My Genesis Challenge

A

AV1611VET

Well-known member
1. For those of you who think Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are contradictory, let's discuss it here.
  • My contention: Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 comprise what is called a "framework narrative".
2. For those of you who think God lied to Adam & Eve about dying on the day they ate of the fruit, let's discuss it here.
  • My contention: You don't know the whole story.
Let's talk.
 
AV1611VET said:
1. For those of you who think Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are contradictory, let's discuss it here.
  • My contention: Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 comprise what is called a "framework narrative".
2. For those of you who think God lied to Adam & Eve about dying on the day they ate of the fruit, let's discuss it here.
  • My contention: You don't know the whole story.
Let's talk.
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1. My contention is that Genesis 1 & 2 are from separate oral traditions that were woven together when the Bible was written down.
2. My contention is that you are probably going to come up with some cobbled together excuse. Any mention of 'Spiritual' death will be greeted with the contempt it deserves.
 
Tiburon said:
1. My contention is that Genesis 1 & 2 are from separate oral traditions that were woven together when the Bible was written down.
2. My contention is that you are probably going to come up with some cobbled together excuse. Any mention of 'Spiritual' death will be greeted with the contempt it deserves.
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And you're certainly entitled to your contentions.
 
1. There is a good account of the two different creation accounts at this Christian web site:
biologos.org

What is the Relationship Between the Creation Accounts in Genesis 1 and 2? - Articles

The divergences between the creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2 suggest that these texts are not teaching science; for then we would need to ask which account is scientifically true.
biologos.org biologos.org

Perhaps most significantly for those attempting to harmonize Genesis with science, there is a different order of creative events in each chapter. To begin with, the two creation accounts open with different (indeed, opposite) descriptions of the initial state of the world. Whereas Genesis 1 starts with the earth inundated with water (Gen 1:2), so that God has to separate the waters for the dry land to emerge (Gen 1:9), Genesis 2 begins with the earth as a dry wilderness (Gen 2:5), until a stream or mist emerges to provide water (Gen 2:6).​
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Then, attending to just those creative events mentioned in both chapters, the following divergences are evident. Genesis 1 has water first, then land, followed by plants, animals, and finally humans (’adam, consisting in male and female together). By contrast, Genesis 2 begins with the existence of land, then comes water, followed by a human (’adam, later specified as a man, ’iš), then plants, animals, and finally a woman (’iššâ).​
​
2. With regards to God lying, he told Adam and Eve they would die that day, and they did not. However, another interpretation is that God meant he would punish them by killing them, but when it came to it, he changed his mind. He did not lie, he had a change of heart.
 
AV1611VET said:
1. For those of you who think Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are contradictory, let's discuss it here.
  • My contention: Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 comprise what is called a "framework narrative".
2. For those of you who think God lied to Adam & Eve about dying on the day they ate of the fruit, let's discuss it here.
  • My contention: You don't know the whole story.
Let's talk.
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satan is the one who lied.
Adam and Eve did die even though satan said they wouldn't.
 
The Pixie said:
1. There is a good account of the two different creation accounts at this Christian web site:
Click to expand...

My take on Genesis 2 is that it is a framework narrative -- a story within a story.

I take it vss 9 and 19a are simply parenthetical.

They are repeats of Chapter 1, but not in chronological order.

Notice how many times it mentions God putting Adam into the Garden?

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

God only did it once, but it's mentioned twice.

Thus we're dealing with parenthetical expressions within a framework narrative.

Not two different authors.
 
Some ppl spell satan...
s.n.a.k.e. or s.e.r.p.e.n.t.

And I'm not sure it's productive for us to quibble over God's definition of 'day'.

But satan said they wouldn't and God said they would. God turned out to be correct.

I think it's helpful to also take into account the differing motives of satan and God.

Why would satan want to entice Eve into disobedience to her own detriment?

While God, on the other hand, was warning Eve for her own good.
 
AV1611VET said:
My take on Genesis 2 is that it is a framework narrative -- a story within a story.

I take it vss 9 and 19a are simply parenthetical.

They are repeats of Chapter 1, but not in chronological order.

Notice how many times it mentions God putting Adam into the Garden?

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

God only did it once, but it's mentioned twice.

Thus we're dealing with parenthetical expressions within a framework narrative.

Not two different authors.
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Nope. You are glazing over the direct contradictions that cannot be explained as parenthetical, like when plants showed up, in one account without the sun being established even.
 
Eightcrackers said:
Can an omniscient being change its mind...?
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There was no belief he was omniscient back then. Remember, this is the God who could not find Adam and Eve when they hid from him.

Gen 3:8 Now they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 Then the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?”​
 
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