Mormons vs Mormonism

Elijah the Tishbite said:
Why did Joseph Smith teach God was not God from Eternity?
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He did teach that....Moroni 8:18. It says God is "unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity." Joseph Smith, however, taught, "We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and take away the veil so that you may see."
 
Richard7 said:
He did teach that....Moroni 8:18. It says God is "unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity." Joseph Smith, however, taught, "We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and take away the veil so that you may see."
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Yes he did and the Book of Mormon disagrees with him on a plethora of occasions​
 
Richard7 said:
Nope not once and you have not proved it by saying it disagrees with him.... thx but all you done is shown us your speculations..
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Below is two verses that tell all three members of the Godhead have been God from eternity

Alma 11:
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Doctrine and Covenants 20 :

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen
 
Joseph Smith Translation, Hebrews 7:3.
All those who receive this priesthood can become like the Son of God.
3 For this Melchizedek was ordained a priest after the order of the Son of God, which order was without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life.
 
Elijah the Tishbite said:
Below is two verses that tell all three members of the Godhead have been God from eternity

Alma 11:
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Doctrine and Covenants 20 :

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen
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Thank you, we love that you post our doctrine and allow others to see the truth.... all the above is true and we teach it as doctrine.
 
Elijah the Tishbite said:
So you disagree with Joseph Smith who said God is not God from Eternity​
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The Book of Mormon never says God was once a mortal, and, in fact, it teaches that God was always God. Take for instance Moroni 8:18. It says God is "unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity." Joseph Smith, however, taught, "We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and take away the veil so that you may see."[1]

The term "unchangeable God" is not referencing a physical state. This can be shown from similar terms from the Bible about Jesus. Jesus is referred to as "the same yesterday, today, and forever" (Hebrews 13:8). Yet we learn from the scriptures that Jesus “increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man”(Luke 2:52) here is certainly a change in condition; here is succession of time with God, a before and after; here is being and becoming; for whereas, He was a spirit, He became man; and in becoming man, He passed through all the phases in life from infancy to manhood. It is significant also that it was not until Jesus had arisen from the tomb and stood in the presence of His disciples, glorified personage, body and spirit united, that He exclaimed, “all power is given unto Me in heaven and earth.” (Matthew 28:18) If “given”, there must have been a time when He did not possess all power in heaven and in earth; and hence, a change from possessing some power to the condition of possessing “all power”. So this term is not meant to mean His physical condition.

In context, no scripture tells us of God's physical change, but actually tells us that one can be eternal, unchanging, the same yesterday, today and forever, and still go through physical changes. Joseph however was contending against this false interpretation of scripture and was teaching the saints appropriately. In his lecture, he was talking about God passing through physical changes, even as Christ did, and as we must.

Source FairMormon
 
Richard7 said:
The Book of Mormon never says God was once a mortal, and, in fact, it teaches that God was always God. Take for instance Moroni 8:18. It says God is "unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity." Joseph Smith, however, taught, "We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and take away the veil so that you may see."[1]

The term "unchangeable God" is not referencing a physical state. This can be shown from similar terms from the Bible about Jesus. Jesus is referred to as "the same yesterday, today, and forever" (Hebrews 13:8). Yet we learn from the scriptures that Jesus “increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man”(Luke 2:52) here is certainly a change in condition; here is succession of time with God, a before and after; here is being and becoming; for whereas, He was a spirit, He became man; and in becoming man, He passed through all the phases in life from infancy to manhood. It is significant also that it was not until Jesus had arisen from the tomb and stood in the presence of His disciples, glorified personage, body and spirit united, that He exclaimed, “all power is given unto Me in heaven and earth.” (Matthew 28:18) If “given”, there must have been a time when He did not possess all power in heaven and in earth; and hence, a change from possessing some power to the condition of possessing “all power”. So this term is not meant to mean His physical condition.

In context, no scripture tells us of God's physical change, but actually tells us that one can be eternal, unchanging, the same yesterday, today and forever, and still go through physical changes. Joseph however was contending against this false interpretation of scripture and was teaching the saints appropriately. In his lecture, he was talking about God passing through physical changes, even as Christ did, and as we must.

Source FairMormon
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Jesus did not advance when he became man but since he was God and needed no advancement ​


Jesus laid aside his equality, wealth, Joy and Glory with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and humbled himself to the form of a servant .

”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” 2 Cor. 8:9

Hebrews 12

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.

John 17

“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Thank you, Jesus, for coming down from your throne in heaven where you were the Almighty God, “EL SHADDAI”, The Great I AM creator of all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, and principalities and powers, the galaxy, constellations, the cosmos everything created you created . You were rich yet you became poor. You were Almighty yet you emptied yourself and became a humble servant, you exchanged joy for sorrow , sorrow by dying a shameful death on a cross as a criminal even thou you had no sin , Jesus you laid aside your Glory with God the Father and Holy Spirit . Jesus you should have been born as a King in an opulent palace, instead of a servant in a stable in a manager. Thank you, Jesus for your sacrifice

Luke 2:51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

It's interesting how Jesus, The Almighty God, the creator of everything that exist both in heaven and earth, humbled himself. He humbled himself to a point where he was obedient to Mary and Joseph, one of the poorest couples in the world. A world that he created. He washed the feet of the disciples something done by gentile slaves. Jewish slaves were exempt from this humble service. Jesus was also a “Nazarene” which carries with it an allusion to those prophecies which speak of Christ as “despised of men” (Isa. 53:3)
 
Elijah the Tishbite said:
Jesus did not advance when he became man but since he was God and needed no advancement ​


Jesus laid aside his equality, wealth, Joy and Glory with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and humbled himself to the form of a servant .

”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” 2 Cor. 8:9

Hebrews 12

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.

John 17

“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Thank you, Jesus, for coming down from your throne in heaven where you were the Almighty God, “EL SHADDAI”, The Great I AM creator of all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, and principalities and powers, the galaxy, constellations, the cosmos everything created you created . You were rich yet you became poor. You were Almighty yet you emptied yourself and became a humble servant, you exchanged joy for sorrow , sorrow by dying a shameful death on a cross as a criminal even thou you had no sin , Jesus you laid aside your Glory with God the Father and Holy Spirit . Jesus you should have been born as a King in an opulent palace, instead of a servant in a stable in a manager. Thank you, Jesus for your sacrifice

Luke 2:51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

It's interesting how Jesus, The Almighty God, the creator of everything that exist both in heaven and earth, humbled himself. He humbled himself to a point where he was obedient to Mary and Joseph, one of the poorest couples in the world. A world that he created. He washed the feet of the disciples something done by gentile slaves. Jewish slaves were exempt from this humble service. Jesus was also a “Nazarene” which carries with it an allusion to those prophecies which speak of Christ as “despised of men” (Isa. 53:3)
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Thx, appreciate the time you took to give us your take... thx again.
 
Elijah the Tishbite said:
Does that mean you think Jesus didn't advance as a man as the Scriptures I posted teach?​
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I definitely agree that Jesus had to advance as a human and God heritage.... like all of us have to advance line upon line... I also think he was directly taught by ministering angels...messengers from God...just like JS was taught by messengers from God...
 
Richard7 said:
I definitely agree that Jesus had to advance as a human and God heritage.... like all of us have to advance line upon line... I also think he was directly taught by ministering angels...messengers from God...just like JS was taught by messengers from God...
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the angels must have been demon angels that taught Joseph Smith everything wrong ​
 
Elijah the Tishbite said:
the angels must have been demon angels that taught Joseph Smith everything wrong ​
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Well that is close, but it must have been demons who corrupted part of the Bible... hmmm... think on that... man translated the Hebrew to Greek and then man finalized it by translating it to english.. but of course the Book of Mormon was only translated once, hence the most perfect book ever written... hmm
 
Richard7 said:
Well that is close, but it must have been demons who corrupted part of the Bible... hmmm... think on that... man translated the Hebrew to Greek and then man finalized it by translating it to english.. but of course the Book of Mormon was only translated once, hence the most perfect book ever written... hmm
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What part of the Bible is corrupted? ​
 
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