"must" "certainly "without" "all" "doubt"

dberrie2020

Well-known member
"Good works must certainly and without all doubt follow a true faith (provided only it not be a dead but a living faith), as fruits of a good tree" (Formula of Concord 4.A.1)

You appear to know the English at some level. Take some time and use Google (or whatever) to look up the words "must" "certainly "without" "all" "doubt"


So--could the Lutherans explain why "good works" --"must" "certainly "without" "all" "doubt"--follow a "true faith"?

What will happen, or be the result-- if those works don't follow? IOW--one has already obtained salvation at the point before works. What happens to that salvation if the works don't appear?

There are two things to consider here:

1) Lutherans define this "true faith"--as a faith without works in obtaining salvation, IE--"Good works must certainly and without all doubt follow a true faith"

"follow"--yes--but not be a part of the faith in obtaining salvation. Salvation comes through a faith without works in Lutheran theology.

2) If works have nothing to do with obtaining salvation--then how can Lutherans then redact after salvation is obtained--and use works as a standard of whether one was ever saved? (if that is the intent)

Lutherans--could you explain that for us?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
So--could the Lutherans explain why "good works" --"must" "certainly "without" "all" "doubt"--follow a "true faith"?

What will happen, or be the result-- if those works don't follow? IOW--one has already obtained salvation at the point before works. What happens to that salvation if the works don't appear?

There are two things to consider here:

1) Lutherans define this "true faith"--as a faith without works in obtaining salvation, IE--"Good works must certainly and without all doubt follow a true faith"

"follow"--yes--but not be a part of the faith in obtaining salvation. Salvation comes through a faith without works in Lutheran theology.

2) If works have nothing to do with obtaining salvation--then how can Lutherans then redact after salvation is obtained--and use works as a standard of whether one was ever saved? (if that is the intent)

Lutherans--could you explain that for us?

Bump for Lutherans--and two toed sloths
 

BJ Bear

Active member
So--could the Lutherans explain why "good works" --"must" "certainly "without" "all" "doubt"--follow a "true faith"?

What will happen, or be the result-- if those works don't follow? IOW--one has already obtained salvation at the point before works. What happens to that salvation if the works don't appear?

There are two things to consider here:

1) Lutherans define this "true faith"--as a faith without works in obtaining salvation, IE--"Good works must certainly and without all doubt follow a true faith"

"follow"--yes--but not be a part of the faith in obtaining salvation. Salvation comes through a faith without works in Lutheran theology.

2) If works have nothing to do with obtaining salvation--then how can Lutherans then redact after salvation is obtained--and use works as a standard of whether one was ever saved? (if that is the intent)

Lutherans--could you explain that for us?
The immediately following paragraph makes it plain that we do not, "use works as a standard of whether one was even saved," and why. It is a matter of what scripture says rather than a redaction. We are created in Christ Jesus to do good works, Eph 2.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
The immediately following paragraph makes it plain that we do not, "use works as a standard of whether one was even saved," and why. It is a matter of what scripture says rather than a redaction. We are created in Christ Jesus to do good works, Eph 2.

Created in Christ Jesus to do good works--and have a theology which excludes all works in obtaining salvation? That's quite an anomaly.

So--if the Lutherans don't use works as a standard of whether one is saved--then why the article here?

"Good works must certainly and without all doubt follow a true faith (provided only it not be a dead but a living faith), as fruits of a good tree" (Formula of Concord 4.A.1)

Especially considering the Biblical witness:

Matthew 7:19---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
 
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