Mormonism is not Biblical.

Theo1689

Well-known member
Once upon a time, about 30 years ago, Mormons tried to convince proselytes that Mormonism was "Biblical". They would try to give Biblical arguments, they had missionaries pass out a tract called "The 17 Points of the One True Church" where they quoted Bible verses to try to support Mormon teachings (such as "baptism for the dead"). Back in the day, I received an unsolicited email from a Mormon who tried to convince me to become Mormon. We struck a good friendship and had email exchanges for over 10 years discussing about every aspect of our respective beliefs. He told me he was convinced that EVERY doctrine Mormons believe was found in the Bible. After 10 years of discussion, he was unable to admit that Mormonism was false, but he was able to admit that not all Mormon doctrines are found in the Bible. Of course, he simply spun that into, "That's why we need modern revelation".


Today, Mormons have pretty much given up trying to argue that Mormonism is Biblical. And I have to thank the posters who participate here, for doing such a wonderful job demonstrating the bankruptcy that is Mormonism.

For instance, we have one Mormon poster her (whose nick is near the end of the alphabet, not mentioning any names), who refuses to respond to any critiques of Mormonism.

For instance, we have another Mormon poster here, who tries to defend all his beliefs with speculation and rationalizations (which he calls "common sense" and "logic").

And we have another Mormon poster here (whose nick reminds one of fruit), who quotes one verse to try to defend a belief, but constantly runs away from 30 other passages which contradict his understanding. He proves that Mormons spend 30x more time rejecting the Bible, than they do believing and accepting it.


One can determine their theology by simply reading and believing the Bible, and accepting what is EXPLICITLY taught therein. That is what Christians do.

Or one can determine their theology by "rationalizations" and "speculations", and bizarre undisprovable beliefs such as "men live on the moon, dressing in the Quaker style". That is what Mormons do.

And they end up with completely DIFFERENT theologies.
That's why Mormons have to attack the Bible, and claim it is "not translated correctly", and "corrupt", and "many plain and precious parts missing", which is yet more speculation with ZERO actual evidence.

Jesus said, "Search the Scriptures".
Jesus did NOT say, "Search your imaginations."
 

brotherofJared

Active member
The scriptures say that in the church there are first apostles, second prophets, etc. If your church does not have prophets and apostles it is not the church that Jesus established and is therefore not Biblical.
 

Magdalena

Active member
The scriptures say that in the church there are first apostles, second prophets, etc. If your church does not have prophets and apostles it is not the church that Jesus established and is therefore not Biblical.
The Bible also talks about female prophets. Where are they in mormonism?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
The scriptures say that in the church there are first apostles, second prophets, etc. If your church does not have prophets and apostles it is not the church that Jesus established and is therefore not Biblical.

We do have prophets and apostles.
Just because you deny it, doesn't change that FACT.

Your church is the one who doen't have (true) prophets and apostles.
See how easy that is?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Today, Mormons have pretty much given up trying to argue that Mormonism is Biblical.
I haven't--and neither you, nor anyone else has answered my challenge---what do you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

They teach exactly what is found in the Biblical NT:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Challenge for this board--what do you find in the Biblical NT, as far as salvational doctrines go--which is not found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Where do we find any specific mention of a female prophet or apostle in the Biblical NT?

1) Why do you LIMIT it to "the Biblical NT", when Magdalena spoke of "the Bible" in general?

2) Why are you ignorant of what the Bible teaches?

3) Why are you unable to do a 30 second Google search, to find the answer to your question?

4) Did Joseph Smith remove Luke 2:36 and Acts 21:9 from your Bible?

5) You don't seem to be very good at this "apologetics" thing.... ;)
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I haven't--and neither you, nor anyone else has answered my challenge---what do you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

They teach exactly what is found in the Biblical NT:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Challenge for this board--what do you find in the Biblical NT, as far as salvational doctrines go--which is not found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Your misinterpretation of James 2:24 (which is about "justification", not "salvation") is in direct contradiction to Eph. 2:8-9, Tit. 3:5, 2 Tim. 1:9, Rom. 4:1-5, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc., ALL of which exclude "works" from the salvation transaction.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Not the living, mortal apostles and prophets--which the NT church did have.

He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God is not the god of the dead, but of the living.

If you deny the Biblical prophets are living, then you reject Jesus.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
1) Why do you LIMIT it to "the Biblical NT", when Magdalena spoke of "the Bible" in general?
I was thinking the NT is what the Christian lives under.

So---what do you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Once upon a time, about 30 years ago, Mormons tried to convince proselytes that Mormonism was "Biblical". They would try to give Biblical arguments, they had missionaries pass out a tract called "The 17 Points of the One True Church" where they quoted Bible verses to try to support Mormon teachings (such as "baptism for the dead"). Back in the day, I received an unsolicited email from a Mormon who tried to convince me to become Mormon. We struck a good friendship and had email exchanges for over 10 years discussing about every aspect of our respective beliefs. He told me he was convinced that EVERY doctrine Mormons believe was found in the Bible. After 10 years of discussion, he was unable to admit that Mormonism was false, but he was able to admit that not all Mormon doctrines are found in the Bible. Of course, he simply spun that into, "That's why we need modern revelation".


Today, Mormons have pretty much given up trying to argue that Mormonism is Biblical. And I have to thank the posters who participate here, for doing such a wonderful job demonstrating the bankruptcy that is Mormonism.

For instance, we have one Mormon poster her (whose nick is near the end of the alphabet, not mentioning any names), who refuses to respond to any critiques of Mormonism.

For instance, we have another Mormon poster here, who tries to defend all his beliefs with speculation and rationalizations (which he calls "common sense" and "logic").

And we have another Mormon poster here (whose nick reminds one of fruit), who quotes one verse to try to defend a belief, but constantly runs away from 30 other passages which contradict his understanding. He proves that Mormons spend 30x more time rejecting the Bible, than they do believing and accepting it.


One can determine their theology by simply reading and believing the Bible, and accepting what is EXPLICITLY taught therein. That is what Christians do.

Or one can determine their theology by "rationalizations" and "speculations", and bizarre undisprovable beliefs such as "men live on the moon, dressing in the Quaker style". That is what Mormons do.

One Mormon who I just interacted with practices two practices which go against proper hermeneutics.

1) When arguing a doctrine, Mormons only cherry-pick the verses they think they can twist to prove their doctrine, instead of what the ENTIRETY of the Bible says about a topic.

For instance, for whether there is only one God:

Mormons: Psa. 82:6, 1 Cor. 8:5
Christians: Deut. 4:35,39, Deut. 32:39, 1 Kings 8:60, Ps. 86:10, Isa. 44:6,8, Isa. 45:5,21,22, Isa. 46:9, Mark 12:32, 1 Cor. 8:4, etc. etc.

Mormons only cite the two, and ignore the rest, apparently thinking that their verses "trump" anything else.

For instance, regarding whether works are "requirement" for salvation:

Mormons: James 2:24
Christians: Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-5, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc. etc.



The second bad practice they use is that they refuse to recognize that a passage might have more than one possible interpretation, and that their interpretation might be incorrect.

For instance:

Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

Mormons quote this verse and DEMAND that it means you have to have living, contemporaneous prophets and apostles, even though the passage says no such thing. On the contrary, the passage says that the church has been BUILT (past tense), with the prophets and apostles as its FOUNDATION (only laid once, at the beginning).
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Where do we find any specific mention of a female prophet or apostle in the Biblical NT?
Don't you know your NT?

Acts 21:

7 We continued our voyage from Tyre and landed at Ptolemais, where we greeted the brothers and sisters and stayed with them for a day. 8 Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven. 9 He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.


Those who prophesy are prophets, are they not (though in this case, prophetesses)?
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
I was thinking the NT is what the Christian lives under.

So---what do you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?
What do we find in the BoM, as far as salvational doctrines go--that cannot be found in the Biblical NT?
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
snip for room to post
Why do you pretend we have not dealt with James 2:24 dozens of times on here? And why do you ignore what the REST of the Bible has to say about how we are saved to eternal life? Like in these verses?

1. And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.” (Genesis 15:6, ESV)
2. “Our God is a God who saves; from the Sovereign LORD comes escape from death.” (Psalm 68:20, ESV)
3. “LORD, you are the God who saves me; day and night I cry out to you.” (Psalm 88:1, NIV)
4. “We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.” (Isaiah 64:6, ESV)
5. “Look, his ego is inflated; he is without integrity. But the righteous one will live by his faith.” (Habakkuk 2:4, HCSB)
6. “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matthew 26:28, NIV)
7. “Jesus said to the woman, ‘Your faith has saved you; go in peace.’” (Luke 7:50, NIV)
8. “Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.” (John 1:12, NIV)
9. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16, NKJV)
10. “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” (John 3:18, NKJV)
11. “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” (John 5:24, ESV)
12. “Jesus answered, ‘The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent’.” (John 6:29, NIV)
13. “Then Jesus declared, ‘I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty’.” (John 6:35, NIV)
14. “He [Jesus] said, ‘It is finished!’” (John 19:30, NKJV)
15. “By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see.” (Acts: 3:16, NIV)
16. “And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:31, ESV)
17. “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: ‘The righteous will live by faith’.” (Romans 1:16-17, NIV)
18. "Even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction." (Romans 3:22, NASB)


demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:24-26, NKJV)
20. "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." (Romans 3:28, NIV)
21. "If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.’" (Romans 4:2-3, NIV)
22. “Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works” (Romans 4:4-6, ESV)
23. "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also" (Romans 4:11, NASB)
24. "So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe." (Romans 4:16, NLT)
25. "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." (Romans 5:1, NKJV)
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Part two of Bible verses that show how we are truly saved:

26. “Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!” (Romans 5:9, NIV)
27. “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:3, NASB)
28. “It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.” (Romans 9:16, NIV)
29. "What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith" (Romans 9:30, NIV)
30. "Just as it is written, ‘Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed’.” (Romans 9:33, NASB)
31. "For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Romans 10:3-4, NASB)
32. "That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." (Romans 10:9-10, NKJV)
33. “For ‘everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved’.” (Romans 10:13, ESV)
34. "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." (Romans 11:6, ESV)
35. "Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified." (Galatians 2:16, NASB)
36. “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” (Galatians 2:21, NASB)
37. “I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?” (Galatians 3:2-3, NIV)
38. "So then, does God supply you with the Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law or by hearing with faith? Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness, then understand that those who have faith are Abraham’s sons. Now the Scripture saw in advance that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and told the good news ahead of time to Abraham, saying, All the nations will be blessed through you. So those who have faith are blessed with Abraham, who had faith."(Galatians 3:5-9, HCSB)
39. “Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us.” (Galatians 3:11-12, NIV)
40. "In order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." (Galatians 3:14, NASB)
41. "But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe." (Galatians 3:22, ESV)
42. “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:24, NKVJ)
43. “In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace.” (Ephesians 1:7, NIV)
. “Even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved.” (Ephesians 2:5, ESV)46. "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, Not a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9, NKJV)
47. "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith." (Philippians 3:9, NASB)
48. “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance.” (Hebrews 11:8, NKJV)
49. “These all died in faith without having received the promises, but they saw them from a distance, greeted them, and confessed that they were foreigners and temporary residents on the earth. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.” (Hebrews 11:13,16, HCSB)
50. “All these were approved through their faith, but they did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, so that they would not be made perfect without us. (Hebrews 11:39-40, HCSB)
51. "yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.“ (1 Timothy 1:16, NASB)
52. “He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.” (2 Timothy 1:9, NIV)
53. “He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5, ESV)
54. “because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.” (Revelation 5:9, NIV)
55. “[Jesus] said to me, ‘It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give to the thirsty from the spring of living water as a gift’.” (Revelation 21:7, HCSB)

Why do you ignore these verses and focus ONLY on James 2:24, as if these other verses do not exist? Have you forgotten what ELSE James says, in his epistle? He said if we keep the whole law by stumble in one point, we are guilty of ALL of it.

So, how is that working out for you, dberrie? Do you ever "stumble"? Do you still sin? Do you do ALL that you can do, so that grace can then start to kick in? How do you know when you really HAVE extended your best efforts?

 

organgrinder

Active member
We do have prophets and apostles.
Just because you deny it, doesn't change that FACT.

Your church is the one who doen't have (true) prophets and apostles.
See how easy that is?
Might remind the Mormon of acts 21:9 which says:

On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.
NKJV
Looks like one who prophesies is a prophet.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Part two of Bible verses that show how we are truly saved:



Why do you ignore these verses and focus ONLY on James 2:24, as if these other verses do not exist? Have you forgotten what ELSE James says, in his epistle? He said if we keep the whole law by stumble in one point, we are guilty of ALL of it.

So, how is that working out for you, dberrie? Do you ever "stumble"? Do you still sin? Do you do ALL that you can do, so that grace can then start to kick in? How do you know when you really HAVE extended your best efforts?

 

The Prophet

Member
I haven't--and neither you, nor anyone else has answered my challenge---what do you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

They teach exactly what is found in the Biblical NT:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Challenge for this board--what do you find in the Biblical NT, as far as salvational doctrines go--which is not found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I was thinking the NT is what the Christian lives under.
You think the OT teaches differently than the NT?!

So---what do you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

Salvation is by grace, through faith, NOT BY WORKS (Eph. 2:8-9, Tit. 3:5, 2 Tim. 1:9, Rom. 4:1-5, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc. etc.

Mormons deny this, and ignore these passages, and run away to a misinterpretation of James 2, claiming on must "be obedient" and "do works" and "endure to the end" and "be baptized" all these other requirements to be saved.
 
Top