Must one believe to be saved ?

brightfame52

Well-known member
Ignorance is not wisdom

Mood has nothing to do with temporal; order

Tenses however do

You don't know the difference between error and enlightenment
The article is nonsense mood has nothing to do with temporal order

the tenses do

John 3:14–16 (KJV 1900)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:24 —KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 6:40 —KJV
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

faith is shown to be decisive not just mere information

you are in error
Did you understand the point about the word be? Let's discuss that point
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Did you understand the point about the word be? Let's discuss that point

Go ahead and discussd it

but deal with the tenses

Ignorance is not wisdom

Mood has nothing to do with temporal; order

Tenses however do

You don't know the difference between error and enlightenment
The article is nonsense mood has nothing to do with temporal order

the tenses do

John 3:14–16 (KJV 1900)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:24 —KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 6:40 —KJV
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

faith is shown to be decisive not just mere information

you are in error
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Go ahead and discussd it

but deal with the tenses

Ignorance is not wisdom

Mood has nothing to do with temporal; order

Tenses however do

You don't know the difference between error and enlightenment
The article is nonsense mood has nothing to do with temporal order

the tenses do

John 3:14–16 (KJV 1900)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:24 —KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 6:40 —KJV
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

faith is shown to be decisive not just mere information

you are in error
So did you read what the word means? Be and how it's different from the word get?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So did you read what the word means? Be and how it's different from the word get?
to exist in that state

the promise of existing in that state is fdependant upon believing

the tenses indicate belief came first

shooting down your claim
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
to exist in that state

the promise of existing in that state is fdependant upon believing

the tenses indicate belief came first

shooting down your claim
Right . Which means they were in a saved state already when they believed. They shall be saved. This is how you know they're in a saved state they shall believe.

It's like I have already stated believing is a evidence of having been born again/saved.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Right . Which means they were in a saved state already when they believed. They shall be saved. This is how you know they're in a saved state they shall believe.

It's like I have already stated believing is a evidence of having been born again/saved.
No shall be saved is future tense

It is something that follows belief

You have the grammar backward
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No shall be saved is future tense

It is something that follows belief

You have the grammar backward
Yes its to be existing, and shall be saved in the future. You probably dont know but the Salvation in Christ is past, present and future. Its in the indicative mood which means :

Is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes its to be existing, and shall be saved in the future. You probably dont know but the Salvation in Christ is past, present and future. Its in the indicative mood which means :

Is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.
Mood still says nothing at all about time

That is a function of tense

In

Mark 16:16 —ESV
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

believes is aorist - Perceived as already happened and shall be saved is future

The believing obviously precedes the shall be saved
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
tom

Mood still says nothing at all about time

You cant read, it covers past time, present time and future time, its declaring a fact to be true at anytime really

Is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

The indicative mood (οριστική) presents the action or the event as something real or certain, in other words as an objective fact. This mood is to be found in all tenses.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
peanut



Error, the natural man in the flesh, cannot please God, cannot be subject to God Rom 8:7-8

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Since faith is counted as righteousness, it is thru faith that we are deemed righteous before God. But it is by God's grace that He sees us as righteous and saves us. God never calls faith a work, only Calvinists do this.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Right . Which means they were in a saved state already when they believed. They shall be saved. This is how you know they're in a saved state they shall believe.

It's like I have already stated believing is a evidence of having been born again/saved.
When Paul writes "By grace are you saved through faith" how do you read that to say salvation comes before faith?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
If you refuse to consider everything we are told about faith and salvation, and call the scriptures rabbit trails when you don't wish to incorporate them into your thinking, your doctrine is driving your understanding.
so true
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Do you understand the point made? Did you read the op?
I did read the OP and I understand he was trying to form some doctrine by making a distinction between be and get and also between temporal and eternal salvation. But I was not able to see in scripture what he was trying to do.
So I asked questions relative to the pursuing conversation.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I did read the OP and I understand he was trying to form some doctrine by making a distinction between be and get and also between temporal and eternal salvation. But I was not able to see in scripture what he was trying to do.
So I asked questions relative to the pursuing conversation.
If you don't see the point then this may not be a suitable thread for you to discuss
 

TomFL

Well-known member
tom



You cant read, it covers past time, present time and future time, its declaring a fact to be true at anytime really

Is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

The indicative mood (οριστική) presents the action or the event as something real or certain, in other words as an objective fact. This mood is to be found in all tenses.
And that has nothing at all to do with temporal order
 
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