Must one believe to be saved ?

brightfame52

Well-known member
Im going to introduce an article that is written very well and explains what it means to believe and be saved. Most have been deceived to think that believing in Christ or the Gospel is something men must do to get saved, that is error, and promotes salvation by works, the work of the sinner. Here is what I believe is the correct understanding of believe and be saved:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16

Must One Believe to "Be Saved?"​

In a word, YES, but not for the reasons most people think. However, those who believe in what is called High Calvinism or Unconditional Election and Predestination or Particular Redemption such as the Primitive Baptists, some times say, No, you don't have to believe in order to be saved. This difficulty arises from a misconception, sometimes in both Calvinists and Arminians, about what it means to be saved.
First, the Bible makes a distinction between being saved eternally (eternal life) and being saved in time (conversion). That does not mean that eternal salvation and salvation in time are mutually exclusive. The fact is one begets the other. Salvation is a broad term that encompasses both eternal life and conversion. Therefore, those who experience eternal life will likewise experience conversion. But confusion arises when a failure is made to distinguish the meaning of a small but significant word be.

Most modern Christians, because of false theology, think the scriptures teach that to be means the same thing as to get. However, there is an important difference between the two. If the Bible taught that one must believe in order to get saved, then salvation would be by our own effort. But the Bible teaches one must believe in order to be saved. The word be indicates a statement of fact. The word get indicates a condition to be met.

What's the difference? Mark 16:16 states, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Clearly this scripture is talking about salvation in both its temporal and eternal aspect. Many Christians today have been taught that scriptures such as this one mean you must believe in order to get saved. But that is not at all what Christ said. The term "shall be saved" is translated from the Greek word sodzo. In this passage the verb sodzo is in the Future Tense, Passive Voice, Indicative Mood. The Online Bible says, "The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact." Because sodzo is written in the indicative mood, it means the salvation Christ has under consideration is not and cannot be a condition to be met. It means that belief is the evidence or assurance of salvation not the means to obtain salvation. It means that everyone who has been saved or will "be saved" will believe in Christ as a matter of fact. Thus, as this scripture demonstrates, belief is necessary because of salvation not to get salvation.

If Christ had rendered sodzo in the imperative mood, then one would be correct in saying you must believe in order to get saved. The Online Bible defines the imperative mood as that which, "expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding." A good example of a scripture with an imperative command is found in the Great Commission. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Mathew 28:19. "Teach" is from the Greek word matheteuo. This verb is written in the imperative mood and expresses a clear command to the disciples to teach the nations Christ's doctrine.

Another example of sodzo is found in Ro 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. And again in Ro 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. In both of these scriptures sodzo is rendered in the indicative mood. Therefore it is a statement of fact that anyone who confesses belief in Jesus and His resurrection, calling upon His name from the heart, will be saved. Because the mood is indicative, it is not the belief, confession or sincerity that results in the saving, either in time or in eternity. Jesus Christ is the Saviour. He saves with the power of his shed blood and by grace alone delivers the sinner from death. Belief, confession and sincerity from the heart are all the result of Christ's saving work not the cause or means to obtain that saving work.

The recipients of this sovereign saving work of Christ are referred to in the scriptures as my sheep, His People, my people, the chosen, the elect and Israel (spiritual). John 10:27, Mathew 1:21, II Corinthians 6:16, Ephesians 1:4, II Timothy 2:10, Romans 9:6-24.
It is true that one doesn't have to believe in order to get saved but the Bible teaches a person must believe to be saved.

Elder James Taylor

 

TomFL

Well-known member
"The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact." Because sodzo is written in the indicative mood, it means the salvation Christ has under consideration is not and cannot be a condition to be met. It means that belief is the evidence or assurance of salvation not the means to obtain salvation. It means that everyone who has been saved or will "be saved" will believe in Christ as a matter of fact. Thus, as this scripture demonstrates, belief is necessary because of salvation not to get salvation.


Complete nonsense

The indicative mood has nothing at all to do with faith being an assurance of salvation

and instead of mood you should be looking at tenses

Believe is aorist

Baptized is present

shall be saved is future

The temporal order is


Believe , be baptized and then shall be saved
 

PeanutGallery

Active member
... Most have been deceived to think that believing in Christ or the Gospel is something men must do to get saved, that is error, ...:
Strawman, how many here claim that belief is the determining factor which causes God to save?
God graciously and mercifully saves those who humble themselves and believe.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Complete nonsense

The indicative mood has nothing at all to do with faith being an assurance of salvation

and instead of mood you should be looking at tenses

Believe is aorist

Baptized is present

shall be saved is future

The temporal order is


Believe , be baptized and then shall be saved
I see you ignore wisdom !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
peanut

God graciously and mercifully saves those who humble themselves and believe.

Error, the natural man in the flesh, cannot please God, cannot be subject to God Rom 8:7-8

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Im going to introduce an article that is written very well and explains what it means to believe and be saved. Most have been deceived to think that believing in Christ or the Gospel is something men must do to get saved, that is error, and promotes salvation by works, the work of the sinner. Here is what I believe is the correct understanding of believe and be saved:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16

Must One Believe to "Be Saved?"​

In a word, YES, but not for the reasons most people think. However, those who believe in what is called High Calvinism or Unconditional Election and Predestination or Particular Redemption such as the Primitive Baptists, some times say, No, you don't have to believe in order to be saved. This difficulty arises from a misconception, sometimes in both Calvinists and Arminians, about what it means to be saved.
First, the Bible makes a distinction between being saved eternally (eternal life) and being saved in time (conversion). That does not mean that eternal salvation and salvation in time are mutually exclusive. The fact is one begets the other. Salvation is a broad term that encompasses both eternal life and conversion. Therefore, those who experience eternal life will likewise experience conversion. But confusion arises when a failure is made to distinguish the meaning of a small but significant word be.

Most modern Christians, because of false theology, think the scriptures teach that to be means the same thing as to get. However, there is an important difference between the two. If the Bible taught that one must believe in order to get saved, then salvation would be by our own effort. But the Bible teaches one must believe in order to be saved. The word be indicates a statement of fact. The word get indicates a condition to be met.

What's the difference? Mark 16:16 states, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Clearly this scripture is talking about salvation in both its temporal and eternal aspect. Many Christians today have been taught that scriptures such as this one mean you must believe in order to get saved. But that is not at all what Christ said. The term "shall be saved" is translated from the Greek word sodzo. In this passage the verb sodzo is in the Future Tense, Passive Voice, Indicative Mood. The Online Bible says, "The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact." Because sodzo is written in the indicative mood, it means the salvation Christ has under consideration is not and cannot be a condition to be met. It means that belief is the evidence or assurance of salvation not the means to obtain salvation. It means that everyone who has been saved or will "be saved" will believe in Christ as a matter of fact. Thus, as this scripture demonstrates, belief is necessary because of salvation not to get salvation.

If Christ had rendered sodzo in the imperative mood, then one would be correct in saying you must believe in order to get saved. The Online Bible defines the imperative mood as that which, "expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding." A good example of a scripture with an imperative command is found in the Great Commission. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Mathew 28:19. "Teach" is from the Greek word matheteuo. This verb is written in the imperative mood and expresses a clear command to the disciples to teach the nations Christ's doctrine.

Another example of sodzo is found in Ro 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. And again in Ro 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. In both of these scriptures sodzo is rendered in the indicative mood. Therefore it is a statement of fact that anyone who confesses belief in Jesus and His resurrection, calling upon His name from the heart, will be saved. Because the mood is indicative, it is not the belief, confession or sincerity that results in the saving, either in time or in eternity. Jesus Christ is the Saviour. He saves with the power of his shed blood and by grace alone delivers the sinner from death. Belief, confession and sincerity from the heart are all the result of Christ's saving work not the cause or means to obtain that saving work.

The recipients of this sovereign saving work of Christ are referred to in the scriptures as my sheep, His People, my people, the chosen, the elect and Israel (spiritual). John 10:27, Mathew 1:21, II Corinthians 6:16, Ephesians 1:4, II Timothy 2:10, Romans 9:6-24.
It is true that one doesn't have to believe in order to get saved but the Bible teaches a person must believe to be saved.

Elder James Taylor


I think one of the problems is the inability/unwillingness to distinguish between the three questions:

1) Must one believe to be SAVED?
2) Must one believe to be ELECTED?
3) Must one believe to be REGENERATED?

They are not the same question by any stretch of the imagination, and anyone who thinks they are the same question, or even have the same answer, that is an indication that their theology is faulty.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Three errors here.

Complete nonsense

The first error is ad hominem, as well as a lack of Christian charity.

Maybe you should take a break from the advanced topics of soteriology and hamartiology, and go back to review the basics of Christian charity.

The indicative mood has nothing at all to do with faith being an assurance of salvation

and instead of mood you should be looking at tenses

Error #2:

It's not a case of either/or, BOTH tense and mood are important.


Believe , be baptized and then shall be saved

Error #3:

You seem to be proclaiming a salvation by works ("baptism" is "required").

Well, I have a lot of experience with this passage, as I evangelize to Mormons all the time, and this is one of the verses that they use to try to defend their false doctrine of "baptizing for the dead".

There are two problems:

1) This is called the "longer ending of Mark". It was a later addition. Those who revere the KJV don't like me saying that, including one person I've got on "ignore", but it's the truth regardless.

2) Even if we were to consider that this passage was authentic, it doesn't say that baptism is a necessary requirement for salvation. It has a statement, "he that believeth not shall be damned", showing that belief is necessary, but it does NOT say that "he that is baptized not shall be damned", which would be key if baptism were a requirement.

Further, if we built a "truth-table" of all the combinations that this verse covers regarding belief (or not) and baptized (or not), the ONLY combination is absent is "belief but not baptized", which would be the KEY combination if the passage was actually intended to teach "baptism required".
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Three errors here.


And they are all yours

The first error is ad hominem, as well as a lack of Christian charity.

Maybe you should take a break from the advanced topics of soteriology and hamartiology, and go back to review the basics of Christian charity.

Tell me if you agree with the argument advanced

Complete nonsense

The indicative mood has nothing at all to do with faith being an assurance of salvation

and instead of mood you should be looking at tenses

Believe is aorist

Baptized is present

shall be saved is future

The temporal order is


Believe , be baptized and then shall be saved


then you can deal with wether the gramatical argument that was advancesd based on mood was nonsense or not

and BTW that is not ad hominem as the argument and not the man was addresed

This is your error


Error #2:

It's not a case of either/or, BOTH tense and mood are important.

Sorry but not as far as ascertaining the order

Mood does not indicate order

Care to debate that point

your second error


Error #3:

You seem to be proclaiming a salvation by works ("baptism" is "required").

Sorry I did no such thing

I merely took the order of the verse which was given in the argument

and showed how it breaks done temporally

You have not demonstrated a single error
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I see you ignore wisdom !
Sorry it was error not wisdom

and instead of mood you should be looking at tenses

Believe is aorist

Baptized is present

shall be saved is future

The temporal order is


Believe , be baptized and then shall be saved
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry it was error not wisdom

and instead of mood you should be looking at tenses

Believe is aorist

Baptized is present

shall be saved is future

The temporal order is


Believe , be baptized and then shall be saved
Sorry its wisdom, you cant see it though, God must open your eyes to it. So Cornelius believed to be saved, it gave evidence of his already saved state. He didnt believe to get saved, basically thats your errant understanding, which promotes salvation by works, thats not the purpose of the Gospel, its to inform of the Good News to the saved, they are saved, what better news than that ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Sorry its wisdom, you cant see it though, God must open your eyes to it. So Cornelius believed to be saved, it gave evidence of his already saved state. He didnt believe to get saved, basically thats your errant understanding, which promotes salvation by works, thats not the purpose of the Gospel, its to inform of the Good News to the saved, they are saved, what better news than that ?
It grammar

not a spiritual mystery

Baptized is present

shall be saved is future

The temporal order is


Believe , be baptized and then shall be saved
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
It grammar

not a spiritual mystery

Baptized is present

shall be saved is future

The temporal order is


Believe , be baptized and then shall be saved
Lol, dont need you teaching me grammar and especially not greek. I have studied it before and I know the writer of the article is correct, non debatable !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Lol, dont need you teaching me grammar and especially not greek. I have studied it before and I know the writer of the article is correct, non debatable !
LOL indeed

If you think the mood establishes a temporal order rather than tense
 

SovereignGrace

Active member
Im going to introduce an article that is written very well and explains what it means to believe and be saved. Most have been deceived to think that believing in Christ or the Gospel is something men must do to get saved, that is error, and promotes salvation by works, the work of the sinner. Here is what I believe is the correct understanding of believe and be saved:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16

Must One Believe to "Be Saved?"​

In a word, YES, but not for the reasons most people think. However, those who believe in what is called High Calvinism or Unconditional Election and Predestination or Particular Redemption such as the Primitive Baptists, some times say, No, you don't have to believe in order to be saved. This difficulty arises from a misconception, sometimes in both Calvinists and Arminians, about what it means to be saved.
First, the Bible makes a distinction between being saved eternally (eternal life) and being saved in time (conversion). That does not mean that eternal salvation and salvation in time are mutually exclusive. The fact is one begets the other. Salvation is a broad term that encompasses both eternal life and conversion. Therefore, those who experience eternal life will likewise experience conversion. But confusion arises when a failure is made to distinguish the meaning of a small but significant word be.

Most modern Christians, because of false theology, think the scriptures teach that to be means the same thing as to get. However, there is an important difference between the two. If the Bible taught that one must believe in order to get saved, then salvation would be by our own effort. But the Bible teaches one must believe in order to be saved. The word be indicates a statement of fact. The word get indicates a condition to be met.

What's the difference? Mark 16:16 states, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Clearly this scripture is talking about salvation in both its temporal and eternal aspect. Many Christians today have been taught that scriptures such as this one mean you must believe in order to get saved. But that is not at all what Christ said. The term "shall be saved" is translated from the Greek word sodzo. In this passage the verb sodzo is in the Future Tense, Passive Voice, Indicative Mood. The Online Bible says, "The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact." Because sodzo is written in the indicative mood, it means the salvation Christ has under consideration is not and cannot be a condition to be met. It means that belief is the evidence or assurance of salvation not the means to obtain salvation. It means that everyone who has been saved or will "be saved" will believe in Christ as a matter of fact. Thus, as this scripture demonstrates, belief is necessary because of salvation not to get salvation.

If Christ had rendered sodzo in the imperative mood, then one would be correct in saying you must believe in order to get saved. The Online Bible defines the imperative mood as that which, "expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding." A good example of a scripture with an imperative command is found in the Great Commission. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Mathew 28:19. "Teach" is from the Greek word matheteuo. This verb is written in the imperative mood and expresses a clear command to the disciples to teach the nations Christ's doctrine.

Another example of sodzo is found in Ro 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. And again in Ro 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. In both of these scriptures sodzo is rendered in the indicative mood. Therefore it is a statement of fact that anyone who confesses belief in Jesus and His resurrection, calling upon His name from the heart, will be saved. Because the mood is indicative, it is not the belief, confession or sincerity that results in the saving, either in time or in eternity. Jesus Christ is the Saviour. He saves with the power of his shed blood and by grace alone delivers the sinner from death. Belief, confession and sincerity from the heart are all the result of Christ's saving work not the cause or means to obtain that saving work.

The recipients of this sovereign saving work of Christ are referred to in the scriptures as my sheep, His People, my people, the chosen, the elect and Israel (spiritual). John 10:27, Mathew 1:21, II Corinthians 6:16, Ephesians 1:4, II Timothy 2:10, Romans 9:6-24.
It is true that one doesn't have to believe in order to get saved but the Bible teaches a person must believe to be saved.

Elder James Taylor

Belief is the evidence of conversion, not the cause.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Belief is the evidence of conversion, not the cause.
Contrariwise scripture shows

John 3:14–16 (KJV 1900)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:24 —KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 6:40 —KJV
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
 
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