Mormonism and the Bible

[Redeemed]

Rightly dividing the Word of God 's is of extreme importance so you can apply the knowledge and wisdom within God's Word to your life. "God's Word is Truth"

The Bible clearly teaches a supernatural foundation for truth, and a divine mandate for us to act and speak truthfully.

2 Timothy 2:. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

I don't believe that is practiced in Mormonism. They have a far different motive that involves deception. Mormonism wants to deceive you to bring you into their cult. If asked if they believe in the Bible they will tell you they do. But they have their own way of looking at the Bible that they're not going to tell you about. But they have no problem telling the rest of us our way of interpreting the Bible is wrong. Rather presumptuous of them. But if you tell the same lie over and over someone's bound to believe it.

But not to worry, we can examine it here on this forum in accordance with 2 Timothy 2:15.

Joseph Smith the founder of Mormonism states in his eighth article of faith:

"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the book of Mormon to be the word of God."

As far as it is translated correctly is the disclaimer. Smith is laying the groundwork for the Bible to say whatever Mormonism needs it to say to go along with their false theology. They know that the Bible has been translated correctly. It's common knowledge, all the information is available to prove that the Bible is reliable and translated correctly. In this day and age with the information highway it's easy to find out the Bible is what it says it is. And still They would like you to believe that Only they have the truth. A lot of parts of the world that could get you in big trouble.

Here's a couple of quotes from Mormonism governing literature that they use to lead many to assume that there few of the Bible is the same as mainstream Christianity. That's not the case they actually attack the Bible claiming it is mistranslated and incomplete. That leaves them a lot of leeway to fill in the blanks with their false teaching.

The first quote is from Bruce McConkie: members of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints (known informally by the nickname Mormons) believe the Bible. In indeed, so literally and completely to their beliefs and practices conform to the teachings of the Bible that it is not uncommon to hear informed person say: if all men believe the Bible all would be Mormons. Bible doctrine is Mormon doctrine, and Mormon doctrine is Bible doctrine. They are one in the same. (From what the Mormons think of Christ)

Next James Talmage: The church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints accepts the holy Bible as the foremost of her standard works, first among the books which have been proclaimed as her written guides in faith and doctrine. (A. Of F p.236)

Reading that you might believe that Mormonism is all the Bible. But that's not the case. Talmage goes on to explain that the Bible is incomplete and is incorrectly translated. That's the change–up. You will see the change–up quite often and all through the history of Mormonism. When something works at a particular point in time "It's the truth" and then things change and they need a upgrade. A new and improved set of falsehoods. In other words they are not consistent in their beliefs because their beliefs are based on a lie. Lies change the truth doesn't!

So here's how they pull that off.

The mis-translation of the Bible suggested in the eighth article of faith:

"There will be, there can be, no absolute reliable translation of these or other Scriptures unless it be affected through the gift of translation, as one of the endowments of the Holy Ghost... Let the Bible then be read reverently and with prayerful care, the reader ever seeking the light of the spirit that he may discern between truth and the errors of man.

That may sound well and good on the surface, but when you realize that tactic being employed here it's obvious that once again their purpose is only to deceive you.

For instance in the first sentence they would like us to believe is that they alone are capable of translating the Bible. What that means is they want you to believe there deception. And rely solely on them and there deception. And to add some credence to deception they bring in the name of Holy Spirit for back up.

Sounds real good also, but once again it's like a magic act. They wave a handkerchief around with their left hand so you don't notice what the right hand is doing. What the right hand is doing is erasing all the historical teaching that all the great theologians given us. They only want you to look into their magic hat, with a rock in it so you can rightly discern between truth and the errors of man. In other words forget about the Bible and let's focus on Mormonism and all their deceitful teaching.

I'll take what all the great theologians teach and what some of the top posters here on these forms have to say about Bible truth over Mormonism any day.

My reason for that statement is because if one does this:

2 Timothy 2:. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

You can tell... It's obvious the top posters know what they're talking about. You can see it all the time here. And it's in the Bible!

You Shall Know the Truth. Jesus said, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

The top posters here teach us the truth read their posts and see.

Mormonism doesn't have the truth. They would like you think they do, but it takes very little study to find out they don't. What's amazing is the depth of the lie that they live in. And the worst part is the lives they destroy by getting people to fall for the lie.

That's why they need our prayers.

 

[zerinus]

Rightly dividing the Word of God 's is of extreme importance so you can apply the knowledge and wisdom within God's Word to your life. "God's Word is Truth"

The Bible clearly teaches a supernatural foundation for truth, and a divine mandate for us to act and speak truthfully.

2 Timothy 2:. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

I don't believe that is practiced in Mormonism. They have a far different motive that involves deception. Mormonism wants to deceive you to bring you into their cult. If asked if they believe in the Bible they will tell you they do. But they have their own way of looking at the Bible that they're not going to tell you about. But they have no problem telling the rest of us our way of interpreting the Bible is wrong. Rather presumptuous of them. But if you tell the same lie over and over someone's bound to believe it.

But not to worry, we can examine it here on this forum in accordance with 2 Timothy 2:15.

Joseph Smith the founder of Mormonism states in his eighth article of faith:

"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the book of Mormon to be the word of God."

As far as it is translated correctly is the disclaimer. Smith is laying the groundwork for the Bible to say whatever Mormonism needs it to say to go along with their false theology. They know that the Bible has been translated correctly. It's common knowledge, all the information is available to prove that the Bible is reliable and translated correctly. In this day and age with the information highway it's easy to find out the Bible is what it says it is. And still They would like you to believe that Only they have the truth. A lot of parts of the world that could get you in big trouble.

Here's a couple of quotes from Mormonism governing literature that they use to lead many to assume that there few of the Bible is the same as mainstream Christianity. That's not the case they actually attack the Bible claiming it is mistranslated and incomplete. That leaves them a lot of leeway to fill in the blanks with their false teaching.

The first quote is from Bruce McConkie: members of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints (known informally by the nickname Mormons) believe the Bible. In indeed, so literally and completely to their beliefs and practices conform to the teachings of the Bible that it is not uncommon to hear informed person say: if all men believe the Bible all would be Mormons. Bible doctrine is Mormon doctrine, and Mormon doctrine is Bible doctrine. They are one in the same. (From what the Mormons think of Christ)

Next James Talmage: The church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints accepts the holy Bible as the foremost of her standard works, first among the books which have been proclaimed as her written guides in faith and doctrine. (A. Of F p.236)

Reading that you might believe that Mormonism is all the Bible. But that's not the case. Talmage goes on to explain that the Bible is incomplete and is incorrectly translated. That's the change–up. You will see the change–up quite often and all through the history of Mormonism. When something works at a particular point in time "It's the truth" and then things change and they need a upgrade. A new and improved set of falsehoods. In other words they are not consistent in their beliefs because their beliefs are based on a lie. Lies change the truth doesn't!

So here's how they pull that off.

The mis-translation of the Bible suggested in the eighth article of faith:

"There will be, there can be, no absolute reliable translation of these or other Scriptures unless it be affected through the gift of translation, as one of the endowments of the Holy Ghost... Let the Bible then be read reverently and with prayerful care, the reader ever seeking the light of the spirit that he may discern between truth and the errors of man.

That may sound well and good on the surface, but when you realize that tactic being employed here it's obvious that once again their purpose is only to deceive you.

For instance in the first sentence they would like us to believe is that they alone are capable of translating the Bible. What that means is they want you to believe there deception. And rely solely on them and there deception. And to add some credence to deception they bring in the name of Holy Spirit for back up.

Sounds real good also, but once again it's like a magic act. They wave a handkerchief around with their left hand so you don't notice what the right hand is doing. What the right hand is doing is erasing all the historical teaching that all the great theologians given us. They only want you to look into their magic hat, with a rock in it so you can rightly discern between truth and the errors of man. In other words forget about the Bible and let's focus on Mormonism and all their deceitful teaching.

I'll take what all the great theologians teach and what some of the top posters here on these forms have to say about Bible truth over Mormonism any day.

My reason for that statement is because if one does this:

2 Timothy 2:. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

You can tell... It's obvious the top posters know what they're talking about. You can see it all the time here. And it's in the Bible!

You Shall Know the Truth. Jesus said, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

The top posters here teach us the truth read their posts and see.

Mormonism doesn't have the truth. They would like you think they do, but it takes very little study to find out they don't. What's amazing is the depth of the lie that they live in. And the worst part is the lives they destroy by getting people to fall for the lie.

That's why they need our prayers.

This is simply a long, anti-Mormon rant. It contains nothing of substance that can be discussed and debated over. If your objective here is simply to rant against Mormonism, nobody is going to stop you. But pretty soon everybody is doing to get bored, and stop reading.

 

[Bonnie]

This is simply a long, anti-Mormon rant. It contains nothing of substance that can be discussed and debated over. If your objective here is simply to rant against Mormonism, nobody is going to stop you. But pretty soon everybody is doing to get bored, and stop reading.

It is not an "anti-Mormon" rant. What he wrote is the truth. Mormonism claims it believes the Bible, but experience on here has shown us that they only believe the parts they want to believe, that seem to support their heretical doctrines, but ignore the OTHER Bible verses that put their cherry-picked verses into proper perspective and show what they REALLY mean. That goes on all the time on here, Zerinus.

Do Mormon missionaries bring up the three levels of heaven and about exaltation to Godhood with prospective converts, before they are baptized into your church? Do they explain that men can become gods?

 

[dberrie2020]

Rightly dividing the Word of God 's is of extreme importance so you can apply the knowledge and wisdom within God's Word to your life. "God's Word is Truth"

The Bible clearly teaches a supernatural foundation for truth, and a divine mandate for us to act and speak truthfully.

2 Timothy 2:. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

I don't believe that is practiced in Mormonism. They have a far different motive that involves deception. Mormonism wants to deceive you to bring you into their cult. If asked if they believe in the Bible they will tell you they do. But they have their own way of looking at the Bible that they're not going to tell you about. But they have no problem telling the rest of us our way of interpreting the Bible is wrong. Rather presumptuous of them. But if you tell the same lie over and over someone's bound to believe it.

So--let's cut to the chase.

What do you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

It certainly doesn't fit faith alone theology.

Philippians 2:12---King James Version
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Redeemed]

It is not an "anti-Mormon" rant. What he wrote is the truth. Mormonism claims it believes the Bible, but experience on here has shown us that they only believe the parts they want to believe, that seem to support their heretical doctrines, but ignore the OTHER Bible verses that put their cherry-picked verses into proper perspective and show what they REALLY mean. That goes on all the time on here, Zerinus.

Do Mormon missionaries bring up the three levels of heaven and about exaltation to Godhood with prospective converts, before they are baptized into your church? Do they explain that men can become gods?

I like that post Bonnie short and to the point! Speaking the truth in love and gentleness, you got this down. I like what you mentioned about the three levels of heaven not being brought up In witnessing.

Not that I'm into rants but if I were the three levels of heaven would make an excellent rant.

 

[zerinus]

Not that I'm into rants but if I were the three levels of heaven would make an excellent rant.

What about the three levels of heaven? Jesus says that in his Father's house there are “many mansions,” and Paul tells us that he was taken to the “third heaven”. So what is the big deal about three levels of heaven?

 

[Magdalena]

What about the three levels of heaven? Jesus says that in his Father's house there are “many mansions,” and Paul tells us that he was taken to the “third heaven”. So what is the big deal about three levels of heaven?

How do you know there are only 3?

 

[Bonnie]

What about the three levels of heaven? Jesus says that in his Father's house there are “many mansions,” and Paul tells us that he was taken to the “third heaven”. So what is the big deal about three levels of heaven?

. Do you really think that heaven is one gigantic literal mansion, with those exalted to godhood living in penthpuser, with those in the Terrestrial heaven living in the middle rooms, with those in the Telestial kingdom consigned to the basement?

Jesus is just using a figure of speech, to illustrate that there is a place in heaven for all the saved to dwell with God the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. Because remember, at His Second Coming, He will say to the sheep, to inherit the Kingdom--one, not 3--prepared for them from the foundation of the world.

 

[zerinus]

How do you know there are only 3?

Paul says that he was taken to the third, implying the highest. That reduces it to three.

 

[Bonnie]

Paul says that he was taken to the third, implying the highest. That reduces it to three.

Paul did not go to the highest level of Mormon heaven, but THE highest heaven, where God dwells. Below is an explanation, complete with Bible verses, as to what the other two heavens are:

Biblos put this down on here years ago; so did Theo. It took a lot of research to show what the other two levels of heaven truly are--all from the Bible:

The First Heaven: Earth Atmosphere

“The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were also stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained.” (Genesis 8:2)
“Then the LORD's anger will burn against you, and he will shut the heavens so that it will not rain and the ground will yield no produce....”(Deuteronomy 11:17)
“The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands.” (Deuteronomy 28:12)
"O LORD, when you went out from Seir, when you marched from the land of Edom, the earth shook, the heavens poured, the clouds poured down water.” (Judges 5:4)
“When the heavens are shut up and there is no rain because they have sinned against you …” (1 Kings 8:35)
"Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons...” (Acts 14:17)

The Second Heaven: Outer Space

“Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” (Genesis 15:5)
“In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun... It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other...” (Psalm 19:4, 6)
“They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens which they have loved and served....” (Jeremiah 8:2)
“The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light.” (Isaiah 13:10)

The Third Heaven: God's Dwelling Place

“To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.” (Deuteronomy 10:14)
“… and their prayer came up to His holy dwelling place, to heaven.” (2 Chronicles 30:27)
"But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you.” (1 Kings 8:27)
(phrase repeated numerous times in following verses) “then hear from heaven, your dwelling place...” (1 Kings 8:30)
“The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them.” (Psalm 2:4)
“Unto you I lift up my eyes, O You who dwell in the heavens.” (Psalm 123:1)
“In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.” (Matthew 5:16)

And I might add, he beginning of the Lord's prayer, "Our Father, Who art IN HEAVEN..."

 

[Bonnie]

How do you know there are only 3?

Where does the Bible actually list the 3 levels of heaven, and NAME them, and list who goes where after death?

 

[Bonnie]

I like that post Bonnie short and to the point! Speaking the truth in love and gentleness, you got this down. I like what you mentioned about the three levels of heaven not being brought up In witnessing.

Not that I'm into rants but if I were the three levels of heaven would make an excellent rant.

I would be interested in knowing if Mormon missionaries NOW are instructed to bring up exaltation to godhood and temple works that must be done to achieve that, to their prospective converts. I know in the past they did not, but I was wondering if that has changed recently.

 

[Theo1689]

What about the three levels of heaven? Jesus says that in his Father's house there are “many mansions,” and Paul tells us that he was taken to the “third heaven”. So what is the big deal about three levels of heaven?

First of all, "mansions" doesn't mean "heavens". You're really grasping at straws here.
And even if it did refer to heavens, "three" is NOT "many". "Three" is regarded as "few".

As for what "heaven" means, it's important to note that the vocabulary of the Greeks wasn't nearly as expansive as in English.

They had a word, "ouranos" (from which we get, "Uranus").

Where do the birds fly? In the "ouranos". (eg. Mark 4:32)
Where are the stars found? In the "ouranos". (eg. Rev. 6:13)
Where does God dwell? "In the "ouranos" (eg. Matt. 5:16).

Funny how there are "three" meanings to this Greek word.
(Btw, the same is true for the Hebrew word, "shamayim".)

So 2 Cor. 12 is NOT referring to three of what we call "heavens".
It's referring to the THIRD of three of what Paul called "ouranos".
And that would be the Father's dwelling.

In fact, Paul equates "the third heaven" to "paradise" with this parallelism:

2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.
2Co 12:3 And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—

So Paul didn't speak of "three heavens".

He spoke of "three ouranoses"
1) sky;
2) cosmic space;
3) "heaven".

And Bonnie can tell you I've posted this before. But I don't simply whine, "I've posted it before, so your criticism is answered". I'll either write it out again (like I just did), or else copy and paste it from before, or link to the post where I posted it before.

 

[Redeemed]

Paul did not go to the highest level of Mormon heaven, but THE highest heaven, where God dwells. Below is an explanation, complete with Bible verses, as to what the other two heavens are:

Biblos put this down on here years ago; so did Theo. It took a lot of research to show what the other two levels of heaven truly are--all from the Bible:

Exactly! That's the way I've always had a talk to me and that's within all the books I've ever read about it.

 

[Redeemed]

First of all, "mansions" doesn't mean "heavens". You're really grasping at straws here.
And even if it did refer to heavens, "three" is NOT "many". "Three" is regarded as "few".

As for what "heaven" means, it's important to note that the vocabulary of the Greeks wasn't nearly as expansive as in English.

They had a word, "ouranos" (from which we get, "Uranus").

Where do the birds fly? In the "ouranos". (eg. Mark 4:32)
Where are the stars found? In the "ouranos". (eg. Rev. 6:13)
Where does God dwell? "In the "ouranos" (eg. Matt. 5:16).

Funny how there are "three" meanings to this Greek word.
(Btw, the same is true for the Hebrew word, "shamayim".)

So 2 Cor. 12 is NOT referring to three of what we call "heavens".
It's referring to the THIRD of three of what Paul called "ouranos".
And that would be the Father's dwelling.

In fact, Paul equates "the third heaven" to "paradise" with this parallelism:

2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.
2Co 12:3 And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—

So Paul didn't speak of "three heavens".

He spoke of "three ouranoses"
1) sky;
2) cosmic space;
3) "heaven".

And Bonnie can tell you I've posted this before. But I don't simply whine, "I've posted it before, so your criticism is answered". I'll either write it out again (like I just did), or else copy and paste it from before, or link to the post where I posted it before.

Exactly, that's why your one of the top posters... That actually knows what they're talking about! I read one of your posts from a long time ago. Maybe a couple of crashed boards back when I was just lurking around. It was in the Armenian vs Calvinism forum. And you were explaining why we do this why it's important to stand up against the lies. I don't remember exactly what it said but I do know it made a lot of sense. That we are not to just bow down but stand up for the truth found in God's word. BTW does "ouranos" οὐρανός, οῦ, ὁ come from Ignoramus? Because I think I saw a couple of those flying here.

 

[Magdalena]

Paul says that he was taken to the third, implying the highest. That reduces it to three.

God said there are many. That could mean anything.

 

[zerinus]

Exactly! That's the way I've always had a talk to me and that's within all the books I've ever read about it.

I will tell you what is wrong with that. When Paul says that he was taken to the “third heaven,” the implication is that he could have been taken to one of the other two, but wasn't. All the “three heavens” are places to which he could have been taken, otherwise there would have been no point in specifying the “third” one. So he could have been taken to the atmosphere, where the clouds are? Or to the outer space? What would be the point of taking anybody there?

 

[Bonnie]

God said there are many. That could mean anything.

Yes. And Jesus was simply using a figure of speech, a metaphor...apparently, some in Mormonism do not seem to understand what that is. Jesus was just saying that there was room for all believers in heaven with Him and His Father.

 

[brotherofJared]

Rightly dividing the Word of God 's is of extreme importance so you can apply the knowledge and wisdom within God's Word to your life. "God's Word is Truth"

Correct, but I don't need you to rightly divide them for me.

I don't believe that is practiced in Mormonism.

Of course you don't. If you did, then you know you're in the wrong place. I think this point is rather moot.

They have a far different motive that involves deception.

LOL. Says the blind as he attempts to lead.

Mormonism wants to deceive you to bring you into their cult.

Now comes the part where you deceive in an attempt to keep people from entering our "cult".

If asked if they believe in the Bible they will tell you they do.

And we do.

But they have their own way of looking at the Bible that they're not going to tell you about.

Uh-huh. And how is it that you have anything to argue about what we believe if we don't tell you what we believe from it? Even your argument is unbelievable.

In this day and age with the information highway it's easy to find out the Bible is what it says it is.

hahahahahahahaha
In this day as in every day that the Bible was available in our own language, the easiest way is to read it. All the information Highway does is obfuscate the plain text. We get to find out that some parts are unreliable, according to our critics who don't teach the Bible, but instead, teach their traditions instead.

Anyone who can read can see in the New Testament that there are three Gods in the Godhead. They each have names. We know who they are. God the Father wasn't crucified, Jesus was. That's a point of fact. Yet your tradition teaches that they are the same being, yet in every argument, like the one about God is spirit, suddenly decides to separate them. And you think the "information highway" is going to clear that up? LOL. When the dust settles, we find is nothing of the sort. We get statements like, it's a mystery. Nothing is impossible with God. That's not an explanation. That is blowing smoke in your face with a statement that that's the way it is, don't question it. That's tradition.

But they have no problem telling the rest of us our way of interpreting the Bible is wrong. Rather presumptuous of them.

And, aren't you being presumptuous by tell us that our way of interpreting the Bible is wrong? Such a double standard.

But if you tell the same lie over and over someone's bound to believe it.

No kidding. Your ilk has had hundreds of years telling the same lie over and over and look at the results. LOL Your sieve isn't holding water. That comes as no surprise. I'll read the rest of your tripe to see if anything is ever worth arguing.

 

[brotherofJared]

Yep. As I suspected, nothing of substance.