My Recent Arrival at Christianity and Apologetics

[Unknown Soldier]

You think you live a sinless life?

Yes. The power of the Holy Ghost who indwells me enables me to dispense with sin. Of course, the Holy Ghost won't indwell a "sinful temple."

Was this all your life or just now.

It started recently with my conversion.

Do you consider others better than yourself?

I can't offer a definitive answer to this question because I don't make a practice of evaluating people's worth.

Is every thing you do, first thought of as to how it might effect others?

I think so. I do try to be thoughtful in that regard.

Do you play your music too loud?

I don't bother people with it if that's what you're asking.

Do you let your dog bark at night?

I don't have a dog partly because it may bark at night bothering my neighbors.

Your claim of living a sinless life is why someone else said to you: "there is a lot of self-righteous Pharisee stuff."

But I have the righteousness of Christ imparted to me by the Holy Ghost. If others don't have that righteousness, then they are as free as I am to accept it.

1 Kings 8:46 “When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin)

1John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

You're taking 1 John 1:8 out of context. If we append verses 6 and 7 we have:

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him while we are walking in darkness, we lie and do not do what is true; 7 but if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

So what John is actually saying is that we deceive ourselves as sinless "if we are walking in darkness" (i.e. sin). If you or anybody are walking in that darkness of sin, then the blood of Jesus can cleanse you from sin if you repent.

Anyway, one of the reasons I believe God saved me from sin is because so many distort His word, and he wants me to reveal to people that by distorting God's word, they imperil souls. Please be more careful from now on to check the context of anything you quote from God's word. Otherwise, people may be deceived.

 

[Gary Mac]

Yes. The power of the Holy Ghost who indwells me enables me to dispense with sin. Of course, the Holy Ghost won't indwell a "sinful temple."

It cant!

It started recently with my conversion.

Good for you!

I can't offer a definitive answer to this question because I don't make a practice of evaluating people's worth.

One can only evaluate his own worth for sure.

I think so. I do try to be thoughtful in that regard.

I don't bother people with it if that's what you're asking.

I can see you are pretty toughed skin and can take ridicule.

I don't have a dog partly because it may bark at night bothering my neighbors.

Religious folk bark up the wrong tree all the time. LOL

But I have the righteousness of Christ imparted to me by the Holy Ghost. If others don't have that righteousness, then they are as free as I am to accept it.

So true, spot on man!

You're taking 1 John 1:8 out of context. If we append verses 6 and 7 we have:

These always do. 1 John 3:9 always is contrary to most of these belief systems where they cant relate to Gods reality of sight if one says he is without sin is a liar. There is no contradiction there only misinterpretation from lack in having from God that what Jesus had from Him in Matt 3;16.

So what John is actually saying is that we deceive ourselves as sinless "if we are walking in darkness" (i.e. sin). If you or anybody are walking in that darkness of sin, then the blood of Jesus can cleanse you from sin if you repent.

Thank you -- most confess they are sinners but never repent from them

Anyway, one of the reasons I believe God saved me from sin is because so many distort His word, and he wants me to reveal to people that by distorting God's word, they imperil souls. Please be more careful from now on to check the context of anything you quote from God's word. Otherwise, people may be deceived.

Man you are the first I have seen on CARM who actually had good advice concerning maturity.

 

[Bocco]

Please be more careful from now on to check the context of anything you quote from God's word.

Again, here is the whole passage.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

It sounds like if we walk in the light and then sin and then confess them He will forgive us. If we say we are sinless we make Him out to be a liar.

Unknown soldier:
I think so. I do try to be thoughtful in that regard.

Thinking so isn't good enough.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I try to be thoughtful all the time also, but I always fall short. That is what sin is basically "falling short."

Some denominations teach this "sinless life" stuff.

Keep studying and growing. I myself would say these forums are probably the worst place for a new Christian to waste their time.

 

[JonHawk]

Again, here is the whole passage.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Keep studying and growing. I myself would say these forums are probably the worst place for a new Christian to waste their time.

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2 Peter 3:18

So that we should no longer be tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—Eph 4

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It cant!

Absolutely. Whenever I see a supposed Christian sinning, I realize right away that there's no way that the Holy Ghost is indwelling that person.

One can only evaluate his own worth for sure.

I suppose I could evaluate other people, but I normally don't.

I can see you are pretty toughed skin and can take ridicule.

If I'm being ridiculed for Christ, I am to be exceedingly glad. Those supposed Christians here who moan when they think they are mocked for Jesus evidently hate what they do for Jesus. In so doing they disobey Christ who commands us to rejoice in whatever we do for him.

Religious folk bark up the wrong tree all the time. LOL

They've barked at me often enough.

These always do. 1 John 3:9 always is contrary to most of these belief systems where they cant relate to Gods reality of sight if one says he is without sin is a liar. There is no contradiction there only misinterpretation from lack in having from God that what Jesus had from Him in Matt 3;16.

It appears that some people lack the effort to make sure that what they quote from the Bible is in its proper context.

Thank you -- most confess they are sinners but never repent from them

Yes. The confession of sin is to be followed by repentance.

Man you are the first I have seen on CARM who actually had good advice concerning maturity.

There's more to come!

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Again, here is the whole passage.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

It sounds like if we walk in the light and then sin and then confess them He will forgive us. If we say we are sinless we make Him out to be a liar.

If you're cleansed from all sin, then it matters little if you sin afterward. I believe when John told us we are cleansed from all sin, he wasn't just referring to sins of the past but lifelong sin. Yes, I would be lying if I say I have never sinned (past tense--in bold) because I have sinned. But I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that through the power of the Holy Ghost I no longer sin; that's the whole purpose of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. He cleanses us from not just past sin but from sin forever. He's God. He can do it.

Some denominations teach this "sinless life" stuff.

Do you prefer a denomination that tolerates sin? You should know that that "'sinless life' stuff" comes right out of the Bible. Do you really think those denominations made up the idea of a sinless life?

Keep studying and growing.

Yes. Of course.

I myself would say these forums are probably the worst place for a new Christian to waste their time.

If this forum is a waste of time, then why are you here?

 

[Dizerner]

You should know that that "'sinless life' stuff" comes right out of the Bible. Do you really think those denominations made up the idea of a sinless life?

There is no one good but God, in your flesh dwells no good thing, all have fallen short of the glory of God, by the works of the Law no flesh shall be justified, the Pharisees were those who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, they stumbled at the stumbling stone because they sought righteousness as if it were by works of the Law, if I rebuild what I destroyed I show myself to be a transgressor and on and on.

Every moment you don't love God and neighbor perfectly, you fall short of perfect and each second you earn and deserve the punishment of God's wrath eternally in hell. You cannot earn and merit your way to heaven either before or after having sins forgiven. It doesn't work that way.

The calls to holy living are non-meritorious requirements of allowing grace to work within you and still fall short of God's perfection.

 

[Gary Mac]

Absolutely. Whenever I see a supposed Christian sinning, I realize right away that there's no way that the Holy Ghost is indwelling that person.

I suppose I could evaluate other people, but I normally don't.

If I'm being ridiculed for Christ, I am to be exceedingly glad. Those supposed Christians here who moan when they think they are mocked for Jesus evidently hate what they do for Jesus. In so doing they disobey Christ who commands us to rejoice in whatever we do for him.

They've barked at me often enough.

It appears that some people lack the effort to make sure that what they quote from the Bible is in its proper context.

Yes. The confession of sin is to be followed by repentance.

There's more to come!

Cant wait.

 

[JonHawk]

Yes. The power of the Holy Ghost who indwells me enables me to dispense with sin. Of course, the Holy Ghost won't indwell a "sinful temple."

You know that he appeared to take away sins,... Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:4-6
They have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. His word does not abide in them; because whom He sent, they do not believe. John 5:37-38
The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in Me. John 16:7-9

 

[Gary Mac]

You know that he appeared to take away sins,... Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:4-6
They have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. His word does not abide in them; because whom He sent, they do not believe. John 5:37-38
The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in Me. John 16:7-9

Yes sin is separation from God.

 

[JonHawk]

JonHawk said:
You know that he appeared to take away sins,... Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:4-6
They have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. His word does not abide in them; because whom He sent, they do not believe. John 5:37-38
The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in Me. John 16:7-9

Yes sin is separation from God.

Remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But through Christ's sacrifice you have access to God. Eph 2:12-13

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight; Col 1

 

[Bocco]

If you're cleansed from all sin, then it matters little if you sin afterward. I believe when John told us we are cleansed from all sin, he wasn't just referring to sins of the past but lifelong sin. Yes, I would be lying if I say I have never sinned (past tense--in bold) because I have sinned. But I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that through the power of the Holy Ghost I no longer sin; that's the whole purpose of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. He cleanses us from not just past sin but from sin forever. He's God. He can do it.

1John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Paul is writing to Christians. But if anyone (of you Christians I am writing to) does sin.

You say if you are cleansed from all sin, it matters little if we sin afterwards.

Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

In contexts like this, the Greek word for flesh (sarx) refers to the sinful state of human beings, often presented as a power in opposition to the Spirit

1 peter 2:16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves.

Evil
kakia
Badness, that is, (subjectively) depravity, or (actively) malignity, or (passively) trouble: - evil, malice (-iousness), naughtiness, wickedness.

Sinning after we are saved, just shows how much of the flesh is still in us.

If this forum is a waste of time, then why are you here?

I said it is a waste of time for new Christians. I've been a Christian for around 40 years. I have read multitudes of systematic theologies, Biblical theologies, commentaries, sermons and everything in between. That is what a new Christian needs to be doing instead of being here.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

There is no one good but God, in your flesh dwells no good thing, all have fallen short of the glory of God, by the works of the Law no flesh shall be justified, the Pharisees were those who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, they stumbled at the stumbling stone because they sought righteousness as if it were by works of the Law, if I rebuild what I destroyed I show myself to be a transgressor and on and on.

Every moment you don't love God and neighbor perfectly, you fall short of perfect and each second you earn and deserve the punishment of God's wrath eternally in hell. You cannot earn and merit your way to heaven either before or after having sins forgiven. It doesn't work that way.

The calls to holy living are non-meritorious requirements of allowing grace to work within you and still fall short of God's perfection.

I'm not sure what this post has to do with Christian denominations preaching that we should live sinless lives. Can you clarify?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

You know that he appeared to take away sins,... Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:4-6
They have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. His word does not abide in them; because whom He sent, they do not believe. John 5:37-38
The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in Me. John 16:7-9

That's right, Jon! Why, then, are there so many sinners in the church?

 

[Bocco]

Wesleyan perfectionism

Wesleyan perfectionism, sometimes called entire sanctification, is a view held by John Wesley that taught that Christians could to some degree attain perfection in this life. Wesley described it as,

"...that habitual disposition of the soul which, in the sacred writings, is termed holiness; and which directly implies being cleansed from sin, 'from all filthiness both of flesh and spirit'; and, by consequence, being endued with those virtues which were in Christ Jesus; being so 'renewed in the image of our mind,' as to be 'perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect' ( A Plain Account of Christian Perfectionism, p. 12). Furthermore,

"In this is perfection, and glory, and happiness: the royal law of heaven and earth is this, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all they heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength.' The one perfect good shall be your one ultimate end" (Ibid.). Lastly, perfection is "deliverance from inward as well as from outward sin" (ibid., p. 26) and "a Christian is so far perfect as not to commit sin" (ibid., p. 25).

Today this view is held by some churches in the Nazarene, Church of God, and Pentecostal Holiness Church denominations.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

1John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Paul is writing to Christians. But if anyone (of you Christians I am writing to) does sin.

I think you're assuming without good reason that John believed that all whom he was writing to were saved Christians. In the same way that assuming that all those in a modern church congregation are actually saved is foolish, John would be every bit as foolish to make that same assumption about his readers back in the first century. I think it's much more likely that when John refers to those who do sin , he is referring to those who are not saved or not saved yet.

You say if you are cleansed from all sin, it matters little if we sin afterwards.

Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

In contexts like this, the Greek word for flesh (sarx) refers to the sinful state of human beings, often presented as a power in opposition to the Spirit

1 peter 2:16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves.

Evil
kakia
Badness, that is, (subjectively) depravity, or (actively) malignity, or (passively) trouble: - evil, malice (-iousness), naughtiness, wickedness.

Sinning after we are saved, just shows how much of the flesh is still in us.

I think you misunderstand what I posted earlier. When I said that "it matters little if we sin afterwards," I was saying that our supposed salvation matters little if we continue to sin. If we still sin, then our salvation was not real, and an unreal salvation "matters little." What really matters is a genuine regeneration that puts an end to our sin.

I said it is a waste of time for new Christians. I've been a Christian for around 40 years. I have read multitudes of systematic theologies, Biblical theologies, commentaries, sermons and everything in between. That is what a new Christian needs to be doing instead of being here.

Why can't a "new" Christian both read those kinds of works and haunt this forum? With your kind of knowledge of theology, you should be very helpful to any Christian new or old in this forum or out of it.

 

[Our Lord's God]

I think you're assuming without good reason that John believed that all whom he was writing to were saved Christians.

You obviously didn't think about that very hard before you spoke. It's quite plain who he is writing to.


But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 2:20

24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

You, dear children, are from God.... We are from God 4:4-6

In the same way that assuming that all those in a modern church congregation are actually saved is foolish, John would be every bit as foolish to make that same assumption about his readers back in the first century. I think it's much more likely that when John refers to those who do sin , he is referring to those who are not saved or not saved yet.

I think you misunderstand what I posted earlier. When I said that "it matters little if we sin afterwards," I was saying that our supposed salvation matters little if we continue to sin. If we still sin, then our salvation was not real, and an unreal salvation "matters little." What really matters is a genuine regeneration that puts an end to our sin.

Why can't a "new" Christian both read those kinds of works and haunt this forum? With your kind of knowledge of theology, you should be very helpful to any Christian new or old in this forum or out of it.

 

[JonHawk]

Bocco said:
You think you live a sinless life?

Yes. The power of the Holy Ghost who indwells me enables me to dispense with sin. Of course, the Holy Ghost won't indwell a "sinful temple."

But I have the righteousness of Christ imparted to me ...

JonHawk said:
You know that he appeared to take away sins,... Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:4-6
They have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. His word does not abide in them; because whom He sent, they do not believe. John 5:37-38
The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in Me. John 16:7-9

That's right, Jon! Why, then, are there so many sinners in the church?

The obvious answer is that they can't decide whether they are in a right standing based on the righteousness of Christ or if they are enabled to get rid of sin through the indwelling Holy Spirit, that of course is not in cahoots with defiled temples.
But to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is clean; Titus 1:15

Anyway, one of the reasons I believe God saved me from sin is because so many distort His word, and he wants me to reveal to people that by distorting God's word, they imperil souls.

They will utterly perish in their own corruption, and will receive the wages of unrighteousness; They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you; They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 2 Peter 2:12-14

 

[Gary Mac]

JonHawk said:
You know that he appeared to take away sins,... Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:4-6
They have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. His word does not abide in them; because whom He sent, they do not believe. John 5:37-38
The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in Me. John 16:7-9

Remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But through Christ's sacrifice you have access to God. Eph 2:12-13

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight; Col 1

I have access to God the same way Jesus had access to God. He was His son as well. You are supposed to be His son as well but as long as you follow Paul instead of Jesus that aint gonna happen is it?

 

[JonHawk]

I have access to God the same way Jesus had access to God.

We have access through Christ. Rom 5:1-2

He was His son as well. You are supposed to be His son as well

And because we are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, Gal 4:6

but as long as you follow Paul

God was pleased to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you,...Col 1:26-28

instead of Jesus

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. John 1

that aint gonna happen is it?

You know what Jesus said traveler, But if the light in you is darkness, how great is that darkness! Matt 6:23