My Methodist Church is leaving the denomination in one week.

Algernon

Active member
However, I took what Jesus said "Have you not read" and looked it up from where it came from, Genesis 2, and put that to you and you accused me of putting words into Jesus mouth. Obviously that isnt the case. The case is you have chosen to ignore why Jesus said it.

I'm NOT "ignoring why Jesus said it". YOU are the one ignoring Jesus' explanation of why He said it. I keep pointing out to you the fact that Jesus explained why He said it in the following.
"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

To be clear. The above are Jesus's words. The above is Jesus' explanation. You have your own explanation of why He said it that you keep adding to Jesus' explanation.

You've made it clear that you think very highly of YOUR explanation. The fact is that no matter how highly YOU think of YOUR explanation, it is not JESUS' explanation. Yet you keep acting as if it were. This should give you pause, but clearly it does not.

You keep demonstrating that you don't care what Jesus actually said and did not say. You keep adding YOUR explantion to what Jesus actually said and attributing it to Jesus. In doing so, you are effectively putting words in Jesus' mouth. How many times do you need the blatantly obvious put in front of you, before you can see it?

Seriously. edit personal comment Jesus words to speak for themselves.
 
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BMS

Well-known member
I'm NOT "ignoring why Jesus said it". YOU are the one ignoring Jesus' explanation of why He said it. I keep pointing out to you the fact that Jesus explained why He said it in the following.
"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”
I have already said I agree with why Jesus said it. All I have done is explore the context of the Genesis passage Jesus quotes from. Already said that.

You've made it clear that you think very highly of YOUR explanation.
I HAVE QUOTED the Genesis passage, and if you believe Jesus its your 'explanation' too. It says what it says.

Seriously. edit and allow Jesus words to speak for themselves.
Even implicit in what you have quoted an cited is, and now I will highlight..
4And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

And that means God didn't create man for man or woman for woman. The reason God created them male and female was so that a man shall be united with his wife. So that rules out same sex relations.

Do you agree?

John 14 " 23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

Do you love Jesus?
 
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BMS

Well-known member
In other words, the pseudo-theology of the "woke liberals" having ZERO to do with the God Who gave us His Scriptures.
Correct. ZERO.


They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” - 2 Peter 2

Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? - Romans 6
 

BMS

Well-known member
Standing up for biblical truth can often be viewed as bigotry and all kinds of other false labeling by those opposed to the idea of truth. In the day in which we live now, I'm sure Jesus would have been labeled "intolerant" at the least - Probably "racist" since that's term rampantly in vogue.
Good post.

Jesus was intolerant of those who argued with Him. He was annoyed with Nicodemus because Nicodemus should have known better, but Nicodemus eventually followed Jesus. A Pharisee invited Jesus to eat with them and when Jesus had finished talking to them they said "Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also.” - Luke 11

But we have this all the time from the lgbt ideologs in the church. They hurls insults. Notice how believers leave the 'fellowship' not lgbt ideologs
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Next week our First United Methodist church body is having a congregation meeting and will leave the denomination as it has failed to bring the denomination back into its original holiness. This is over the sexual perversion of gay bishops.
Wow. So... whatever happened?
It's been a month now.
 

Algernon

Active member
I have already said I agree with why Jesus said it. All I have done is explore the context of the Genesis passage Jesus quotes from. Already said that.
This exactly proves my point. YOU explored "the context of the Genesis passage Jesus quotes from". Then you took YOUR interpretation of that passage and attributed it to Jesus.

So that rules out same sex relations.
Those are YOUR thoughts and words. They are not Jesus' thoughts and words. It's mind-boggling that you are unable to tell the difference. It's as if you actually believe YOUR thoughts are Jesus' thoughts. Such arrogance.

John 14 " 23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

Do you love Jesus?
Those who love Jesus listen to and obey HIS voice. They abide in HIS word. You abide in the words of those other than Jesus, then claim that they are Jesus' words. Such dishonesty.
 

John t

Super Member
Wow. So... whatever happened?
It's been a month now.
The absence of any evidence of a narrative regarding your question to CL, does legitimately raise the possibility of inaction by the church or of contravening action by the UMC

Whatever the case, there are some posts by the writer of the OP, which are baffling, to say the least:


In Mark 16, make sure you start with the verse he left off:16

I don't know where imJRR stands, but if he is a Cessationist, don't let anyone destroy your faith.

I need to ask him put the word Charismatic in the name so it tells more about us. We were a United Methodist Church, but did healing too. That is where I learned about the "commanding". And after that tried it myself and it worked. But any Christian can command. I do not have that office, so people shouldn't be asking me to heal anyone, instead of doing it themselves. Mark 16:16-18 is a list of personal individual authorities, but 1 Cor. 12 has the gifts for ministry and for offices in the church. Healing is in both

That seems like Word of Faith teaching.

I personally don't know because I wasn't there. But the pastor certainly is planning to rename the church already, so I believe its a done deal.

Pardon, but this (above) seems to be a contradiction in what was previously posted.

No, I am NOT attacking you, but I certainly am cutting and pasting your words, and making pertinent observations.
 
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BMS

Well-known member
This exactly proves my point. YOU explored "the context of the Genesis passage Jesus quotes from". Then you took YOUR interpretation of that passage and attributed it to Jesus.
I also quoted what it said.

Those are YOUR thoughts and words. They are not Jesus' thoughts and words.
What I quoted is Jesus thoughts and words. Dont say they aren't.
It's mind-boggling that you are unable to tell the difference. It's as if you actually believe YOUR thoughts are Jesus' thoughts. Such arrogance.
Its mind boggling to see the arrogant audacity to suggest they are my words and not the words of Jesus. So as we read, the reason Jesus created male and female was so that a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh. You posted that yourself.
He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’?

Those who love Jesus listen to and obey HIS voice. They abide in HIS word.
Absolutely, I pointed that scripture out to you, John 14-17. Jesus said if we love Him we will obey His teaching. He didn't say if we love Him we will 'interpret' His teaching contrary to what He said, to suit your lgbt agenda.
You abide in the words of those other than Jesus, then claim that they are Jesus' words. Such dishonesty.
Obviously not, these are Jesus words..
He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’?

The reason CharismaticLady's church is leaving the denomination is Jesus's words have become hateful to their idolatry of lgbt, so they accuse the believing brethren.

Since the reason God created male and female was so that a man ..shall be united with his wife to become one flesh, God didn't create a man for a man or a woman for a woman. That is why same sex relations are never countenanced in the Bible and are specifically condemned ie Gen 19, Judges 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6-7, Romans 1, 1 Tim 1.
 

BMS

Well-known member
C'mon. Do you honestly believe that the words "So that rules out same sex relations" are Jesus' words and not your own?

edit
C'mon, I never said "So that rules out same sex relations" are Jesus words. If we love Jesus we obey His teaching. Here is some of His teaching you quoted yourself.
He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’?

So what was the reason Jesus created male and female? For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.
Tell me how same sex relations fits in with His reason for creating male and female so that man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife?
 
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YeshuaFan

Well-known member
C'mon. Do you honestly believe that the words "So that rules out same sex relations" are Jesus' words and not your own?

edit
EVERY time homosexual and lesbian activity described in Bib le, always as sinning!
 
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Algernon

Active member
C'mon, I never said "So that rules out same sex relations" are Jesus words.
Actually, you in effect did.

Calm down and pay attention to what I've actually been writing. It's not the same as what you think I've been writing.
1) Reread my post #66.
2) Pay particular attention to where I quote you having written: "So that rules out same sex relations".
Read what I wrote in response to that quote:
"Those are YOUR thoughts and words. They are not Jesus' thoughts and words. It's mind-boggling that you are unable to tell the difference. It's as if you actually believe YOUR thoughts are Jesus' thoughts. Such arrogance."
3) Reread your post #68.
4) Pay particular attention to the places where you quote my aforementioned response (#2 above).
You wrote things such as:
"What I quoted is Jesus thoughts and words. Dont say they aren't"
and "Its mind boggling to see the arrogant audacity to suggest they are my words and not the words of Jesus."

Can you still not understand how you in effect claimed that "So that rules out same sex relations" are Jesus words?

It's been like this our entire discussion. You keep misreading what I write and then pretend that you haven't. If you don't believe it, go back through all our posts to one another.
 
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John t

Super Member
I really don't know. I'm not Methodist, I just like that particular church. It is very small in a country town, but supplies one of the biggest food banks in the area. Not only that, but the first time I went to see what this church preached, I already believed what they did, so didn't feel so out of place like I generally do. They are Spirit-filled and I even experienced a healing there of my ribs.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Actually, you in effect did.
Actually Jesus does in effect in the Matthew 19 passage you quoted yourself. If we look at the Genesis accounts Jesus is quoting from we can understand more, but seeing as you dont want to, if you address the question about what you quoted Jesus saying, you will also have to admit that same sex relations are the opposite of God's creation purpose.
Of course you cant address it without it being obvious same sex relations are the opposite of what God created.

So here is the question again.

Tell me how same sex relations fits in with His reason for creating male and female so that man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife?
 

BMS

Well-known member
NOT by Jesus in Matthew 19.
Well yes by Jesus in Matthew 19 as you will see if you answer the question.

Tell me how same sex relations fits in with His reason for creating male and female so that man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife?

Furthermore Jesus in the gospels promises the Holy Spirit will guide believers in truth and remind them of all Jesus said. Those were not only the gospel writers who lived with Jesus but also the others endorsed by those gospel writers who wrote the epistles who you dont believe either.

hat's what @BMS and I are discussing. If you want to join our discussion, then go back and read it in its entirety.
Don't tell Yeshua Fan not to be involved in a discussion that you arent having with me. This forum is open to all and not policed by lgbt bullies who cause people to leave the churches they have infested.

You answer my question.

Well done Yeshua Fan. Keep going
 

John t

Super Member
So here is the question again.

Tell me how same sex relations fits in with His reason for creating male and female so that man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife?

It is my opinion that you are being trolled by someone who really does not want to know what God actually stated in the Bible, and if that ever happened, the poster has no intention of saying "God is correct in whatever He does" Nor does have any intention of OBEYING that God, his creator.
 

BMS

Well-known member
It is my opinion that you are being trolled by someone who really does not want to know what God actually stated in the Bible, and if that ever happened, the poster has no intention of saying "God is correct in whatever He does" Nor does have any intention of OBEYING that God, his creator.
Of course. The danger for the believing church is primarily from those within. In the UK they are the first to be asking for believers to be prosecuted for quoting Jesus words.
 
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