Must one believe to be saved ?

TomFL

Well-known member
Indicative covers past present and future. I can see now you don't know anything about the greek.
Totally irrelevant

You do not know what you are talking about

Time is determined by tense the indicative mood can appear jn any tense and it does not determine timedo
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Totally irrelevant

You do not know what you are talking about

Time is determined by tense the indicative mood can appear jn any tense and it does not determine timedo
That is another problem. You don't know about greek. The article could help you but you won't receive the wisdom.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
That is another problem. You don't know about greek. The article could help you but you won't receive the wisdom.


This was your statement

"The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact." Because sodzo is written in the indicative mood, it means the salvation Christ has under consideration is not and cannot be a condition to be met. It means that belief is the evidence or assurance of salvation not the means to obtain salvation. It means that everyone who has been saved or will "be saved" will believe in Christ as a matter of fact. Thus, as this scripture demonstrates, belief is necessary because of salvation not to get salvation.

You have no idea what you are talking about

This is what greek scholar At Robertson notes



Mark 16:16

And is baptized (και βαπτισθεις [kai baptistheis]). The omission of baptized with “disbelieveth” would seem to show that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on disbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. Baptism is merely the picture of the new life not the means of securing it. So serious a sacramental doctrine would need stronger support anyhow than this disputed portion of Mark.


A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Mk 16:16.
 
Last edited:

brightfame52

Well-known member
This was your statement

"The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact." Because sodzo is written in the indicative mood, it means the salvation Christ has under consideration is not and cannot be a condition to be met. It means that belief is the evidence or assurance of salvation not the means to obtain salvation. It means that everyone who has been saved or will "be saved" will believe in Christ as a matter of fact. Thus, as this scripture demonstrates, belief is necessary because of salvation not to get salvation.

You have no idea what you are talking about
Just because you don't know greek, men like the writer of the article can shed light.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Just because you don't know greek, men like the writer of the article can shed light.
A real Greek scholar rebutted that nonsense



Mark 16:16

And is baptized (και βαπτισθεις [kai baptistheis]). The omission of baptized with “disbelieveth” would seem to show that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on disbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. Baptism is merely the picture of the new life not the means of securing it. So serious a sacramental doctrine would need stronger support anyhow than this disputed portion of Mark.


A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Mk 16:16.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Im going to introduce an article that is written very well and explains what it means to believe and be saved. Most have been deceived to think that believing in Christ or the Gospel is something men must do to get saved, that is error, and promotes salvation by works, the work of the sinner. Here is what I believe is the correct understanding of believe and be saved:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16

Must One Believe to "Be Saved?"​

In a word, YES, but not for the reasons most people think. However, those who believe in what is called High Calvinism or Unconditional Election and Predestination or Particular Redemption such as the Primitive Baptists, some times say, No, you don't have to believe in order to be saved. This difficulty arises from a misconception, sometimes in both Calvinists and Arminians, about what it means to be saved.
First, the Bible makes a distinction between being saved eternally (eternal life) and being saved in time (conversion). That does not mean that eternal salvation and salvation in time are mutually exclusive. The fact is one begets the other. Salvation is a broad term that encompasses both eternal life and conversion. Therefore, those who experience eternal life will likewise experience conversion. But confusion arises when a failure is made to distinguish the meaning of a small but significant word be.

Most modern Christians, because of false theology, think the scriptures teach that to be means the same thing as to get. However, there is an important difference between the two. If the Bible taught that one must believe in order to get saved, then salvation would be by our own effort. But the Bible teaches one must believe in order to be saved. The word be indicates a statement of fact. The word get indicates a condition to be met.

What's the difference? Mark 16:16 states, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Clearly this scripture is talking about salvation in both its temporal and eternal aspect. Many Christians today have been taught that scriptures such as this one mean you must believe in order to get saved. But that is not at all what Christ said. The term "shall be saved" is translated from the Greek word sodzo. In this passage the verb sodzo is in the Future Tense, Passive Voice, Indicative Mood. The Online Bible says, "The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact." Because sodzo is written in the indicative mood, it means the salvation Christ has under consideration is not and cannot be a condition to be met. It means that belief is the evidence or assurance of salvation not the means to obtain salvation. It means that everyone who has been saved or will "be saved" will believe in Christ as a matter of fact. Thus, as this scripture demonstrates, belief is necessary because of salvation not to get salvation.

If Christ had rendered sodzo in the imperative mood, then one would be correct in saying you must believe in order to get saved. The Online Bible defines the imperative mood as that which, "expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding." A good example of a scripture with an imperative command is found in the Great Commission. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Mathew 28:19. "Teach" is from the Greek word matheteuo. This verb is written in the imperative mood and expresses a clear command to the disciples to teach the nations Christ's doctrine.

Another example of sodzo is found in Ro 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. And again in Ro 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. In both of these scriptures sodzo is rendered in the indicative mood. Therefore it is a statement of fact that anyone who confesses belief in Jesus and His resurrection, calling upon His name from the heart, will be saved. Because the mood is indicative, it is not the belief, confession or sincerity that results in the saving, either in time or in eternity. Jesus Christ is the Saviour. He saves with the power of his shed blood and by grace alone delivers the sinner from death. Belief, confession and sincerity from the heart are all the result of Christ's saving work not the cause or means to obtain that saving work.

The recipients of this sovereign saving work of Christ are referred to in the scriptures as my sheep, His People, my people, the chosen, the elect and Israel (spiritual). John 10:27, Mathew 1:21, II Corinthians 6:16, Ephesians 1:4, II Timothy 2:10, Romans 9:6-24.
It is true that one doesn't have to believe in order to get saved but the Bible teaches a person must believe to be saved.

Elder James Taylor

Salvation via the Gospel to the Primitive Baptists isn't eternal salvation.

As to the OP, yes, belief is essential to eternal life. There is no latter without the former.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
A real Greek scholar rebutted that nonsense



Mark 16:16

And is baptized (και βαπτισθεις [kai baptistheis]). The omission of baptized with “disbelieveth” would seem to show that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on disbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. Baptism is merely the picture of the new life not the means of securing it. So serious a sacramental doctrine would need stronger support anyhow than this disputed portion of Mark.


A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Mk 16:16.
You still don't know the greek and turn
away from wisdom.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
What both subjects? Please point this out.
The OP title is about if we have to believe to be saved, correct? I mean it's in the title, isn't it?

In light of that I stated: "As to the OP, yes, belief is essential to eternal life. There is no latter without the former."

You mentioned the Primitive Baptist take on this in your OP, correct?

Here is what you said: "Unconditional Election and Predestination or Particular Redemption such as the Primitive Baptists, some times say, No, you don't have to believe in order to be saved."

To that I stated: "Salvation via the Gospel to the Primitive Baptists isn't eternal salvation."

Both are on topic and I'm not sure why I need to point out to you what is so glaringly obvious. I went right along with your OP and the very subject matter you brought up and added some qualifying information.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
pot

The OP title is about if we have to believe to be saved, correct? I mean it's in the title, isn't it?

Agreed

In light of that I stated: "As to the OP, yes, belief is essential to eternal life. There is no latter without the former."

Ok even though thats not really my point of the article

You mentioned the Primitive Baptist take on this in your OP, correct?

I dont understand this comment

Here is what you said: "Unconditional Election and Predestination or Particular Redemption such as the Primitive Baptists, some times say, No, you don't have to believe in order to be saved.

I dont recall saying that, but Im going to check the OP to see

Ok, that wasnt my statement but part of the article that I posted.

To that I stated: "Salvation via the Gospel to the Primitive Baptists isn't eternal salvation."

Ok, but thats not my point at all for posting the article

Both are on topic and I'm not sure why I need to point out to you what is so glaringly obvious. I went right along with your OP and the very subject matter you brought up and added some qualifying information.

You failed to make a difference in what my point is and what the writer of the article stated.

Now listen carefully to the point I want to highlight from the article, its about the words :

Must One Believe to "Be Saved?"​


Important statement:

Most modern Christians, because of false theology, think the scriptures teach that to be means the same thing as to get. However, there is an important difference between the two. If the Bible taught that one must believe in order to get saved, then salvation would be by our own effort. But the Bible teaches one must believe in order to be saved. The word be indicates a statement of fact. The word get indicates a condition to be met.

What's the difference? Mark 16:16 states, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Clearly this scripture is talking about salvation in both its temporal and eternal aspect. Many Christians today have been taught that scriptures such as this one mean you must believe in order to get saved. But that is not at all what Christ said. The term "shall be saved" is translated from the Greek word sodzo. In this passage the verb sodzo is in the Future Tense, Passive Voice, Indicative Mood. The Online Bible says, "The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact." Because sodzo is written in the indicative mood, it means the salvation Christ has under consideration is not and cannot be a condition to be met. It means that belief is the evidence or assurance of salvation not the means to obtain salvation. It means that everyone who has been saved or will "be saved" will believe in Christ as a matter of fact. Thus, as this scripture demonstrates, belief is necessary because of salvation not to get salvation.

Now the statement in its temporal aspect i have no problem with, its not my point and im not going to discuss that with you. So do you understand now my point for the article ? Im not a primitive baptist and cant endorse everything they believe and teach !
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
@brightfame52

Your OP asked if one has to believe to be saved in your thread title.

I answered it, yes they do.

You're being disingenuous as if my response is off-topic.

You can get your last word in, I'm not going to bother with silly games here.
 
Top