My Recent Arrival at Christianity and Apologetics

JonHawk

Well-known member
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JonHawk said:
And now I entrust you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified [by faith in Me]. Acts 20:32
I dont have faith in Paul, I have the faith of the Father as Jesus did. Same mind of Christ, Gods anointing.
The [Me] is referring to the One He sent, Christ.
I'm sending you to open their spiritual eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God , that they may receive forgiveness and release from their sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified (set apart, made holy) by faith in Me. Acts 26:18
Yes and He came to Jesus and spend up who He is and all of His heaven in that man didnt He? Matt 3:16
The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
You really should consider Jesus in his ways in the Father.
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:35-36
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
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The [Me] is referring to the One He sent, Christ.
Exactly, He sends His anointing to all who will receieve Him to be anointed ofd God as He sent to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and opens up to Jesus His anointing, Christ in you. You anointed of God. You are not of Christ to be Gods anointed are you?
I'm sending you to open their spiritual eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God , that they may receive forgiveness and release from their sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified (set apart, made holy) by faith in Me. Acts 26:18
Paul got something right, at least he pointed to God instead of himself in that passage. But then you can read of Paul where he sent those out who followed him instead.
The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
Amen I have inherited everything my Father is.
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:35-36
And I am His son, you cant know the Father at all least you are His son.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
I'm sending you to open their spiritual eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God , that they may receive forgiveness and release from their sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified (set apart, made holy) by faith in Me. Acts 26:18
Paul got something right, at least he pointed to God instead of himself in that passage. But then you can read of Paul where he sent those out who followed him instead.
Your reading comprehension is nothing to write home about.

Now that faith has come, we are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Your reading comprehension is nothing to write home about.
Understanding comes from God to be anointed of Him and evidently the reason for your confusion in understanding the ways of God that you may be like Him and walk as He walks in His same light instead of that belief that you say Jesus is gnostic.
Now that faith has come, we are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29
Not that faith is come we are exactly as Jesus was in the Father, born again of God Himself as Jesus was in Matt 3:16, he didnt know God either until God opens Himself in Jesus and His heaven. You can read it -- but then to have that faith to believe Matt 3:16 is another matter isn't it? You dont believe that God came to Jesus and reveals in Him who He is is all. To you that is gnostic teachings isn't it?
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Now that faith has come, we are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29
Understanding comes from God ... You dont believe that God came to Jesus and reveals in Him who He is is all. To you that is gnostic teachings isn't it?
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—1 Cor 1:30
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—1 Cor 1:30
Actually I am of Christ the same way Jesus was of Christ, he was anointed of God as well wasn't he? And I have receieved from God His wisdom just as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 no different at all. You cant know God at all without Him. manifest in you as well as He did in Jesus. You can read it in Matt 3:16 how that happened in Jesus and in me.

You really should listen to the message Jesus brought, Paul has lead you astray.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
It is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. Acts 13:26
Actually I am of Christ the same way Jesus was of Christ, he was anointed of God as well wasn't he? And I have receieved from God His wisdom just as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 no different at all. You cant know God at all without Him. manifest in you as well as He did in Jesus. You can read it in Matt 3:16 how that happened in Jesus and in me.
You mean the same one that Peter proclaimed and you ignore.

Of this salvation the holy men prophesied of the grace that would come to you, the Spirit of Christ who was in them testified of the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’Acts 13:31-33
You really should listen to the message Jesus brought, Paul has lead you astray.
Because faith comes by hearing the word, the gospel of Christ. Rom 10:17

Through Christ you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, ...
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth...
This is the word, the glad tidings, the good news we preached to you. 1 Peter 1:18-25

How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, first spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
God also bearing witness...Heb 2:2-4 ...that we are children of God in Christ; Rom 8:16.
 
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Gary Mac

Well-known member
It is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. Acts 13:26

You mean the same one that Peter proclaimed and you ignore.
Na' the one God sent to lead you to Him as well that ye MIGHT be saved, for he didnt come to save you but that you might be saved IF, IF, IF, you will follow him to the Father who does the saving instead of rules and regulation where Paul has you spellbound and far from Christ but close to Paul instead.
Of this salvation the holy men prophesied of the grace that would come to you, the Spirit of Christ who was in them testified of the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11
That is what I keep trying to tell you. The one at your door this day will come to you and if any man let Him in He will come to you and sup with and be in you as well as He was in Jesus, Jesus opens his door to Him in Matt 3:16.
He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’Acts 13:31-33
I am His son begotten of God. You are supposed to be as well.
Because faith comes by hearing the word, the gospel of Christ. Rom 10:17
Hearing comes by God Himself, by having the same mind of the Father. You cant hear Him at all without He be in you and you ib Him as one to have His same mind, the mind of. Christ, anointed of God.
Through Christ you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, ...
No through God manifest in me I am that person of Christ He demands of us all if we are to be of Him.
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth...
And truth is, either you have the mind of Christ as Jesus did or you dont.
This is the word, the glad tidings, the good news we preached to you. 1 Peter 1:18-25
The good news is receiving from God that what Jesus receieved from Him in Matt 3:16 myself. That would be good news for you to if you would follow Jesus instead of what these others testified from their own perspective about Him.
How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, first spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
God also bearing witness...Heb 2:2-4 ...that we are children of God in Christ; Rom 8:16.
A child of God, born of God, as Jesus was born of God to be like the Father is Gods only salvation. Most seem to have escaped His salvation to be like Him and perfect as He is perfect but most follow Paul as a sinner instead to Jesus in righteousness and without sin.
That is why I follow Jesus way for me.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Na' the one God sent to lead you to Him
Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation is found in no one else, Acts 4:11-12
That is what I keep trying to tell you. The good news is ...receiving Jesus
As you come to him, the living Stone—chosen by God and precious to him...
—That you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 1 Peter 2
Most seem to have escaped His salvation to be like Him
From the Sovereign Lord comes escape from death. Ps 68:20
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected,
Actually Gods Spirit in man is the corner stone for Gods church, Christ in you. But that doesnt seem to be with most. .
which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation is found in no one else, Acts 4:11-12
God is the only one who can save you from sin, He is the One who takes away the sins of this world and Jesus tries to lead people to His place for salvation as he received from God himself in Matt 3:16 where God opens to him who He is.
As you come to him, the living Stone—chosen by God and precious to him...
Yes and most cant relate to coining to Him and the same place Jesus came to Him.
—That you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Yes He in me and I inHim are one.
Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 1 Peter 2
And cant be of Him least you are like Him.
From the Sovereign Lord comes escape from death. Ps 68:20
But in death we receive new life the same way Jesus died of the old law of the temple he taught in and walked in that newness of life where God reveals Himself and His heaven in Jesus. Matt 3:16.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Actually Gods Spirit in man is the corner stone for Gods church, Christ in you.

Yes He in me and I inHim are one.

But in death we receive new life
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him. 2 Tim 2
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him. 2 Tim 2
And I do. He in me and I in Him are one just as Jesus was one in Him.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him. 2 Tim 2
And I do. He in me and I in Him are one just as Jesus was one in Him.

It is a lot better to live the scriptures than it is to just be able to quote it.
And we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ through whom we have eternal life. 1 John 5:20
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him. 2 Tim 2

And we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ through whom we have eternal life. 1 John 5:20
Yes and walk as He walks instead how others walk such as Paul as the sinner.

You are not getting the message of Christ, you are getting the message of Paul instead.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him. 2 Tim 2
Gary Mac said:
And I do. He in me and I in Him are one just as Jesus was one in Him.

It is a lot better to live the scriptures than it is to just be able to quote it.
And we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ through whom we have eternal life. 1 John 5:2
You are not getting the message of Christ, you are getting the message of Paul instead.
Through Christ we believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory;
This is the word which by the gospel was preached to you. 1 Peter 1:18-25
 

Josheb

Well-known member
Some members here have been questioning my recent conversion to Christianity from atheism, and since I realize that my answer to that question is based in apologetics, I think it is appropriate that I conjoin the two matters.

I've been watching Christian apologists debate atheists on YouTube for years, and generally I have concluded that those debates are either draws or the atheist(s) have won them. I've also read books written by apologists and books written by atheists, and I have almost always agreed with the atheists' conclusions and have disagreed with the apologists' conclusions. It appeared to me at least that Christian truth claims are very questionable, and the truth claims of atheists are at least unrefuted, so the logical thing to do was to remain an atheist.
I will respectfully suggest that is solely a matter of confirmation bias. A more accurate and objective appraisal would be that theists and atheists look at exactly the same evidence and draw different conclusions. I will also recommend you learn presuppositional apologetics because underlying the atheist apologetic is a belief science can or does disprove the existence of God but since science - by definition - is limited solely to that which is observable in the natural world it is always and everywhere insufficient for the task of proving or disproving any claim of an externally-existing Creator God.

Honest atheists acknowledge that fact.

Everything that ensues after that acknowledgment is Kabuki Theater. Sadly, the problem then becomes one of Christians collaborating with a presuppositional error (either knowingly or in ignorance) and thereby misleading everyone else. The debates are good for weighing the veracity of various evidence and various points of view but the NEVER have much to do with proving the existence of God.
That situation changed about a year ago when I decided to debate some atheists playing "God's advocate." I hoped that doing so would help me to overcome my bias, and did it ever! I discovered that if I make a good-faith effort to defend Christianity against the criticisms of atheists using sound reasoning, then the fallacies and/or factual errors in many of the popular arguments against Christianity are exposed. For example, one atheist said he doubted the truth of Christianity because there are other religions in the world. I easily refuted that argument by pointing out that different competing religions can easily result from some people getting their theology wrong!

Now, refuting objections to Christianity does not really establish its truth, and I realized that I needed at least one good reason to conclude the truth of Christianity or its utility. The Christian God can act as a basis for why anything exists and as a "template" of the good people we should be. I realized those reasons were good enough for me, and here I am on "the other side."

Questions and comments are welcome.
Hmmmmm...... Logic can get us a long, long, long way to disproving the existence of some religions' gods, BUT no logic, no science can address the experiential substance of Christianity other than to treat it as subjective and therefore meaningless relevant to the "debate."

In the first point, we necessarily understand any and all gods existing solely within the limits of time and space is not - by definition - an omni-attributed God. That being, whatever else s/he/it may or may not be it is not and cannot possibly be omni-potent, omniscient, nor omni-present because that god is limited - limited by the limits of time and space (or singularity. A god that exists solely within the singularity it supposedly created is a contradiction in terms. That god can be unilaterally discarded out of hand. We humans, whether theist or non-theist, can do that with most religions. It is incorrect to think all religions are logically equal or veracious regarding their own self-made claims.

As to the second point, If God actually rent the fabric of time and space to make Himself known to you, Unknown Soldier, then you know something not a single atheist knows, something not a single atheist can argue for or against, and something that does not need an apologetic. You know.




If you haven't done so already then let me recommend you read Francis Schaeffer's trilogy. It's a good introduction to the presuppositional approach to apologetics and the history of how we humans got away from the Judeo-Christian worldview and into the post-postmodern way of thinking. If you'll promise to read it and you live in the continental US, then I will pay for the book and have Amazon ship it general delivery to a post-office in your locale. Seriously. Once you've read Schaeffer, if you found the presuppositional approach worth better understanding then I recommend the theologians Cornelius Van Til and Gordon Clark.



Lastly, the best apologetics is a life well lived. If Jesus has not made a difference....... If the claims aren't livable...... If the differences are not observable..... Against these things there is no debate. The problem is all of us Christians are working out these challenges imperfectly.

If God has seen fit to rend the fabric of time and space to make Himself known to you then be the apologetic.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
I will respectfully suggest that is solely a matter of confirmation bias. A more accurate and objective appraisal would be that theists and atheists look at exactly the same evidence and draw different conclusions. I will also recommend you learn presuppositional apologetics because underlying the atheist apologetic is a belief science can or does disprove the existence of God but since science - by definition - is limited solely to that which is observable in the natural world it is always and everywhere insufficient for the task of proving or disproving any claim of an externally-existing Creator God.

Honest atheists acknowledge that fact.

Everything that ensues after that acknowledgment is Kabuki Theater. Sadly, the problem then becomes one of Christians collaborating with a presuppositional error (either knowingly or in ignorance) and thereby misleading everyone else. The debates are good for weighing the veracity of various evidence and various points of view but the NEVER have much to do with proving the existence of God.

Hmmmmm...... Logic can get us a long, long, long way to disproving the existence of some religions' gods, BUT no logic, no science can address the experiential substance of Christianity other than to treat it as subjective and therefore meaningless relevant to the "debate."

In the first point, we necessarily understand any and all gods existing solely within the limits of time and space is not - by definition - an omni-attributed God. That being, whatever else s/he/it may or may not be it is not and cannot possibly be omni-potent, omniscient, nor omni-present because that god is limited - limited by the limits of time and space (or singularity. A god that exists solely within the singularity it supposedly created is a contradiction in terms. That god can be unilaterally discarded out of hand. We humans, whether theist or non-theist, can do that with most religions. It is incorrect to think all religions are logically equal or veracious regarding their own self-made claims.

As to the second point, If God actually rent the fabric of time and space to make Himself known to you, Unknown Soldier, then you know something not a single atheist knows, something not a single atheist can argue for or against, and something that does not need an apologetic. You know.




If you haven't done so already then let me recommend you read Francis Schaeffer's trilogy. It's a good introduction to the presuppositional approach to apologetics and the history of how we humans got away from the Judeo-Christian worldview and into the post-postmodern way of thinking. If you'll promise to read it and you live in the continental US, then I will pay for the book and have Amazon ship it general delivery to a post-office in your locale. Seriously. Once you've read Schaeffer, if you found the presuppositional approach worth better understanding then I recommend the theologians Cornelius Van Til and Gordon Clark.



Lastly, the best apologetics is a life well lived. If Jesus has not made a difference....... If the claims aren't livable...... If the differences are not observable..... Against these things there is no debate. The problem is all of us Christians are working out these challenges imperfectly.

If God has seen fit to rend the fabric of time and space to make Himself known to you then be the apologetic.
Atheists are no different for our church denominations. These churches make up their own rules for their beliefs in a god just as an atheists does the same. Just different laws to govern their beliefs for a god.

Beliefs are not real, beliefs has no tangible manifestations, beliefs are speculation spawned from ignorance from lack in having from the author His same mind to be like Him and perfect even as your Father unshaven is perfect. WQHich can only come by God Himself open to you who He is by Him manifesting Himself in you.

All of you guys and atheists are not much different from one another, for you all have made your own rules to regulate your beliefs for a god.

The only truth and is not a belief is when you let God Himself, manifest Himself, reveal Himself, have His revelation, His same mind and walk in it as He walks in it. Anything less than is only a belief with no =thing to back it up except the rules someone made to regulate that belief.

The Catholic do it, the Mormons do it, the Baptists do it, the Pentecostals do it, all these beliefs systems do it. and atheism is a belief system for a god just like these has done.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Beliefs are not real, beliefs has no tangible manifestations, beliefs are speculation spawned from ignorance...
Without faith it is impossible to walk with God, please God for whoever comes near to God must necessarily believe
that God exists and that He rewards those who seek Him. Heb 11:6
The only truth and is not a belief is when you let God Himself, manifest Himself, reveal Himself,
They did not believe in God [they did not trust in Him], And doubted His salvation; Ps 78:22
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: 2 Tim 3:5
Anything less than is only a belief with no =thing to back it up except the rules someone made to regulate that belief.
And he that doubts is damned if he partakes, for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Rom 14:23
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Without faith it is impossible to walk with God, please God for whoever comes near to God must necessarily believe
that God exists and that He rewards those who seek Him. Heb 11:6

They did not believe in God [they did not trust in Him], And doubted His salvation; Ps 78:22
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: 2 Tim 3:5

And he that doubts is damned if he partakes, for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Rom 14:23
Actually all who has not received God where He Himself comes and manifests Himself in you has no faith on Him at all that you may know Him as He manifested Himself in Jesus as well how he came to know God. see Matt 3:16.
 
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