Mormons hope to become Gods and Create Planets to Rule

Then why even have them, if the teachings in them do not accurately reflect what your church teaches?
The Church is a Living Church. As understanding evolves, former teachings of past leaders go by the wayside.
I misrepresented nothing. I mentioned the YWM, vol. 2, lesson 29, that Janice put down on here.
Ok. That's fair. I apologize.
Except these often contradict...even in your church's Scriptures, as has been shown on here many times.
Right. So if something contradicts - if it doesn't make sense in our mind or heart, and not in line with the scriptures, and it presents no fruit of the Spirit then we can't claim that we've received revelation on it - and it's likely whatever that uncertain topic is, probably isn't pertinent to our salvation.
I don't know if your church removed that manual or not, from its website, or just buried it in it, making it very difficult to find.
If it's being taught in church (presently) you'll find it quite easily.
I thought I made that clear in my other post.
Sorry, I didn't see your other posts. My bad.
The only purpose I can think of is because either your church is ashamed of the men-becoming-gods-and-creating-worlds doctrine, or it isn't something it wants investigators to find, when perusing your church's website, to see what it is all about, and to see if some of the doctrines they have heard about are really taught in your church--maybe for fear that they will reject your church and not want to join.
Granted, there are principles that are milk before meat. However, given that the Church is focused on conversion, it really doesn't make much sense to swindle people into membership. Having said that, there are things I think that are important to understand, such as reading the Book of Mormon (aka. "hearing the message"), before applying our own logic and reasoning.

All our teachings are quite open, you just need to know where to look:
Just fyi:
Most everything is under Gospel topics: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics?lang=eng
Including our belief of becoming like God: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

If you can't find it on the website, chances are it's not a big part of our beliefs.
 
So your church publishes information in their manuals contradictory to what Mormonism teaches?
In some cases yes. Brigham Young could be bloviating before the Proclamation of 1865 was established, meaning, he could be teaching things not doctrinal, and those could have been carried down by culture and tradition. Which might have been appropriate for the audience at the time, but doesn't apply to us.
Why would you choose to misrepresent your own beliefs?
I don't misrepresent my own beliefs. I do have beliefs that align with scripture (to my knowledge), but I am quite non-orthodox in comparison to my church as a whole.
So you CLAIM.
But regardless of how you determine "truth", once you do so, you publish it in manuals. It's not that hard.
And the Church's collective understanding changes over time.

For the same reason other cults (eg. JW's) do it.
Because they're embarrassed about what they used to teach, and want it to go away, without having to admit any "error".
I can understand what you'd think that. But I don't agree.
 
And the Church's collective understanding changes over time.

You might even say that there creeds are an abomination, and their professors are all corrupt! ;)

Or perhaps you might even say:

Eph. 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
 
Any ex-Mormon who exposes certain teachings is said to be "walking in darkness, never understood the gospel, or is confused."
Sorry that that description bothers you, but if the shoe fits...

You, along with our other critics, continue to produce themes that we don't believe and have never believed. The theme of this thread claims that we believe the word of God from the Bible concerning the promises of being joint-heirs with Christ (something you all downplay) and sharing the throne WITH Christ, which we do. This is what the Bible teaches. We happen to believe it. We might not understand it completely. We don't know how God made the worlds, we just know that he did and we believe that whatever God did, He will empower us to do the same in whatever way he made them. As far as making "other spirits", well, there's nothing about that in the Bible except that we know that God is the Father of our spirits, of all spirits. We don't know how He did that either, but we believe that we will be able to do it the exact same way he did it. Perhaps we will not be able to do any of it except WITH Christ, but we believe that we will be able to. With God, nothing is impossible, right?

So, I get a couple of things from this exchange.

1. We believe the Bible and you all don't
2. That you all downplay the power of God
3. We are equally ignorant of the details. We accept what the Bible teaches and fill in the blanks based on what we know and it appears that we know a lot more than you all do.
 
Sorry that that description bothers you, but if the shoe fits...

You, along with our other critics, continue to produce themes that we don't believe and have never believed. The theme of this thread claims that we believe the word of God from the Bible concerning the promises of being joint-heirs with Christ (something you all downplay) and sharing the throne WITH Christ, which we do. This is what the Bible teaches. We happen to believe it. We might not understand it completely. We don't know how God made the worlds, we just know that he did and we believe that whatever God did, He will empower us to do the same in whatever way he made them. As far as making "other spirits", well, there's nothing about that in the Bible except that we know that God is the Father of our spirits, of all spirits. We don't know how He did that either, but we believe that we will be able to do it the exact same way he did it. Perhaps we will not be able to do any of it except WITH Christ, but we believe that we will be able to. With God, nothing is impossible, right?

So, I get a couple of things from this exchange.

1. We believe the Bible and you all don't
2. That you all downplay the power of God
3. We are equally ignorant of the details. We accept what the Bible teaches and fill in the blanks based on what we know and it appears that we know a lot more than you all do.
Christians are joint heirs with Christ and yes, we will share in the throne of God. "BUT" we are adopted heirs and we sure are not gods, nor are we trying to attain godhood. (Galatians 4:4-5). Secondly, you stated "We don't know how God made the worlds etc."

How then do you know that God lives on the planet Kolob? Where is that in the Bible? And regarding the Bible you teach "so far as it's translated correctly." So how do you determine what is translated right or wrongly? Is the whole BoM translated correctly, yes or no?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 
You might even say that there creeds are an abomination, and their professors are all corrupt! ;)

Or perhaps you might even say:

Eph. 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Lol! Maybe so.
 
Please provide working links to this quote, Richard:

"What blessings await those who live worthy of exaltation? (Godhood, having all things subject to them, having angels subject to them, having all power, living with Jesus.) Point out that just as Jesus Christ was promised all that the Father has, we can also receive all power and dominion, becoming creators of other spirits and other worlds."

I see it only at Life After Ministry. Mormon missionaries didn't tell me about it.
It's not there anymore. It appears to only be on anti-Mormon websites. The section I emphasized in bold appears to be speculative.

1. There is an ongoing debate amongst scholars and members of the church about the scripture's references to intelligence and spirits. Joseph Smith used them both, sometimes synonymously. The leaders have not established doctrine concerning it and they don't appear to be interested in clearing up the question because, apparently, God hasn't found a need to clear it up. It's not a pressing issue. We'll find out when we get there, but the foregoing portion of the quote is still correct and doctrine. Whatever God is doing, we'll be able to do as well. If he creates other spirits, we'll create other spirits in the same way but we are certain that we have to be like him to do it.

2. We have no details on how other worlds are created. We have been taught, and understand, that God the Father, a resurrected and embodied being commissioned Christ and Michael who actually are the beings who created the earth. God spoke and Christ carried out the word. I personally believe that Michael, who we learned was Adam, is simply a representation of all of God's children. If this is the case, then it's not likely that any of us will create worlds ourselves after we are resurrected.

IOW, the above statement is based on speculation about how the person being quoted thought the next life will be. The doctrine is not in the details. The person stated the doctrine and then extended it based on how he thought it might be.
 
The Church is a Living Church. As understanding evolves, former teachings of past leaders go by the wayside.
I agree. It is a living church, but that doesn't mean that the teachings of past leaders are wrong and tossed aside. The doctrine doesn't change.
 
Christians are joint heirs with Christ and yes, we will share in the throne of God. "BUT" we are adopted heirs and we sure are not gods,
Thus proving my point. You all claim it and then deny it.

There is no such term in the scriptures. You made up "adopted heirs" which is a different term from joint-heirs. Joint heirs are equal in all things.
How then do you know that God lives on the planet Kolob?
Kolob isn't a planet and we've never stated that's where God lived. But, as a being of flesh and bone, he must live somewhere. Where exactly, is not known. The closest we can get is that it must be near Kolob, which is a star, not a planet.
And regarding the Bible you teach "so far as it's translated correctly." So how do you determine what is translated right or wrongly?
Where it correlates with the Book of Mormon's doctrines, it is translated correctly. The Book of Mormon would be the standard here since it has had less interpretation and manipulation than the Bible and since it was translated by a prophet called of God and not voted on by a bunch of men trying to push an agenda.
 
There is no such term in the scriptures. You made up "adopted heirs" which is a different term from joint-heirs. Joint heirs are equal in all things.

On what basis do you falsely claim that "συγκηρονομοι" ("fellow heirs") allegedly means, "equal in all things"?

Kolob isn't a planet and we've never stated that's where God lived. But, as a being of flesh and bone, he must live somewhere. Where exactly, is not known. The closest we can get is that it must be near Kolob, which is a star, not a planet.

You might want to try reading Abraham 3.
It teaches that God lives near the star Kolob.
And considering that Brigham believed people lived on the Sun, there's no reason to think God couldn't live on Kolob.

Where it correlates with the Book of Mormon's doctrines, it is translated correctly.

So the Book of Mormon cannot be questioned, but the Bible is only correct when it agrees with the Book of Mormon? Sorry, but that is NOT how one does truth.

The Book of Mormon would be the standard here since it has had less interpretation

Sorry, but clarity is not the same as truth and accuracy.
And before you claim the BoM has "less interpretation", you might want to consult with:

- the FLDS
- the RLDS (now Comm. of Christ);
- the United Apostolic Brethren;
- Kingston Clan;
- Bountiful Clan;
- and hundreds of other Mormon splinter sects.

and manipulation than the Bible

You are very misinformed.

and since it was translated by a prophet called of God

Of course, there is no reason to believe he was "a prophet called of God", and there is no way to test his translation, since the language doesn't exist, and neither do the "gold plates".

and not voted on by a bunch of men trying to push an agenda.

You could not be more misinformed.
 
Please provide working links to this quote, Richard:

"What blessings await those who live worthy of exaltation? (Godhood, having all things subject to them, having angels subject to them, having all power, living with Jesus.) Point out that just as Jesus Christ was promised all that the Father has, we can also receive all power and dominion, becoming creators of other spirits and other worlds."

I see it only at Life After Ministry. Mormon missionaries didn't tell me about it.

Janice, what are you going to do with this Biblical scripture...???

Hebrews 1:14

Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?
 
So are beliefs of Mormons determined by manuals? No. Why would you choose to misrepresent our beliefs?
What is it that y'all don't understand of how we determine truth: Scripture, Spirit, Priesthood all aligned. It's not that hard.
If the teachings in the manuals are true, why would the Church remove them, never to be seen again? What purpose does that serve?
I haven't seen any of Bonnie's posts that misrepresent your church's teachings. Can you give me a link? Thanks.
 
So are beliefs of Mormons determined by manuals? No. Why would you choose to misrepresent our beliefs?
What is it that y'all don't understand of how we determine truth: Scripture, Spirit, Priesthood all aligned. It's not that hard.
If the teachings in the manuals are true, why would the Church remove them, never to be seen again? What purpose does that serve?
Do manuals contain false teachings? Your friend Richard says that the teaching about planets is still taught in the temples. This isn't about how you determine truth. But I know for a fact that temple Mormons are privy to secret teachings that unworthy Mormons aren't supposed to know.
 
Do manuals contain false teachings? Your friend Richard says that the teaching about planets is still taught in the temples. This isn't about how you determine truth.
I guess that's for Richard to defend, then.
But I know for a fact that temple Mormons are privy to secret teachings that unworthy Mormons aren't supposed to know.
Not necessarily.
Why is an "unworthy Mormon" unworthy?
 
I don't mind your not telling us why the Mormon holy ghost is a god who can't live in heaven. I even know why you hate my posts and you may prove to everyone that Young Women Manual 2 and Achieving a Celestial Marriage are still online. Or you may quote:

"What blessings await those who live worthy of exaltation? (Godhood, having all things subject to them, having angels subject to them, having all power, living with Jesus.) Point out that just as Jesus Christ was promised all that the Father has, we can also receive all power and dominion, becoming creators of other spirits and other worlds."

with a LINK to that source. Do you know what a link is?
I found it.... ETERNAL MARRIAGE STUDENT MANUAL... check out Marriage for Eternity.... its found in the LDS.org site...

Elder Bruce R. McConkie​

“If righteous men have power through the gospel and its crowning ordinance of celestial marriage to become kings and priests to rule in exaltation forever, it follows that the women by their side (without whom they cannot attain exaltation) will be queens and priestesses. (Rev. 1:6; 5:10.) Exaltation grows out of the eternal union of a man and his wife. Of those whose marriage endures in eternity, the Lord says, ‘Then shall they be gods’ (D&C 132:20); that is, each of them, the man and the woman, will be a god. As such they will rule over their dominions forever” (Mormon Doctrine, 613).
 
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