistence. If some appear to be born in disadvantaged situations, it is entirely due to circumstances incidental to mortality. It has nothing to do with the preexistence.
if you notice he did quote scripture John 9:2 :)
 

zerinus

Well-known member
We have God's written word. That is sufficient.
If you had believed the Bible, you would have believed the Book of Mormon too, because they both came from the same source. The fact that you don't believe in the second, is evidence that you don't believe in the first neither.
There are penalties for false prophecies.
There are also penalties for disbelieving the true ones.
Mormons want a box full of Mulligan's to support their false prophecies and prophets. What does the written Word of God say, zerinius, concerning false prophets and false prophecies?
What does it say about disbelieving the true ones?
 

zerinus

Well-known member
We are not saved by belonging to this or that church body, but by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. And your church restored NOTHING, but instead, has enslaved millions of people in extra-biblical theology that has taken them away from the true Gospel of the true Jesus Christ of the Bible, to put their faith in a false Jesus--Satan's brother (!)--and their lying false prophet founder.
Mormonism is true, and nobody who knowingly and willfully rejects it can be saved.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
And JS bore rotten fruit and made false prophesies in God's name. Why then do Mormons keep following him???
Joseph Smith was a true prophet who gave us the word of God, and restored God's true Church which had apostatized; and those who reject him will be condemned, the same as those who rejected the earlier prophets.
 
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