My Methodist Church is leaving the denomination in one week.

BMS

Well-known member
When scripture is cited to further racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc,, it is by weaponizing the words of those other than Jesus or by taking Jesus' words out of context. What leads you to believe that Jesus would be seen as a bigot? Just to you make you feel more secure about your own views?

What you stand up for be "biblical", but it isn't about "truth". The words spoken by Jesus while preaching His gospel were about truth.
In Matt 19 and Mark 10 Jesus is challenged about divorce and He quotes the Genesis creation accounts. Of course when God says let 'us' make mankind in 'our' image, male and female, the us and our includes Jesus (In the beginning was the Word..)
So the image of God is a man and a woman, and the reason Jesus says is so that a man shall be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh.
That is why Jesus speaks against divorce because it breaks the image of God. It would also be with for example domestic abuse, that would be abuse against the image of God. And of course a man and a man coupling isnt even the image of God or the purpose of God.

So the condemnations of same sex relations are throughout the Bible. Sure the world sees it as bigotry, but Jesus, who is the truth and spoke the truth, even warns His followers that the Kingdom is not world, the world hates Him because of His words and will hate His followers as well, and friendship with the world is emnity with God.
 

Algernon

Active member
In Matt 19 and Mark 10 Jesus is challenged about divorce and He quotes the Genesis creation accounts. Of course when God says let 'us' make mankind in 'our' image, male and female, the us and our includes Jesus (In the beginning was the Word..)
So the image of God is a man and a woman, and the reason Jesus says is so that a man shall be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh.
That is why Jesus speaks against divorce because it breaks the image of God. It would also be with for example domestic abuse, that would be abuse against the image of God. And of course a man and a man coupling isnt even the image of God or the purpose of God.

So the condemnations of same sex relations are throughout the Bible. Sure the world sees it as bigotry, but Jesus, who is the truth and spoke the truth, even warns His followers that the Kingdom is not world, the world hates Him because of His words and will hate His followers as well, and friendship with the world is emnity with God.
Neither Matthew 19 nor Mark 10 can reasonably be taken as "condemnations of same sex relations". Look at the context. In both passages Jesus is explicitly asked about divorce between a MAN and his WIFE. Naturally Jesus' response is framed within that specific context. Jesus was not asked about 'same sex relations" and does not say anything about them.

As I wrote earlier:
When scripture is cited to further racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc,, it is by weaponizing the words of those other than Jesus or by taking Jesus' words out of context.

Your post is one such example.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Neither Matthew 19 nor Mark 10 can reasonably be taken as "condemnations of same sex relations". Look at the context. In both passages Jesus is explicitly asked about divorce between a MAN and his WIFE. Naturally Jesus' response is framed within that specific context. Jesus was not asked about 'same sex relations" and does not say anything about them.
Obviously they do. Look at the context. This is because in Matt 19 and Mark 10 Jesus is challenged about divorce and He quotes the Genesis creation accounts.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them
. - Gen 1
The 'us' and 'our' includes Jesus, Jesus created them male and female. Jesus quotes from what He did..
Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh
. - Gen 2

So we most definitely can say that same sex relations are neither the image of God, nor the creation purpose of God.
And in context of the Bible, nowhere in the Bible are same sex relations countenanced, only man/woman and faith man/woman in the NT. Same sex relations are only ever condemned throughout the Bible, ie Gen 19, Judges 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6-7, Romans 1 and 1 Tim 1


As I wrote earlier:
When scripture is cited to further racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc,, it is by weaponizing the words of those other than Jesus or by taking Jesus' words out of context.

Your post is one such example.
Yes, I saw your bigotry and hatred of Jesus teaching, nonetheless you now know the truth and that up to you what you do with it.
 

John t

Super Member
Yes, I saw your bigotry and hatred of Jesus teaching, nonetheless you now know the truth and that up to you what you do with it.

"God said it, but I choose not to believe it, nor obey it."

That is the creed of those who have itching ears to ignore the clear instructions of God. They do so at their own peril, and to the peril of their acolytes. The Just, righteous and Holy God of Scripture is not impressed by the unbeliever's sophomoric attempts to circumvent God's clear instructions.

Their "reasoning" is specious in the fact that they take an absence of a specifically worded phrase about same sex unions in the Bible as giving permission to have same sex unions. The absurdity of that false logic is seen in the fact that they are attempting to spin a negative (meaning the absence of a prohibition) into a positive (meaning the permission-giving of the God of the Bible to practice abominations any time and any place.

More to the point is the fact that there is no mentioning in ANY of the posts of those about Jesus Christ, the holiness of God the Father, and of Jesus, nor do they mention the fact that they are fully accountable to both. They come from a position of unbelief, and ridicule those who do believe.

The bottom line in all their fallacious posts is that collectively they are trolling both God the Father, and Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Their evil shall not go on unnoticed by God. At God's good time, they will reap the mayhem, which they are spreading like metatastic cancer on CARM. May God have mercy on their souls, and may they repent of their evil.

Just to let y'all, know I am not on an "anti-liberal" rampage but here verbatim is an example from which I am drawing my accurate assessment:

Algernon said:
When scripture is cited to further racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc,, it is by weaponizing the words of those other than Jesus or by taking Jesus' words out of context. What leads you to believe that Jesus would be seen as a bigot? Just to you make you feel more secure about your own views?

To call the Son of God all those worldly-created specious adjectives is a direct attack of ALL that is holy in Scripture, and is indicative of a sin-darkened heart, having a total misunderstanding of salvation and redemption in Jesus Christ only.
 
Last edited:

Algernon

Active member
Obviously they do. Look at the context. This is because in Matt 19 and Mark 10 Jesus is challenged about divorce and He quotes the Genesis creation accounts.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them
. - Gen 1
The 'us' and 'our' includes Jesus, Jesus created them male and female. Jesus quotes from what He did..
Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh
. - Gen 2

So we most definitely can say that same sex relations are neither the image of God, nor the creation purpose of God.
And in context of the Bible, nowhere in the Bible are same sex relations countenanced, only man/woman and faith man/woman in the NT. Same sex relations are only ever condemned throughout the Bible, ie Gen 19, Judges 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6-7, Romans 1 and 1 Tim 1


Yes, I saw your bigotry and hatred of Jesus teaching, nonetheless you now know the truth and that up to you what you do with it.
Look at the following for example. Mark 10 reads much the same.

Matthew 19

3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

It's just as I wrote earlier:
Neither Matthew 19 nor Mark 10 can reasonably be taken as "condemnations of same sex relations". Look at the context. In both passages Jesus is explicitly asked about divorce between a MAN and his WIFE. Naturally Jesus' response is framed within that specific context. Jesus was not asked about 'same sex relations" and does not say anything about them.

When scripture is cited to further racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc,, it is by weaponizing the words of those other than Jesus or by taking Jesus' words out of context.

Jesus was NOT asked about divorce between a man and a man. Nor was He asked anything at all about "same sex relations". You've clearly taken Jesus' words out of context and used them a a weapon to further bigotry. You've clearly twisted the meaning of Jesus' words further bigotry.

This is the way it often goes with bigots. They don't care what Jesus actually said or did not say. They cite His words, then proceed to claim Jesus' words say something they clearly do not say. It's dishonest.
 

Algernon

Active member
Algernon said:
When scripture is cited to further racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc,, it is by weaponizing the words of those other than Jesus or by taking Jesus' words out of context. What leads you to believe that Jesus would be seen as a bigot? Just to you make you feel more secure about your own views?


To call the Son of God all those worldly-created specious adjectives is a direct attack of ALL that is holy in Scripture, and is indicative of a sin-darkened heart, having a total misunderstanding of salvation and redemption in Jesus Christ only.
What I wrote above does NOT in any way " call the Son of God all those worldly-created specious adjectives". Your claim that it does is clearly false. Your claim is ridiculous.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Look at the following for example. Mark 10 reads much the same.

Matthew 19

3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

It's just as I wrote earlier:
Neither Matthew 19 nor Mark 10 can reasonably be taken as "condemnations of same sex relations". Look at the context. In both passages Jesus is explicitly asked about divorce between a MAN and his WIFE. Naturally Jesus' response is framed within that specific context. Jesus was not asked about 'same sex relations" and does not say anything about them.

When scripture is cited to further racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc,, it is by weaponizing the words of those other than Jesus or by taking Jesus' words out of context.

Jesus was NOT asked about divorce between a man and a man. Nor was He asked anything at all about "same sex relations". You've clearly taken Jesus' words out of context and used them a a weapon to further bigotry. You've clearly twisted the meaning of Jesus' words further bigotry.

This is the way it often goes with bigots. They don't care what Jesus actually said or did not say. They cite His words, then proceed to claim Jesus' words say something they clearly do not say. It's dishonest.
Jesus couldn't have been asked about divorce between a man and a man because He created a man and a woman in God's image as it says in Genesis where He quotes from. Since He created a man and a woman in God's image and said 'for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh' He didn't create man and man, that isnt the image of God and that isnt the purpose. You have clearly denied what Jesus said with your bigotry.
This is the way it always goes with bigots, they deny what is written and what was said. Same sex relationships are condemned throughout the Bible such as Gen 19, Judges 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6-7, Romans 1 and 1 Tim 1. NOWHERE is same sex relations countenanced. In addition to homosexual acts, lying is also a sin and so is unbelief. Jesus also warned believers they would be insulted

CharismaticLady's church is absolutely right to leave. The churches where lgbt idolatry replaces Christ will wither on the vine, but not before they have persecuted believers, its the same spirit.
 

BMS

Well-known member
What I wrote above does NOT in any way " call the Son of God all those worldly-created specious adjectives". Your claim that it does is clearly false. Your claim is ridiculous.
Of course you have. I posted the scripture and that was your reply. ABSOLUTELY you did.
what about those Christians who affirm what I wrote and who experience same sex attraction? You obviously don't like some homosexuals.
 

Algernon

Active member
Jesus couldn't have been asked about divorce between a man and a man because He created a man and a woman in God's image as it says in Genesis where He quotes from. Since He created a man and a woman in God's image and said 'for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh' He didn't create man and man, that isnt the image of God and that isnt the purpose. You have clearly denied what Jesus said with your bigotry.
This is the way it always goes with bigots, they deny what is written and what was said. Same sex relationships are condemned throughout the Bible such as Gen 19, Judges 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6-7, Romans 1 and 1 Tim 1. NOWHERE is same sex relations countenanced. In addition to homosexual acts, lying is also a sin and so is unbelief. Jesus also warned believers they would be insulted

CharismaticLady's church is absolutely right to leave. The churches where lgbt idolatry replaces Christ will wither on the vine, but not before they have persecuted believers, its the same spirit.
Listen. It's really simple.

Jesus was specifically asked whether or not it is lawful for a man to divorce his wife

Matthew 19
“Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

Jesus gave the above response as to why a man should not divorce his wife. That's the only point Jesus was making there. Jesus was not asked about "same sex relations". Jesus was never asked about "same sex relations". Jesus never said anything about "same sex relations".

Instead of simply allowing Jesus' words to speak for themselves, you try to claim that they say something they do not. In effect you are putting words in His mouth. You're allowing your bigotry to get the better of you.
 

Algernon

Active member
Of course you have. I posted the scripture and that was your reply. ABSOLUTELY you did.
what about those Christians who affirm what I wrote and who experience same sex attraction? You obviously don't like some homosexuals.
How is it reasonable to claim that the following calls "the Son of God all those worldly-created specious adjectives"? It doesn't.
When scripture is cited to further racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc,, it is by weaponizing the words of those other than Jesus or by taking Jesus' words out of context. What leads you to believe that Jesus would be seen as a bigot? Just to you make you feel more secure about your own views?
 

BMS

Well-known member
Listen. It's really simple.

Jesus was specifically asked whether or not it is lawful for a man to divorce his wife

Matthew 19
“Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

Jesus gave the above response as to why a man should not divorce his wife. That's the only point Jesus was making there. Jesus was not asked about "same sex relations". Jesus was never asked about "same sex relations". Jesus never said anything about "same sex relations".

Instead of simply allowing Jesus' words to speak for themselves, you try to claim that they say something they do not. In effect you are putting words in His mouth. You're allowing your bigotry to get the better of you.
Jesus reference to His creation didn't address divorce, He adds that what God has joined no one should separate. Its implicit in the quote from Genesis of what Jesus created. You have even quoted it yourself and then denied it. What was the reason He created them male and female? It tells you, so that a man shall.. be united with his wife. That is why Jesus created male and female. His audience already knew that and that homosexual relations were sin (Lev 18 & 20). Jesus cant have created man for man because He created woman for man. Bad luck.

You need to allow Jesus' words to speak for themselves instead of holding to the lgbt idolatry.
 

BMS

Well-known member
How is it reasonable to claim that the following calls "the Son of God all those worldly-created specious adjectives"? It doesn't.
When scripture is cited to further racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc,, it is by weaponizing the words of those other than Jesus or by taking Jesus' words out of context. What leads you to believe that Jesus would be seen as a bigot? Just to you make you feel more secure about your own views?
Since Jesus created man and woman to be in faithful union, He cant have created man and man, or woman and woman to be in union. The Biblical testimony of God only ever countenances man/woman union and only ever condemns same sex relations. All the Biblical writers knew it.
I dont really care what you call people who dont agree with your lgbt idolotry and gay jesus character, because lgbt doesnt have the power to save.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Next week our First United Methodist church body is having a congregation meeting and will leave the denomination as it has failed to bring the denomination back into its original holiness. This is over the sexual perversion of gay bishops.
A wise choice; what believers are up against is evident from the responses on these forums. It wont be your average atheist or humanist that will persecute us, it will be the lgbt activists in the church.
 

Algernon

Active member
Jesus reference to His creation didn't address divorce, He adds that what God has joined no one should separate.

When Jesus "adds that what God has joined no one should separate", He IS "addressing divorce" between a MAN and his WIFE which was the point of the question Jesus was asked.

Matthew 19
3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

Everything Jesus said after the question and before the word "Therefore" is the reason Jesus gives as to why a MAN should not divorce his WIFE. The word "therefore" is used to indicate that what precedes it is to be taken as the reason. Why do you not understand what Jesus is saying? For an answer to that you should read John 8.

Jesus gave the above response as to why a man should not divorce his wife. That's the only point Jesus was making there. Jesus was not asked about "same sex relations". Jesus never said anything about "same sex relations".

Instead of simply allowing Jesus' words to speak for themselves, you try to claim that they say something they do not. In effect you are putting words in His mouth. You're allowing your bigotry to get the better of you.
 

BMS

Well-known member
When Jesus "adds that what God has joined no one should separate", He IS "addressing divorce" between a MAN and his WIFE which was the point of the question Jesus was asked.

Matthew 19
3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

Everything Jesus said after the question and before the word "Therefore" is the reason Jesus gives as to why a MAN should not divorce his WIFE. The word "therefore" is used to indicate that what precedes it is to be taken as the reason. Why do you not understand what Jesus is saying? For an answer to that you should read John 8.
I fully agree, I never said otherwise.

But it was not the only point being made. As we have seen Jesus was quoting from the Genesis creation accounts of what He created and why. A same sex relationship is not the image of God so Jesus doesn't need to refer to it. What Jesus has done is point us to what He created. The reason God created male and female was so that a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife. So God didn't create man and woman for same sex relations.

So I am not putting words into Jesus mouth, but rather showing you why Jesus meant what he said. You're allowing your bigotry to get the better of you because you are offended that same sex relations are not the image of God, nor what God created, nor God's purpose for man and woman.

And of course not once have you been able to show any countenance for same sex relations anywhere in the Bible, because there isn't any, its only ever condemned. Jesus said if we love Him we will obey His teaching (John 14-17) Not only that, same sex relations are condemned as a barrier to the Kingdom (Le 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, Romans 1, 1 Tim 1) So actually Methodisim is leaving CharismaticLady's church.
 

Algernon

Active member
I fully agree, I never said otherwise.

But it was not the only point being made.

Still don't understand the use of the word "therefore"?
The reasoning is given before the word "therefore".
The point is given after the word "therefore".

Read again:
Matthew 19
3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

Jesus literally gave one point and one point only: A man should not divorce his wife. That's it. Jesus did not give two points. If Jesus intended two points, He would have given two points after "therefore". But He did not. Jesus gave one point and one point only. Despite this fact, you keep adding YOUR own point and attributing it to Jesus. In doing so, you're effectively putting words in His mouth. Then keep denying that you are doing so. Do you believe that Jesus needs YOU to speak for Him?

Seriously. edit personal comments allow Jesus words to speak for themselves.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BMS

Well-known member
Still don't understand the use of the word "therefore"?
The reasoning is given before the word "therefore".
The point is given after the word "therefore".

Read again:
Matthew 19
3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

Jesus literally gave one point and one point only: A man should not divorce his wife. That's it. Jesus did not give two points. If Jesus intended two points, He would have given two points after "therefore". But He did not. Jesus gave one point and one point only. Despite this fact, you keep adding YOUR own point and attributing it to Jesus. In doing so, you're effectively putting words in His mouth. Then keep denying that you are doing so. Do you believe that Jesus needs YOU to speak for Him?

Seriously. Set aside your bigotry and allow Jesus words to speak for themselves.
However, I took what Jesus said "Have you not read" and looked it up from where it came from, Genesis 2, and put that to you and you accused me of putting words into Jesus mouth. Obviously that isnt the case. The case is you have chosen to ignore why Jesus said it.

When one realises why Jesus quoted what is written in Genesis 2, one can understand the epistles such as 1 Corinthians 7 and Ephesians 5 about the nature of this. One can also then understand why all sexual relations outside faithful man/woman union are against God's purposes.
Same sex relations are not only the opposite of what God has created, but specifically condemned throughout the Bible, even more they are condemned as a barrier to the Kingdom. And there is NOTHING in the Bible testimony to countenance same sex relations. Its as big an issue of unbelief as any other.. and unbelief is a sin.

CharismaticLady's fellowship is right to leave, its impossible to have the same faith when its not, and impossible to argue with people who not only refuse to address what Jesus quotes, but respond by accusing others of 'bigotry'. You have been pointed to the truth according to the Biblical testimony, only the Holy Spirit can now convict you of it.
 

John t

Super Member
I took what Jesus said "Have you not read" and looked it up from where it came from, Genesis 2, and put that to you and you accused me of putting words into Jesus mouth. Obviously that isnt the case. The case is you have chosen to ignore why Jesus said it.

When one realises why Jesus quoted what is written in Genesis 2, one can understand the epistles such as 1 Corinthians 7 and Ephesians 5 about the nature of this. One can also then understand why all sexual relations outside faithful man/woman union are against God's purposes.
Same sex relations are not only the opposite of what God has created, but specifically condemned throughout the Bible, even more they are condemned as a barrier to the Kingdom. And there is NOTHING in the Bible testimony to countenance same sex relations. Its as big an issue of unbelief as any other.. and unbelief is a sin.

Here is some history for you. Hope you enjoy it:

In the early 1900s many Christians found themselves fighting against the liberalism that was creeping into the church. This gave them a desire to set forth the fundamentals of the Christian faith. The task to compile such works defending the Scriptures was given first to A. C. Dixon, then to Louis Meyer, and then ultimately to R. A. Torrey (1856-1928). They compiled the works of many conservative writers and issued them in twelve volumes (later printed in a four-volume set). Included in their work are articles dealing with the fallacies of higher criticism, the inspiration and unity of Scripture, the archeological attestation of Scripture, the divinity of Christ and the Holy Spirit, justification by faith, personal testimonies and much more. This work became known as The Fundamentals. The importance of The Fundamentals was that it showed that there are very reasonable defenses to answer claims against Scripture. This is the unabridged edition which features ninety different articles by sixty-six authors.​

I post that because you are essentially arguing with unbelief, meaning an irrational predisposition to not accept the Bible as a a self-contained and consistent document that God caused to be an instrument of his unconditional love for ALL humanity.

the list that has become the most accepted and most respected list was the list of five fundamentals put together by the 1910 Presbyterian General Assembly. Here is the still-valued list of five fundamentals:


1. The Inerrancy of Scripture​

This fundamental states that the Bible is completely without error and fully truthful in all of its writings in the original manuscripts. The debate over this actually gave birth to both liberal Christianity in the late nineteenth century and fundamentalism in the early twentieth century. Liberal theologians claimed that modern science proved that some of the Bible was probably not true and that therefore the Christian world needed to update itself to these scientific findings.​

2. The Virgin Birth of Christ​

Jesus was not conceived in Mary by a human man but by God the Holy Spirit. This doctrine has been one of the most controversial in the church. And it was one of issues that caused such angst between fundamentalists and liberal Christians. This doctrine is imperative because 1) a belief in the full inerrancy of Scripture demands that we accept this as true, 2) we needed a savior both fully man and fully divine in order for Him to completely and efficiently finalize the sacrifice, and 3) a savior born of a human father would himself have inherited the curse of original sin.​

3. The Substitutionary Atonement of Christ​

This is the doctrine that Jesus died in our place to pay the penalty of sin. Because of original sin which was the transgression of God’s law and our resulting sin nature, all mankind was deservedly under God’s wrath and justly condemned to eternal death. Scripture is full of examples of how Jesus was the ultimate sacrificial lamb who was offered up as a blood offering in our stead.​

4. The Bodily Resurrection of Christ​

This doctrine states that three days after he died for our sins He rose again. But it wasn’t just His spirit that resurrected; it was His entire human body. After the inerrancy of Scripture, this is the most controversial and debated Christian doctrine in history. It has been so strongly defended by fundamentalists because it is possibly the most important part of Jesus’ saving work. In fact, it is widely considered to be the cornerstone of Christianity itself.​

5. The Reality of the Miracles of Christ​

In light of the new modern science knowledge emphasis of the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, believing that Jesus’ could have actually performed miracles came to be seen as irrational. This was particularly the case when all of these miracles were “proven” to be scientifically impossibilities. The liberal theologians, therefore, began to come up with scientific explanations that in reality questioned the deity of Jesus, the truthful recollections of the eyewitnesses, and the integrity of God’s Word.​

These tenets of basic, Bible believng Christianity have never been attested to by your opponents, and it is my opinion that they will never come to any of those positions. Therefore you are arguing against the totally unwarranted theory (and unstated, but assumed theory that the Bible is not to be trusted in anything that it affirms.

Because your opponents try to "play off" one partial quote of Scripture against another, there can be no commonality of belief because such a belief is foreign to a common sense view of letting Scripture speak for itself in full context. Your opponents are actually attempting to destroy your faith in God's word.
 
Last edited:

BMS

Well-known member
Here is some history for you. Hope you enjoy it:

In the early 1900s many Christians found themselves fighting against the liberalism that was creeping into the church. This gave them a desire to set forth the fundamentals of the Christian faith. The task to compile such works defending the Scriptures was given first to A. C. Dixon, then to Louis Meyer, and then ultimately to R. A. Torrey (1856-1928). They compiled the works of many conservative writers and issued them in twelve volumes (later printed in a four-volume set). Included in their work are articles dealing with the fallacies of higher criticism, the inspiration and unity of Scripture, the archeological attestation of Scripture, the divinity of Christ and the Holy Spirit, justification by faith, personal testimonies and much more. This work became known as The Fundamentals. The importance of The Fundamentals was that it showed that there are very reasonable defenses to answer claims against Scripture. This is the unabridged edition which features ninety different articles by sixty-six authors.​

I post that because you are essentially arguing with unbelief, meaning an irrational predisposition to not accept the Bible as a a self-contained and consistent document that God caused to be an instrument of his unconditional love for ALL humanity.

the list that has become the most accepted and most respected list was the list of five fundamentals put together by the 1910 Presbyterian General Assembly. Here is the still-valued list of five fundamentals:


1. The Inerrancy of Scripture​

This fundamental states that the Bible is completely without error and fully truthful in all of its writings in the original manuscripts. The debate over this actually gave birth to both liberal Christianity in the late nineteenth century and fundamentalism in the early twentieth century. Liberal theologians claimed that modern science proved that some of the Bible was probably not true and that therefore the Christian world needed to update itself to these scientific findings.​

2. The Virgin Birth of Christ​

Jesus was not conceived in Mary by a human man but by God the Holy Spirit. This doctrine has been one of the most controversial in the church. And it was one of issues that caused such angst between fundamentalists and liberal Christians. This doctrine is imperative because 1) a belief in the full inerrancy of Scripture demands that we accept this as true, 2) we needed a savior both fully man and fully divine in order for Him to completely and efficiently finalize the sacrifice, and 3) a savior born of a human father would himself have inherited the curse of original sin.​

3. The Substitutionary Atonement of Christ​

This is the doctrine that Jesus died in our place to pay the penalty of sin. Because of original sin which was the transgression of God’s law and our resulting sin nature, all mankind was deservedly under God’s wrath and justly condemned to eternal death. Scripture is full of examples of how Jesus was the ultimate sacrificial lamb who was offered up as a blood offering in our stead.​

4. The Bodily Resurrection of Christ​

This doctrine states that three days after he died for our sins He rose again. But it wasn’t just His spirit that resurrected; it was His entire human body. After the inerrancy of Scripture, this is the most controversial and debated Christian doctrine in history. It has been so strongly defended by fundamentalists because it is possibly the most important part of Jesus’ saving work. In fact, it is widely considered to be the cornerstone of Christianity itself.​

5. The Reality of the Miracles of Christ​

In light of the new modern science knowledge emphasis of the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, believing that Jesus’ could have actually performed miracles came to be seen as irrational. This was particularly the case when all of these miracles were “proven” to be scientifically impossibilities. The liberal theologians, therefore, began to come up with scientific explanations that in reality questioned the deity of Jesus, the truthful recollections of the eyewitnesses, and the integrity of God’s Word.​

These tenets of basic, Bible believng Christianity have never been attested to by your opponents, and it is my opinion that they will never come to any of those positions. Therefore you are arguing against the totally unwarranted theory (and unstated, but assumed theory that the Bible is not to be trusted in anything that it affirms.

Because your opponents try to "play off" one partial quote of Scripture against another, there can be no commonality of belief because such a belief is foreign to a common sense view of letting Scripture speak for itself in full context. Your opponents are actually attempting to destroy your faith in God's word.
Helpful. Many thanks.
 

John t

Super Member
You need to allow Jesus' words to speak for themselves instead of holding to the lgbt idolatry.

In other words, the pseudo-theology of the "woke liberals" having ZERO to do with the God Who gave us His Scriptures.
 
Top