Mormonism and the council of "gods" in Ps. 82, by Matt Slick

Bonnie

Super Member
I know. Everything I told you was from Ps 82. :rolleyes:
Was it?
Tell that you Jesus Christ. He might be surprised that, according to you, Divine beings do not die like men. Maybe you don't believe Jesus is a divine being. I'm not sure what you guys believe now, it tends to shift so much... depends on what argument you're supporting at any given time. Didn't you just shift on your stances about works and faith?

Jesus was BOTH 100% God AND 100% man--He could die BECAUSE He was also a mortal man, when He walked this earth. His human nature died on the cross, but His God nature did NOT--else why would He say, in John 2, "Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up"? And He meant the temple of His body?

So, if these "gods" in Ps. 82 were not yet mortal, but only gods, then how would they die like men?

No, I didn't shift my stance about faith and works...that is for another thread.
Please note, those beings that shouted for joy were sons of God. Whoever these gods were, they were sons of God, all of them.

Could be angels. As we have stated before on here, "gods" can have several meanings, depending upon context. But "sons' can also be figurative, meaning that they were sons of God by reason that He created them. He did not procreate them.
The key to understanding who these beings are is the setting. Council of El, all were sons of God, even the bad ones.

So, there were pre-mortal bad spirit gods? In heaven? Before God laid the foundation of the earth? Who were favoring the wicked and making unjust judgments? There were fatherless and poor people in this heavenly realm that were being exploited?
Now, where on earth do we see any relationship between the sons of God and human judges - evil human judges. Any thoughts about actually discussing the topic?
I have been discussing the topic--where were you?
 
Last edited:

brotherofJared

Well-known member
And YOU addressed things that aren't even in Ps. 82, like the beings that "shouted for joy" at the world's creation.
I can't help it if you missed the point. My argument wasn't about shouting for joy. I guess that one went completely over your head. However, you keep insisting that Ps 82 includes widows and orphans and it has neither of those.

If we examine where else sons of God are mentioned in the Bible, let's see how many of them might equate to human judges - evil human judges.
  • Rom 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God - Nope. Not that one
  • Gal 3:26 - For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus - Nope. Not that one
  • 2 Cor 6:18 - For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God - Nope. Not that one
  • John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, - Nope. Not that one
  • Gen 6:2 - That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair. - This one, possible - but who were they?
  • Gal 4:5 - For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God - Nope. Not that one.
  • Job 38:7- when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy - This one, possible
  • Matt 5:9 - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God - Nope. Not that one.
  • Rom 8:19 - For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God - Probably not this one.
  • Deut 32:8 - he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. - This one is under debate - is it gods or sons of God?
  • 1 John 3:2 - Beloved, now are we the sons of God, - Nope. Not that one.
  • 1 John 3:1 - Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: - Nope. Not that one.
  • 1 John 5:12 - Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. - Here's one of the sons of God, but this one doesn't help either.
  • Heb 12:8 - alludes to sons of God - if not partakers of chastisement then we cannot consider ourselves as sons of God
  • Rom 8:16 - The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, - close, could be, but not related
  • Rom 9:8 - This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. - also doesn't help you
  • Job 2:1 (1:6) - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD. - This one, very possible. Here we have the sons of God with Satan all in one group. This one deserves additional comment. What was Satan doing there? Will he die like a man?
  • Eph 1:5 - he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons - Nope. Not this one
  • Matt 5:45 - so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven - Nope. Not this one.
  • Eph 5:1 - Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. - Nope. Not this one.
I'm sure this isn't a complete list. John 10 and Ps 82 are missing, John 10 because Jesus doesn't use the words "sons of God. He only uses the words "I said, Ye are gods". And, Ps 82 because the term is sons of the Most High. Luke 6:35 uses this latter phrase: "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High,"

So, for the most part, these "sons of God" are yet to be made. These cannot possibly be wicked human judges, right?
Then we have two left over, both in Job. Both present these "sons" in council with God, one before the foundation of the world and the second it is just described as "there was a day"

None of these references connect the sons of God or the sons of the Most High with human judges. However, we do see where wicked beings can meet and discuss things with God. Where do you suppose that happens? How many humans appear in that council? I'll tell you, none.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Oh? I believe you wrote this, post no. 65 on here?

SO--how many true Gods does that make, boJ? And I think you know WHY we need to count how many "true" Gods there are in the universe....
Where do you see an argument about how many true Gods there are? Are you saying there is more than one true God?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
yes. Our critics appear to be ignorant of our teachings.

Is President Snow’s statement—‘As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be’—accepted as official doctrine? (churchofjesuschrist.org)
What has this got to do with pre-mortal existence and Ps 82? Nothing. It's clear from the comment made that you guys are clueless about what we believe.

I'll include your quoted text to address it.
“The Patriarch was the father of Joseph, the Prophet. That was the first time Lorenzo had met him. After the services, they were introduced, and Father Smith said to my brother that he would soon be convinced of the truth of the latter-day work, and be baptized; and he said: ‘You will become as great as you can possibly wish—EVEN AS GREAT AS GOD, and you cannot wish to be greater.’” (Eliza R. Snow, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow, Salt Lake City: Deseret News Co., 1884, pp. 9–10.)
Becoming as great as the being who is God is not the same as being a god. You need to disconnect those two ideas from our theology. As I stated before, your definition of what a god is does not appear to be the same as God's definition. God, in Ps 82, addresses wicked beings and says they are gods. That clearly violates your definition of a god. But, since God is saying, it obviously doesn't violate God's definition. Perhaps you should learn from his word instead of trying to make his word fit yours.

This should address all your other posts which I believe try to make becoming like god the same as being a god. That is not what we believe.
Our Heavenly Father has a plan for man’s growth from infancy to godhood. It is not always an easy life, but it can be most rewarding, depending upon our attitude toward it.
Ok. This isn't about being like God, so it is a little different, but it's still referring to growth, not a change in titles. Our scriptures specify what makes a being a god. The essence of that doctrine is found here in D&C 132: 19-20 "...which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end..."

What makes us gods? in a nutshell, having no end, makes us gods. So, it appears that we have always been gods until we do something that damns or stops us from continuing forever. Beings that this happens to would be anyone who isn't married for eternity. In another case, it would be anyone who didn't obtain a body accepting Christ's plan over Lucifers. There may be other "damning" things we might have done along the way that would have ended our "progress" but we don't know about any of those. We are certain that Satan's progress has an end, not in his life, but in is ability to continue the seeds.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I can't help it if you missed the point. My argument wasn't about shouting for joy. I guess that one went completely over your head. However, you keep insisting that Ps 82 includes widows and orphans and it has neither of those.

If we examine where else sons of God are mentioned in the Bible, let's see how many of them might equate to human judges - evil human judges.
  • Rom 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God - Nope. Not that one
  • Gal 3:26 - For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus - Nope. Not that one
  • 2 Cor 6:18 - For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God - Nope. Not that one
  • John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, - Nope. Not that one
  • Gen 6:2 - That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair. - This one, possible - but who were they?
  • Gal 4:5 - For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God - Nope. Not that one.
  • Job 38:7- when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy - This one, possible
  • Matt 5:9 - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God - Nope. Not that one.
  • Rom 8:19 - For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God - Probably not this one.
  • Deut 32:8 - he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. - This one is under debate - is it gods or sons of God?
  • 1 John 3:2 - Beloved, now are we the sons of God, - Nope. Not that one.
  • 1 John 3:1 - Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: - Nope. Not that one.
  • 1 John 5:12 - Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. - Here's one of the sons of God, but this one doesn't help either.
  • Heb 12:8 - alludes to sons of God - if not partakers of chastisement then we cannot consider ourselves as sons of God
  • Rom 8:16 - The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, - close, could be, but not related
  • Rom 9:8 - This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. - also doesn't help you
  • Job 2:1 (1:6) - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD. - This one, very possible. Here we have the sons of God with Satan all in one group. This one deserves additional comment. What was Satan doing there? Will he die like a man?
  • Eph 1:5 - he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons - Nope. Not this one
  • Matt 5:45 - so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven - Nope. Not this one.
  • Eph 5:1 - Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. - Nope. Not this one.
I'm sure this isn't a complete list. John 10 and Ps 82 are missing, John 10 because Jesus doesn't use the words "sons of God. He only uses the words "I said, Ye are gods". And, Ps 82 because the term is sons of the Most High. Luke 6:35 uses this latter phrase: "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High,"

So, for the most part, these "sons of God" are yet to be made. These cannot possibly be wicked human judges, right?
Then we have two left over, both in Job. Both present these "sons" in council with God, one before the foundation of the world and the second it is just described as "there was a day"

None of these references connect the sons of God or the sons of the Most High with human judges. However, we do see where wicked beings can meet and discuss things with God. Where do you suppose that happens? How many humans appear in that council? I'll tell you, none.
No, it did not go "over my head." Where did I even mention the shouting for joy part? I just said that was another context and these "sons of God" could be referring to angels.

But "son" can have a figurative meaning, can't it? It doesn't always mean a literal, procreated male child, does it? And what makes you think that these "sons of God" are "yet to be made"? They seemed already to exist, didn't they?

Again, context is of the utmost importance. Yes, the "gods" in Ps. 82 CAN be human judges and rulers, for why would gods in heaven be favoring the wicked and making unjust judgments, especially if this Psalm supposedly took place before God laid the foundation of the world? Who would there be to favor and make unjust judgments against? IF the earth hadn't been laid down yet? Were there widows and orphans and poor people in heaven???

You are filtering all of these "sons" verses through aberrant Mormon glasses, instead of taking ALL of what the bible has to say about them, in order to judge aright what all of these verses mean. Like ignoring all of the verses that say only one God exists, that both Theo and I have put down on here. So, how many true Gods ARE there, boJ? Care to tell us?

"I have said 'you are gods...'"

"This is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent." (John 17:3)

So, how many true GODS are there?
 
Last edited:

Bonnie

Super Member
It proves nothing. Everyone dies like men. How does that prove that they are human judges? Further, everyone judges. How does judging unjustly prove they are human judges? It doesn't. Therefore, if you believe that dying like men proves they are judges, you are wrong.

So, mortal humans are gods. Got it.
No, you don't "get it." Where did I write that mortal humans are gods? Haven't we said repeatedly on here that they had the lofty TITLE of "gods"--which was given them in Exodus--because of their position and power, but despite their power over the people and their lofty title, they were still human and would die like men?

Where did I say "dying like men" proves they are judges???? It proves they were HUMAN judges.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
yes. Our critics appear to be ignorant of our teachings.


What has this got to do with pre-mortal existence and Ps 82? Nothing. It's clear from the comment made that you guys are clueless about what we believe.

I'll include your quoted text to address it.

Becoming as great as the being who is God is not the same as being a god. You need to disconnect those two ideas from our theology. As I stated before, your definition of what a god is does not appear to be the same as God's definition. God, in Ps 82, addresses wicked beings and says they are gods. That clearly violates your definition of a god. But, since God is saying, it obviously doesn't violate God's definition. Perhaps you should learn from his word instead of trying to make his word fit yours.

This should address all your other posts which I believe try to make becoming like god the same as being a god. That is not what we believe.

Ok. This isn't about being like God, so it is a little different, but it's still referring to growth, not a change in titles. Our scriptures specify what makes a being a god. The essence of that doctrine is found here in D&C 132: 19-20 "...which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end..."

What makes us gods? in a nutshell, having no end, makes us gods. So, it appears that we have always been gods until we do something that damns or stops us from continuing forever. Beings that this happens to would be anyone who isn't married for eternity. In another case, it would be anyone who didn't obtain a body accepting Christ's plan over Lucifers. There may be other "damning" things we might have done along the way that would have ended our "progress" but we don't know about any of those. We are certain that Satan's progress has an end, not in his life, but in is ability to continue the seeds.
No, not ignorant at all. Sometimes we non-Mormons know more of Mormon theology than some Mormons do...like, how HF and HM have spirit children in heaven, not physical children....

And you just shot yourself in the foot, for remember this: "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end..."

SHALL BE gods. That is in the future. NOT "they are gods now" but "shall be gods"...why? "Because they have no end." Well, we humans have an end to our physical lives on earth, right? So we cannot be gods NOW, can we? Just "potential" gods--right?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Again, picking out one verse in a whole chapter hardly does any justice to the context. I fully agree with you, Isaiah 1 is based off of the Psalms, but it is about everyone, not just about rulers and judges. Just like Isaiah 3 is and Just like Isaiah 10 is and just like Psalms 82 is. These Isaiah passages tell us who these gods are. But you don't seem to get that.

Again, Bonnie, for the 10 millionth time (LOL), it is the placement in time that Ps 82 makes it different from Isaiah. In Ps 82, they are not yet men. The events in Ps 82 are pre-mortal events. They happened in heaven. Isaiah's witness is much much later. In fact, it appears in Isaiah 3, it is after the world has ended when that judgment occurs.

I might add that Ps 82 is not just a single event. It is a recurring event and covers the who
nt
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I can't help it if you missed the point. My argument wasn't about shouting for joy. I guess that one went completely over your head. However, you keep insisting that Ps 82 includes widows and orphans and it has neither of those.

If we examine where else sons of God are mentioned in the Bible, let's see how many of them might equate to human judges - evil human judges.
  • Rom 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God - Nope. Not that one
  • Gal 3:26 - For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus - Nope. Not that one
  • 2 Cor 6:18 - For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God - Nope. Not that one
  • John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, - Nope. Not that one
  • Gen 6:2 - That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair. - This one, possible - but who were they?
  • Gal 4:5 - For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God - Nope. Not that one.
  • Job 38:7- when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy - This one, possible
  • Matt 5:9 - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God - Nope. Not that one.
  • Rom 8:19 - For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God - Probably not this one.
  • Deut 32:8 - he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. - This one is under debate - is it gods or sons of God?
  • 1 John 3:2 - Beloved, now are we the sons of God, - Nope. Not that one.
  • 1 John 3:1 - Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: - Nope. Not that one.
  • 1 John 5:12 - Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. - Here's one of the sons of God, but this one doesn't help either.
  • Heb 12:8 - alludes to sons of God - if not partakers of chastisement then we cannot consider ourselves as sons of God
  • Rom 8:16 - The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, - close, could be, but not related
  • Rom 9:8 - This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. - also doesn't help you
  • Job 2:1 (1:6) - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD. - This one, very possible. Here we have the sons of God with Satan all in one group. This one deserves additional comment. What was Satan doing there? Will he die like a man?
  • Eph 1:5 - he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons - Nope. Not this one
  • Matt 5:45 - so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven - Nope. Not this one.
  • Eph 5:1 - Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. - Nope. Not this one.
I'm sure this isn't a complete list. John 10 and Ps 82 are missing, John 10 because Jesus doesn't use the words "sons of God. He only uses the words "I said, Ye are gods". And, Ps 82 because the term is sons of the Most High. Luke 6:35 uses this latter phrase: "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High,"

So, for the most part, these "sons of God" are yet to be made. These cannot possibly be wicked human judges, right?
Then we have two left over, both in Job. Both present these "sons" in council with God, one before the foundation of the world and the second it is just described as "there was a day"

None of these references connect the sons of God or the sons of the Most High with human judges. However, we do see where wicked beings can meet and discuss things with God. Where do you suppose that happens? How many humans appear in that council? I'll tell you, none.
Ps. 82 has the "fatherless." However, I was referring in general to what all of Ps. 82 and Is. 1, 3, and 10 reference.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Bonnie said:
SO--how many true Gods does that make, boJ?

Where do you see an argument about how many true Gods there are?

Are you saying there is more than one true God?

Here is typical Mormon dodging...

Bonnie asked a question to Mormons that she's asked multiple times.

And instead of simply ANSWERING the question, the Mormon plays games and answers with nonsense questions.


Let's try it again:

1) BoJ, "Is there more than one true God?"

[_] Yes

[_] No

(Pick one.)
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Here is typical Mormon dodging...

Bonnie asked a question to Mormons that she's asked multiple times.

And instead of simply ANSWERING the question, the Mormon plays games and answers with nonsense questions.


Let's try it again:

1) BoJ, "Is there more than one true God?"

[_] Yes

[_] No

(Pick one.)
To get out of answering my simple question, no doubt. :)
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
IF we were all ALREADY GODS in the premortal existence, and with HF already, then why was mortal life necessary?
This question, again, shows your lack of understanding about our doctrines. We came here to get a body.
"One of the primary reasons we came to earth was to gain a physical body" - Purpose of Life - churchofjesuschrist.org
"without a body, we could not enjoy a fulness of joy." - same article
Another reason is "And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them" (Abr 3:25)
IF we were all already gods?
As I said before, your definition of a god is not the same as God's definition of a god.

We came here to get something we didn't have before. It should be apparent that even living in the presence of God, people reject Him. One third of the host of heaven rejected Him. Now we are in mortality without memory of our past but given opportunity to work by faith for the promises of, in a nutshell, being like him.

Bonnie. We believe God is a being of flesh and bone, a resurrected being, a spirit embodied in flesh forever, a man of Holiness. Obtaining a body would be a necessary step to draw closer to the kind of being He is. If God where the kind of being you think He is, then there would have been no need to come here.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
"Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God." - Origin of man
Clearly, this doesn't have anything to do with Ps 82. Read your quote carefully, Bonnie. Ps 82 is a snapshot of a particular event. The above quote is talking about the evolution of our being. We physically evolve the same way Jesus did, From spirit, to body, to resurrected body. Once again, you are focusing on a few words, "evolving into a God", instead of the context.

We are sons of God, formed in the image of God and endowed with divine attributes - and just as any infant of earthly parents is capable, in due time, of becoming a man, so also are sons of God capable of becoming even as He is. But the child of the parent is the same kind of being as are the parents.

Evolution, as described above, is not about a being changing from one species into another as is suggested by Dawin's theory. If Joseph Fielding Smith were to match his predecessor, the part that you put in bold should have gone something like this: "by experience through ages and aeons, of learning to be gods". But he didn't. You'll have to take that up with him.

Whatever you image we believe, one has to consider that the above quote indicates that we have existed for ages and aeons. If that is true, then where were we during this council of the gods? If you think those are angeles, you still have to consider where you think we believe we were in the midst of all these events. You don't consider them at all. You argue strictly from whatever you can invent and then base it "loosely" on a handful of quotes where you completely miss the context.

I don't expect you to get it. You probably never will and that, itself is sad. Sorry to say.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Jesus was BOTH 100% God AND 100% man
So? Jesus still died like a man. Obviously, your statement (posted below) is false.
Diving beings do not "die like men."
He could die BECAUSE He was also a mortal man
I guess that's the way all divine beings die like men then.
His human nature died on the cross, but His God nature did NOT
No one is arguing that point. It doesn't change the fact that Jesus died like a man.
"Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up"? And He meant the temple of His body?
No duh. and He will raise up our bodies as well. I'm thinking that all divine beings who die like men die the same way, the "temple of their body".

I'm not sure where you're making any points in your favor.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Could be angels.
They were still sons of God. No matter what else you might think they are, there are two things that stand out here. 1. They were gods, and 2. They were sons of God. Those gods might be angels as well.
As we have stated before on here, "gods" can have several meanings, depending upon context.
Maybe, but sons of God seems to be very specific. That would eliminate idols. It eliminates human judges. In fact, it places them squarely in the same realm of beings as was Christ who is also a son of God.
But "sons' can also be figurative, meaning that they were sons of God by reason that He created them.
But, but, but.... But they can also be sons of God exactly the same way Jesus is a son of God. Is Jesus a son of God because God created Him? Try to connect your own argument. What you said here doesn't make any sense. If Jesus is a son of God, how is that figuratively applied to Him where it would be differently applied to these other sons of God? Any ideas?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
So, there were pre-mortal bad spirit gods? In heaven? Before God laid the foundation of the earth? Who were favoring the wicked and making unjust judgments? There were widows and orphans and poor people in this heavenly realm that were being exploited?
I can't make heads or tails of your series of questions. What is it that you want to know? There was a war in heaven. One third were cast out, so, yes there were both good and bad spirits/angels in heaven who were cast out. I don't know about you, but looking around, we can easily see that good and bad is not black and white. There is a spectrum of good and evil. That was the case there and that is the case now. That same war continues. Can you guess which ones might be considered evil people? If you think it's everyone who isn't a born again Christian, you're wrong.
I have been discussing the topic--where were you?
Then where is the answer to my question?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Where did I even mention the shouting for joy part?
Here:
And YOU addressed things that aren't even in Ps. 82, like the beings that "shouted for joy" at the world's creation
Yes, the "gods" in Ps. 82 CAN be human judges and rulers
Where do you get that idea?
for why would gods in heaven be favoring the wicked and making unjust judgments
That's a good question. But it appears that that's what they were doing in heaven.

Bonnie, Ps 82 occurred in the assembly of El. Any idea where that is? God judged the gods, the one in the assembly of El. That's all in Ps 82:1. In the very next verse, he asks them, the members of the assembly, "How long will you judge unjustly..."

Figure out where the assembly of El is and the rest will fall into place. So, where is it Bonnie?

It's not a matter of "why would gods" do something. It is a blatant statement of fact. That's what they were doing. If I said, the sky is blue, what kind of question is "why would the sky be blue"? Regardless of the mechanics, the sky is still blue. It's a statement of fact.
especially if this Psalm supposedly took place before God laid the foundation of the world? Who would there be to favor and make unjust judgments against?
I've answered this question hundreds of times as well. First of all, we know that there were wicked gods in heaven. So, if they showed impartiality to each other, that would satisfy the issue, correct? Second, we know they were judging. It doesn't matter who. What we do know is that they were judging unjustly. There is no indication of who they were judging. You keep asserting that it was earthly beings, but no such mention is ever made of earthly beings. I suspect they were judging gods, much like humans judge humans.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
You are filtering all of these "sons" verses through aberrant Mormon glasses, instead of taking ALL of what the bible has to say about them, in order to judge aright what all of these verses mean.
No, I'm not. I just looked them all up and listed them. I don't think I missed any. No filtering. It's basically a list of verses that all talk about the same thing. Your job is to show me how any of these relates to human judges. They don't. I don't have to filter any of that to come to that conclusion. Your response is just a cop-out.

Answer the question, Bonnie. Which of these verses indicates that sons of God are human judges?
 
Top