My Original Question for Christians

Nouveau

Well-known member
If God warns us not to drink poison and we drink poison after being warned not to is that still God’s fault in your opinion ?
The person is also responsible, but God is ultimately responsible if He created us, the poison, and the consequences of drinking the poison.
 

Leatherneck0311

Active member
The person is also responsible, but God is ultimately responsible if He created us, the poison, and the consequences of drinking the poison.
Got ya, if God warns us not to do something and we DISOBEY God it is still God’s fault in your opinion. You must be a millennial.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Got ya, if God warns us not to do something and we DISOBEY God it is still God’s fault in your opinion. You must be a millennial.
No, just a rational person who doesn't excuse God for His actions. Again, ultimate control means ultimate responsibility. There's really no getting around that.
 

Leatherneck0311

Active member
No, just a rational person who doesn't excuse God for His actions. Again, ultimate control means ultimate responsibility. There's really no getting around that.
Anything but rational ! So if your parents warned you to not play in traffic and you did and she spanked that rear end by your warped logic it would all be her fault. Keep on the road you’re on but remember eternity is a long time. God made a provision for you to be saved and warned everyone of the consequences of rejecting His provision. You have been warned.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Anything but rational ! So if your parents warned you to not play in traffic and you did and she spanked that rear end by your warped logic it would all be her fault.
Only if the parents also created the road, traffic, and consequences of traffic. Which they didn't. So your analogy doesn't really hold up.

Keep on the road you’re on but remember eternity is a long time. God made a provision for you to be saved and warned everyone of the consequences of rejecting His provision. You have been warned.
Warnings sans evidence are not rationally persuasive.
 

Leatherneck0311

Active member
Only if the parents also created the road, traffic, and consequences of traffic. Which they didn't. So your analogy doesn't really hold up.


Warnings sans evidence are not rationally persuasive.
Reality is reality which it appears you have a problem grasping. If Satan isn’t real please explain all the evil in the world.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Reality is reality which it appears you have a problem grasping.
Which of course does not address my point. If God created reality then He is responsible for it - ALL of it, the good and the bad.

If Satan isn’t real please explain all the evil in the world.
Evil comes from natural processes that we cannot control, and the fallible actions of imperfect human beings who are limited in their capacity for empathy and the consideration of others. If God is real, good, all-powerful, and all-knowing, then YOU need to explain why there is any evil at all.
 

Algor

Active member
Anything but rational ! So if your parents warned you to not play in traffic and you did and she spanked that rear end by your warped logic it would all be her fault. Keep on the road you’re on but remember eternity is a long time. God made a provision for you to be saved and warned everyone of the consequences of rejecting His provision. You have been warned.
Well hold up a bit. If a mother did that, she would still have moral agency. The fact that she may be doing the right thing does not excuse her from responsibility. Moreover, if a mother did that, even intending nothing but good, and harmed her child, she would blame herself till the end of her days. That's because mothers hold themselves morally accountable and have difficulty when accused by their children: they know that they have harmed their child, and nothing eats at a parent so much as that.

So you can accuse a son or daughter all you like of lacking parental respect. Maybe that's true, and children should respect their parent. But that doesn't let the parent off the hook, even if they have the best intent. The PARENT doesn't let themselves off the hook.
 

Leatherneck0311

Active member
Which of course does not address my point. If God created reality then He is responsible for it - ALL of it, the good and the bad.


Evil comes from natural processes that we cannot control, and the fallible actions of imperfect human beings who are limited in their capacity for empathy and the consideration of others. If God is real, good, all-powerful, and all-knowing, then YOU need to explain why there is any evil at all.
Easy , Satan rebelled against God got thrown out of heaven and influences and leads many into lies and rebellion against God as he did you.
 

Leatherneck0311

Active member
Well hold up a bit. If a mother did that, she would still have moral agency. The fact that she may be doing the right thing does not excuse her from responsibility. Moreover, if a mother did that, even intending nothing but good, and harmed her child, she would blame herself till the end of her days. That's because mothers hold themselves morally accountable and have difficulty when accused by their children: they know that they have harmed their child, and nothing eats at a parent so much as that.

So you can accuse a son or daughter all you like of lacking parental respect. Maybe that's true, and children should respect their parent. But that doesn't let the parent off the hook, even if they have the best intent. The PARENT doesn't let themselves off the hook.
Spanking a butt for disobedience doesn’t hardly equate to harming it is actually just the opposite.
 

Leatherneck0311

Active member
Which of course does not address my point. If God created reality then He is responsible for it - ALL of it, the good and the bad.


Evil comes from natural processes that we cannot control, and the fallible actions of imperfect human beings who are limited in their capacity for empathy and the consideration of others. If God is real, good, all-powerful, and all-knowing, then YOU need to explain why there is any evil at all.
I did you just cannot receive truth.
 

Algor

Active member
Spanking a butt for disobedience doesn’t hardly equate to harming it is actually just the opposite.
Disciplining a child may be necessary, but let's not pretend that it can't go wrong, and let's not pretend that everything that is justified by appeal to God's ultimate goodness is justifiable by any human measure in the here and now.
 

Leatherneck0311

Active member
Disciplining a child may be necessary, but let's not pretend that it can't go wrong, and let's not pretend that everything that is justified by appeal to God's ultimate goodness is justifiable by any human measure in the here and now.
It isn’t that hard to understand God wants the best for us and has provided a way to escape eternal wrath. It is not God’s fault if people reject God and His provisions.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Easy , Satan rebelled against God got thrown out of heaven and influences and leads many into lies and rebellion against God as he did you.
Did God lack the ability to prevent Satan from bringing evil into the world? Did God not create Satan and determine his nature?
 

Algor

Active member
It isn’t that hard to understand God wants the best for us and has provided a way to escape eternal wrath. It is not God’s fault if people reject God and His provisions.
You have people who undergo terrible things and lose all faith in God. I've met people who were enslaved and tortured (yes: literally that. Ethiopian, 1990's) and watched their family and village killed in front of them. I think its easy to understand why you might lose your faith in a loving God when you live through that. I can't blame the person for rejecting God: it seems to me to be totally reasonable. Who is responsible there? Who is responsible when a child is raped and abused, and grows up mistrusting everything including religion? The child? No, that isn't right.

I guess what I'm saying is the world can be shockingly ugly and messy, and it perenially surprises me (it really shouldn't, but it does) how hard people work at insisting that it is somehow understandable and just fine. I mean, if your religion helps things make sense to you, fine. I really can't criticize. But isn't it reasonable to say that no amount of explanation can make some things make sense?
 
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