What is it with you heretics? Praying for someone does not mean praying to someone.
Mother Mary
- Thread starter dingoling.
- Start date
Seems like RCs pray to anyone or anything BUT God!
Bonnie
Super Member
So? That imagery was still based on the OT.
Now, do Roman Catholics pray to angels? Yes or no?
pilgrim
Well-known member
If the prayers go directly to God, then how does the angel end up them?
Bonnie
Super Member
You did not answer my question: do Catholics pray to angels?
pilgrim
Well-known member
Yes, and you should too.
Matthew 18:10
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.
What better prayer partner than the one God gave you - your guardian angel.
Points against praying to Mary or any other saint.
1. God is clear do not contact the dead (no word games). The fact that RCs pray to the dead could explain why so many I know including family members think it is okay to go to mediums etc.
2. Jesus taught us how to pray and the instructions were clear. Pray to our heavenly father. He does't say pray to someone who has died.
luke 11, matt 6
He said to them, “When you pray, say:
“‘Father,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.
3. There are several prayers of the apostles recorded and none of them are to the dead, even to the dead Mary after she died. They only prayed to the Lord.
4. The apostles taught the living could intercede for us and they NEVER add pray to the dead to intercede. Not once. Even if we ask a living person to pray with us, we are both praying to God.
5. Phil 4:
4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
The point here is the Lord is near, He is not distant. He wants to take away our fears and give us peace. Make your request to God.
5. Why would you not go to God directly as he wants us to pray to Him?
6. 1 John 5
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
There are more verses on prayer BUT nowhere do any of them say to pray to a person who is dead.
1. God is clear do not contact the dead (no word games). The fact that RCs pray to the dead could explain why so many I know including family members think it is okay to go to mediums etc.
2. Jesus taught us how to pray and the instructions were clear. Pray to our heavenly father. He does't say pray to someone who has died.
luke 11, matt 6
He said to them, “When you pray, say:
“‘Father,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.
3. There are several prayers of the apostles recorded and none of them are to the dead, even to the dead Mary after she died. They only prayed to the Lord.
4. The apostles taught the living could intercede for us and they NEVER add pray to the dead to intercede. Not once. Even if we ask a living person to pray with us, we are both praying to God.
5. Phil 4:
4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
The point here is the Lord is near, He is not distant. He wants to take away our fears and give us peace. Make your request to God.
5. Why would you not go to God directly as he wants us to pray to Him?
6. 1 John 5
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
There are more verses on prayer BUT nowhere do any of them say to pray to a person who is dead.
Already addressed in the link I provided. Try reading it.
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
Whats your point? Its the angel not the saints in heaven that are bringing our earthly prayers into the throne room. Our prayers rise up as a sweet incense into heaven. Its the Angels job to collect them and present them to the Lord. The saints in heaven have no idea what those prayers are.
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
Wrong. Its idolatry. Anyone who talks with their guardian angel is really speaking to a demonic entity. Angels harken only to the voice of God and his Word.
Yes. There are several prayers for children to pray to their guardian angel.
--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
I find Jesus' prayers on the night He was betrayed - He knew what was going to happen - quite telling:
At the Last Supper, He prayed
Joh 17:1 [CPDV] Jesus said these things, and then, lifting up his eyes toward heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has arrived: glorify your Son, so that your Son may glorify you"
Then in Gethsemane, He prays:
Mat 26:39 [CPDV] And continuing on a little further, he fell prostrate on his face, praying and saying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this chalice pass away from me. Yet truly, let it not be as I will, but as you will”
and
Mat 26:42 [CPDV] Again, a second time, he went and prayed, saying, “My Father, if this chalice cannot pass away, unless I drink it, let your will be done.”
Finally, on the cross, He prayed,
Luk 23:34 [CPDV] “Father, forgive them. For they know not what they do.”
Who but Satan and his minions would want people to pray to anyone or anything other than God? And who but Satan and his minions would say that praying to anyone other than God is OK?
--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
You cite a verse that refutes your own argument.
Clearly saints are offering prayers to God--that is in the vision. The saints are praying to God.
Who do you think the saints are praying TO if not Jesus?
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Are not what? Alive on earth? So? What matters is that they are still united to the Body of Christ. The basis of their ability to pray for us is not their LOCATION, but their unity with the Body of Christ.
Why? Location? That is your argument? The dead in Christ cannot hear our prayers--because they are in heaven, not earth? What kind of argument is that? What does location have to do with anything?
Well, Bonnie, Jesus is the way to the Father. Jesus appeases the Father's wrath. Jesus the mediator between God and man.
Mary/The Church is the mediator between Jesus and man. Jesus is the way to the Father, Mary/the Church, the way to Jesus. Note, Jesus is not visibly present in the world. His presence is made visible through the ministry of the Church, hence why I say the Church is the way to Jesus. You locate the Church, you locate Christ.
I'm really sorry that you think this. ?
Alas that Roman Catholics put their trust in an organization - trust that would be better placed in God's Word.
Rom 8:26 [CPDV] And similarly, the Spirit [of God] also helps our weakness. For we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself asks on our behalf with ineffable sighing.
The "prayer partner" God gives us is He, Himself.
Nondenom40
Well-known member
Despite the fact that sentence occurs nowhere in the bible you'd rather swap God for an angel? If theres no better prayer partner than your angel and you two are so tight, whats his name? And if prayer is a two way street, what prayers does your angel answer?
leonard03782
Well-known member
The problem is that rc's let someone else do the thinking for them. If I had a choice, I would overthink something than let someone else do it for me.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
I see.
So you would rather overthink something, coming to the wrong conclusion as a result, then accept the teaching authority of the Church.
leonard03782
Well-known member
Since you twist the words of the Scriptures to say what you want them to mean, it comes as surprise to me that you will twist my words to make them mean what you want.