Oh he doesn't have to worry about tempting RCs, he has them breaking commandments by the false teachings of their leaders.
Mother Mary
- Thread starter dingoling.
- Start date
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Indeed, humans will not be God.
Being omniscient means being all-knowing.
My question is--why would one have to be all knowing in order to hear a finite number of prayers in heaven where the limitations of the flesh do not exist? I agree that even in heaven humans cannot be all-knowing. But those asking the saints to pray for them are a finite number, not an infinite number. If an infinite number, the omniscient argument would hold.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Only Protestant fundamentalists would create problems where there are none.
If they would stop overthinking things...
Not everything in the Christian Faith has to be complicated.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
If this isn't a textbook example of a non-sequitur, I don't know what is.
I ask the saints to pray for me on occasion---and I never never believed that the saints are omniscient, or that they must be omniscient in order to hear my prayers and present them to God.
What does that have to do with omniscience?
I know what it means. Seriously how does Mary answer all those prayers if she doesn't know what they are?
Google says there are 1.3 billion RCs in the world. Assume they are evenly spread. And that they only pray to Mary for 1 minute a day.
That's 1.3E9/(24hrs*60min.per.hr) = 903,000 prayers per minute. Each and every day. All day. Year in and year out.
And she has to relay these to Jesus, and yank RC souls out of Purgatory, as well as making special appearances on Earth! ?
--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
The RCC Mary is being run ragged. Not only does she have to relay them to Mary, she has to plead for each and every individual case.
Thus, you are praying to them - only God is the proper recipient of prayer.
In order to hear even silent prayers fully knowing the heart is required.
See post 94.
Bonnie
Super Member
I should think it would be obvious, what praying to saints dead in the Lord has to do with "omniscience."
Bonnie
Super Member
It is the Catholic that has problems, not us.
If Catholics would just stop UNderthinking things...
it isn't, but the RCC has robbed its membership of the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. It is so simple--pray as our Lord Jesus directed us to pray--to Him or His Father, through Him, thus cutting out the "middle-saint." It is the HS who perfects our prayers when we don't know how to pray as we ought--not Mary of some other saint dead in the Lord.
As I see it, in the RCC system, people pray to their Mary, and she passes it on to their Jesus, who, being an obedient son, does whatever his mommy asks.
So, Farmer Gray is praying to Mary for rain for his crops. In the same town, BethAnn is praying to Mary for sunshine for her vacation. Conflict of interest, anyone? Without omniscience - knowing all factors and details, and how they work together - HOW can Mary decide what is best? She cannot. (Poor lady is heading for a nervous breakdown!)
--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
What is it with you fundamentalists? If I ask you to pray for me, I am not praying to you am I? Yet if I ask the saints to pray for me, all of a sudden I am praying to them.
Says who? Cannot God allow the saints to hear silent prayer?
Bonnie
Super Member
What is with you Catholics?? You are alive upon the earth as we are. The dead in Christ are not. We KNOW those alive upon the earth can hear/ read our requests to pray FOR them, which is Biblical. Praying to the dead in Christ is not.
I have seen plenty of Marian prayers that were far from being intersessor prayers--they were prayers for help and salvation, to appease her Son's wrath, etc.
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SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
The saints in heaven would have to be omnipresent in order to hear our prayers to them. We know only God is omnipresent. Its the Angels job in heaven is to present those vails and bring them into the throne room. Jesus then answers those prayers. The saints in heaven have no idea what those prayers are.
Revelation 8:3-4
And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.
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pilgrim
Well-known member
Like this:
Rev 8:3
Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God’s people, on the golden altar in front of the throne.
?
Nondenom40
Well-known member
Catholics create doctrine from a snippet of apocalyptic literature ignoring the 99.9% of the rest of the bible. Way to go. Thats how false doctrine is born.
pilgrim
Well-known member
There you go! Cut this one out of Scripture. Maybe it got in by mistake.
Bonnie
Super Member
Or maybe it is figurative language not meant to be taken literally--75% of the imagery in Revelation comes from the OT. And in the L o M, incense represented the prayers of the people going up to God, if I remember correctly.
Or do Catholics pray to angels to take their prayers to God?
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pilgrim
Well-known member
It says that the incense was offered up along with the prayers.