My two week binge on Calvary Chapel

[shnarkle]

I had just gotten out of the hospital, and was feeling like they should have sent me to the morgue instead. it was the middle of August with 100% humidity and no air conditioning. The barge I had been living on for the past five years was tied to some trees on a busted levy on the Sacramento delta. I would occasionally jump into the slough to cool off during the night only to gain a few winks of twilight sleep before resuming my tossing and turning.

Suddenly there was a thud in the pit of my chest like the fattest open string on a bass guitar. The pitch black darkness didn't help matters, and I lay there frozen for what seemed like an eternity. I didn't know if the grim reaper was hovering over me waiting for some signs of life to make sure he had the right address or perhaps there was some heroin addict looking to slit my throat before rummaging through my things for a few bucks to contribute to his next fix.

A light began to shine in the distance. As it increased in brightness and intensity, I could see that there was no one in the room. The light then made its way down the hallway, and I along with it to see if the bathroom, the other bedroom and the main salon were also empty of any intruders. I checked the door. It was latched, but not locked so that left only the possibility of the grim reaper or some other demonic entity tormenting my troubled soul.

I later learned that someone had been on the run from the law, and a sheriff's boat had been out with four HUGE stadium type flood lights searching the waterfront for him. As I stood in the darkness again. I fumbled around for something to light the room, and found an old black and white 12 volt tv I had stashed in the closet of the second bedroom. I had a few batteries keeping another boat afloat, but I had one available to power up this tv. It was around midnight and the only channel that had a signal was now announcing "The Shepherd's Chapel with your host, Pastor Arnold Murray". He welcomed his viewing audience and began reading from the bible.

An hour later the show was over, but then, lo and behold, it was yet another episode, and then another and another. Six full hours of the Shepherd's Chapel. After the last episode had aired, I went back to sleep for a few hours before going for a walk. I began to frequent church services, and bible study groups, while watching The Shepherd's Chapel every night for the next two weeks.

I got so hooked on Pastor Arnold Murray's glowing recommendations for The Companion Bible that I bought a copy for myself along with a Strong's Concordance. I still have that tattered bible along with an new large print edition which in an attempt to preserve, I try not to move from my desk.

Contrary to popular opinion, a tattered bible is not a sign of piety.

It is the tell-tale sign of a tormented mind.

 

[StopLookListen]

I liked your vivid writing.

 

[Nic]

I had just gotten out of the hospital, and was feeling like they should have sent me to the morgue instead. it was the middle of August with 100% humidity and no air conditioning. The barge I had been living on for the past five years was tied to some trees on a busted levy on the Sacramento delta. I would occasionally jump into the slough to cool off during the night only to gain a few winks of twilight sleep before resuming my tossing and turning.

Suddenly there was a thud in the pit of my chest like the fattest open string on a bass guitar. The pitch black darkness didn't help matters, and I lay there frozen for what seemed like an eternity. I didn't know if the grim reaper was hovering over me waiting for some signs of life to make sure he had the right address or perhaps there was some heroin addict looking to slit my throat before rummaging through my things for a few bucks to contribute to his next fix.

A light began to shine in the distance. As it increased in brightness and intensity, I could see that there was no one in the room. The light then made its way down the hallway, and I along with it to see if the bathroom, the other bedroom and the main salon were also empty of any intruders. I checked the door. It was latched, but not locked so that left only the possibility of the grim reaper or some other demonic entity tormenting my troubled soul.

I later learned that someone had been on the run from the law, and a sheriff's boat had been out with four HUGE stadium type flood lights searching the waterfront for him. As I stood in the darkness again. I fumbled around for something to light the room, and found an old black and white 12 volt tv I had stashed in the closet of the second bedroom. I had a few batteries keeping another boat afloat, but I had one available to power up this tv. It was around midnight and the only channel that had a signal was now announcing "The Shepherd's Chapel with your host, Pastor Arnold Murray". He welcomed his viewing audience and began reading from the bible.

An hour later the show was over, but then, lo and behold, it was yet another episode, and then another and another. Six full hours of the Shepherd's Chapel. After the last episode had aired, I went back to sleep for a few hours before going for a walk. I began to frequent church services, and bible study groups, while watching The Shepherd's Chapel every night for the next two weeks.

I got so hooked on Pastor Arnold Murray's glowing recommendations for The Companion Bible that I bought a copy for myself along with a Strong's Concordance. I still have that tattered bible along with an new large print edition which in an attempt to preserve, I try not to move from my desk.

Contrary to popular opinion, a tattered bible is not a sign of piety.

It is the tell-tale sign of a tormented mind.

Thanks for the backstory.
This sub-forum is Calvary Chapel how does your thread relate to Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel?

Thanks!

 

[shnarkle]

Thanks for the backstory.
This sub-forum is Calvary Chapel how does your thread relate to Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel?

Thanks!

I've never heard of Chuck Smith. The only Calvary Chapel I know of is the one on television with Arnold Murray.

 

[Nic]

I've never heard of Chuck Smith. The only Calvary Chapel I know of is the one on television with Arnold Murray.

You wrote of Shepherd's Chapel in your post, this is the Calvary Chapel forum. The owner Matt Slick was gracious in adding Calvary Chapel as a (non-den) denomination category in the beginnings of the forum. I believe he had a soft spot for them for once fellowshipping with them as did I.
Here's the background on Calvary Chapel.?

History of Calvary Chapel - Calvary Chapel Association

calvarycca.org

At the risk of backlash for all practical purposes Calvary Chapel is a Baptist church with charisma leanings which is more or less orthodox minus the charisma stuff. Arnold Murray ministry is on the fringe, if that, where orthodoxy is concerned. Heterodox is more apt and maybe even a bit gracious.

 

[shnarkle]

You wrote of Shepherd's Chapel in your post,

Oh, okay. I see what I did there. My bad. I guess I pulled one of those "Rosanna, Rosanna, Dana" blunders. I would delete it, but I don't know how. The edit button is gone as well

 

[Nic]

Oh, okay. I see what I did there. My bad. I guess I pulled one of those "Rosanna, Rosanna, Dana" blunders. I would delete it, but I don't know how. The edit button is gone as well

???

 

[Bonnie]

Oh, okay. I see what I did there. My bad. I guess I pulled one of those "Rosanna, Rosanna, Dana" blunders. I would delete it, but I don't know how. The edit button is gone as well

you can flag the OP and ask a mod to delete it or move it.

 

[shnarkle]

you can flag the OP and ask a mod to delete it or move it.

Thanks. I'll try that.

 

[riecher]

Interesting thoughts. I liked it too.

 

[SteveB]

I had just gotten out of the hospital, and was feeling like they should have sent me to the morgue instead. it was the middle of August with 100% humidity and no air conditioning. The barge I had been living on for the past five years was tied to some trees on a busted levy on the Sacramento delta. I would occasionally jump into the slough to cool off during the night only to gain a few winks of twilight sleep before resuming my tossing and turning.

Suddenly there was a thud in the pit of my chest like the fattest open string on a bass guitar. The pitch black darkness didn't help matters, and I lay there frozen for what seemed like an eternity. I didn't know if the grim reaper was hovering over me waiting for some signs of life to make sure he had the right address or perhaps there was some heroin addict looking to slit my throat before rummaging through my things for a few bucks to contribute to his next fix.

A light began to shine in the distance. As it increased in brightness and intensity, I could see that there was no one in the room. The light then made its way down the hallway, and I along with it to see if the bathroom, the other bedroom and the main salon were also empty of any intruders. I checked the door. It was latched, but not locked so that left only the possibility of the grim reaper or some other demonic entity tormenting my troubled soul.

I later learned that someone had been on the run from the law, and a sheriff's boat had been out with four HUGE stadium type flood lights searching the waterfront for him. As I stood in the darkness again. I fumbled around for something to light the room, and found an old black and white 12 volt tv I had stashed in the closet of the second bedroom. I had a few batteries keeping another boat afloat, but I had one available to power up this tv. It was around midnight and the only channel that had a signal was now announcing "The Shepherd's Chapel with your host, Pastor Arnold Murray". He welcomed his viewing audience and began reading from the bible.

An hour later the show was over, but then, lo and behold, it was yet another episode, and then another and another. Six full hours of the Shepherd's Chapel. After the last episode had aired, I went back to sleep for a few hours before going for a walk. I began to frequent church services, and bible study groups, while watching The Shepherd's Chapel every night for the next two weeks.

I got so hooked on Pastor Arnold Murray's glowing recommendations for The Companion Bible that I bought a copy for myself along with a Strong's Concordance. I still have that tattered bible along with an new large print edition which in an attempt to preserve, I try not to move from my desk.

Contrary to popular opinion, a tattered bible is not a sign of piety.

It is the tell-tale sign of a tormented mind.

So, does this mean that you just went on a binge, got connected for two weeks, spent money on a bible, and then it's all just vanished to nothing?

As a former Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa attendee (moved out of the region, and now attend another Calvary Chapel), I wouldn't worry too much about other's comments about Shepherd's chapel.
Looking at the statement of faith, it looks like it's bible teaching church. Probably a major culture shock, because they're in Arkansas, and you're in the Sacramento Delta.

Are you aware that there are a number of Calvary Chapel churches there not far from the Delta?

Church Finder - Calvary Chapel

calvarychapel.com

I think you'll find something more culturally familiar to you.


As you can see.... Jesus people are all over.

I know the thing I like about the Calvary chapels I've attended is that they seek to make it about Jesus, and not cultural religion. I.e., they're not going to haggle you about catholicism, lutheranism, etc....
It's allowed me to focus on learning to follow Jesus, and not be caught up in whether I'm a methodist, catholic, etc....
This has opened the door for me to strip away all the denominationalisms that I've experienced in my life.
Dust off your bible, pull up a seat, and have a talk with God. He'd love to hear from you.
and according to Isaiah 54:13, and Matthew 11:28-30--- God, and Jesus are in the teaching business. Not as some tv preacher, but as a friend, who'd love to help you work things out.

 

[Hark]

I know the thing I like about the Calvary chapels I've attended is that they seek to make it about Jesus, and not cultural religion. I.e., they're not going to haggle you about catholicism, lutheranism, etc....
It's allowed me to focus on learning to follow Jesus, and not be caught up in whether I'm a methodist, catholic, etc....
This has opened the door for me to strip away all the denominationalisms that I've experienced in my life.
Dust off your bible, pull up a seat, and have a talk with God. He'd love to hear from you.
and according to Isaiah 54:13, and Matthew 11:28-30--- God, and Jesus are in the teaching business. Not as some tv preacher, but as a friend, who'd love to help you work things out.

Question; is this article the reason why they will not haggle you about Catholicism and Lutheranism and etc. as not exposing dead works in them?

Fed up with false teaching: Calvary Chapel church says “So Long” to the CC Association

I just wonder how you strip away all the denominationalism unless you address, expose, and strip away the dead works from among them by His words.

Also, when a believer or a church speaks of their commitments, then they are speaking about himself or themselves for why his and their testimony are not true. This is why commitment or a promise or any man made bondage is not something a believer should make when He wants us to rest in The New Covenant to us that He will do it and all He asks from us is to believe in Jesus Christ as He will finish His work in us to His glory.

A believer's or a church's commitment speaks of self.

A believer's faith or a church's faith speaks of Jesus Christ.

A believer nor a church cannot do both, because for Him to increase, we must decrease.

The religious world & Freemasons can only see a man's commitment & they identify with it, and they give that credit & glory to men that keeps it. That is why commitment is of the commandments of men for why Jesus would say that anyone that does that, worship Him in vain.

If we deny ourselves as able to keep that commitment, pick up the cross daily as one depending on Him entirely to live by faith in Him alone, then we can see ourselves following Him by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd. That is what He is asking us to do when He said "Follow Me". He is asking us to trust Him to help us to follow Him as our Good Shepherd.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

If you are in a dark cave, and someone comes along to offer to guide you out, you are basically trusting that person to do it...

Here we are in this valley of death and yet Jesus Christ is with us and in us always, asking us to guide us thru it & out to the Home above.

That is why it is simply written that the just shall live by faith.

 

[SteveB]

Question; is this article the reason why they will not haggle you about Catholicism and Lutheranism and etc. as not exposing dead works in them?

Fed up with false teaching: Calvary Chapel church says “So Long” to the CC Association

I have no idea. This is the first I've heard about a church in Appleton, Wisconsin.

The perceived problems with Brian are a long time issue for CC.
That said, Chuck told us that he expected the next pastor to take up the mantle of CCCM to change the format for the way things were being done, following his passing.
I'm not on the inside of CC leadership, so I don't follow the political goings on with them.

https://bereanresearch.org/fed-false-teaching-calvary-chapel-church-says-long-cc-association/

I just wonder how you strip away all the denominationalism unless you address, expose, and strip away the dead works from among them by His words.

Well, why don't you tell us how you strip away all the dead works in your life to set up a framework for further discussion about it.

Also, when a believer or a church speaks of their commitments, then they are speaking about himself or themselves for why his and their testimony are not true. This is why commitment or a promise or any man made bondage is not something a believer should make when He wants us to rest in The New Covenant to us that He will do it and all He asks from us is to believe in Jesus Christ as He will finish His work in us to His glory.

Well, since we're told in Hebrews 12 to place our focus on Jesus, who is the author and finisher of our faith, and when questioned about what John would be doing, Jesus replied--- what's it to you if I decide..... you follow me! John 21.
I'd say that you should stop looking around for other people to follow, and take the responsibility, and make sure that you learn to follow Jesus.

A believer's or a church's commitment speaks of self.

Then follow Jesus.

A believer's faith or a church's faith speaks of Jesus Christ.

Then follow Jesus.

A believer nor a church cannot do both, because for Him to increase, we must decrease.

Then follow Jesus.

The religious world & Freemasons can only see a man's commitment & they identify with it, and they give that credit & glory to men that keeps it. That is why commitment is of the commandments of men for why Jesus would say that anyone that does that, worship Him in vain.

If we deny ourselves as able to keep that commitment, pick up the cross daily as one depending on Him entirely to live by faith in Him alone, then we can see ourselves following Him by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd. That is what He is asking us to do when He said "Follow Me". He is asking us to trust Him to help us to follow Him as our Good Shepherd.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

If you are in a dark cave, and someone comes along to offer to guide you out, you are basically trusting that person to do it...

Here we are in this valley of death and yet Jesus Christ is with us and in us always, asking us to guide us thru it & out to the Home above.

That is why it is simply written that the just shall live by faith.

Indeed.
So follow Jesus.

 

[Hark]

I have no idea. This is the first I've heard about a church in Appleton, Wisconsin.

The perceived problems with Brian are a long time issue for CC.
That said, Chuck told us that he expected the next pastor to take up the mantle of CCCM to change the format for the way things were being done, following his passing.
I'm not on the inside of CC leadership, so I don't follow the political goings on with them.

https://bereanresearch.org/fed-false-teaching-calvary-chapel-church-says-long-cc-association/

Okay.

Well, why don't you tell us how you strip away all the dead works in your life to set up a framework for further discussion about it.

I believe I stated it. But to be clearer still, I trust Jesus Christ to be my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him by helping me to understand His words and apply His words by His grace & His help.

Well, since we're told in Hebrews 12 to place our focus on Jesus, who is the author and finisher of our faith, and when questioned about what John would be doing, Jesus replied--- what's it to you if I decide..... you follow me! John 21.
I'd say that you should stop looking around for other people to follow, and take the responsibility, and make sure that you learn to follow Jesus.

By His grace & by His help, we are to be a light unto the world & because of the latter days, a light to other saved believers when faith is hard to find. More often times than not, believers striving to keep their commitment to Christ are setting the bad example as if that is how you follow Him by doing the best you can in keeping that commitment. That is why I point to faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.

Then follow Jesus.

Then follow Jesus.

Then follow Jesus.

Indeed.
So follow Jesus.

But how do I follow Him? By trusting Him as my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him. By testifying of my faith in Jesus Christ for that, I am resting in Him to help me to follow Him and He does a better job than my trying to do the best I can in keeping that commitment to follow Him.

That is why it is important to ask Jesus to set us free from all commitments, promises, and man made bondages that are His to keep as we should be free from all other man made bondages to men to keep since it is evil to make plans for tomorrow, James 4:13-17

No one is going to see a believer's faith in Jesus Christ for all things if he is speaking of his commitment to Him. Jesus Christ is in the believers as He was for me, and He will help the believer every time he calls on Him for help, but the trick here is to realize that we are to rely on Him all the time for following Him. So as long as that commitment is there, as I was under it, I was like a yo yo going back & forth, thinking I should show my appreciation for helping me and go back to doing the best I can in keeping that commitment to Christ.

He finally set me free from keeping that commitment to rest in Him all the time for following Him by my faith in Him as my Good Shepherd alone.

 

[SteveB]

Okay.

I believe I stated it. But to be clearer still, I trust Jesus Christ to be my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him by helping me to understand His words and apply His words by His grace & His help.

Ok. And what does this look like to you?

By His grace & by His help, we are to be a light unto the world & because of the latter days, a light to other saved believers when faith is hard to find.

Ok, and what does Grace do for the believers?

More often times than not, believers striving to keep their commitment to Christ are setting the bad example as if that is how you follow Him by doing the best you can in keeping that commitment.

ok.
please elaborate.

That is why I point to faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.

And what is entailed in following Jesus?

But how do I follow Him?
By trusting Him as my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him.

Ok. How does this work itself out? Do you have a basis for what this looks like and what it means?

By testifying of my faith in Jesus Christ for that, I am resting in Him to help me to follow Him and He does a better job than my trying to do the best I can in keeping that commitment to follow Him.

Ok, and what is your basis for the outworkings of this?

That is why it is important to ask Jesus to set us free from all commitments, promises, and man made bondages that are His to keep as we should be free from all other man made bondages to men to keep since it is evil to make plans for tomorrow, James 4:13-17

And how do you know which things are man-made and which are biblical commitments?

No one is going to see a believer's faith in Jesus Christ for all things if he is speaking of his commitment to Him. Jesus Christ is in the believers as He was for me, and He will help the believer every time he calls on Him for help, but the trick here is to realize that we are to rely on Him all the time for following Him. So as long as that commitment is there, as I was under it, I was like a yo yo going back & forth, thinking I should show my appreciation for helping me and go back to doing the best I can in keeping that commitment to Christ.

Ok.
and what is the basis for this, and how is it achieved?

He finally set me free from keeping that commitment to rest in Him all the time for following Him by my faith in Him as my Good Shepherd alone.

Which is worked out, how?

 

[Hark]

Ok. And what does this look like to you?

That you are not following Jesus when you do not see the error of keeping that commitment.

Ok, and what does Grace do for the believers?

Rest in Him for all things.

ok.
please elaborate.

Christians do judge themselves about their sincerity and Christians judge others by their sincerity when they fail in keeping that commitment.

One former church member testified that ever since he made that commitment to Christ, the devil has been after him ever since to break it. He concluded that children should not make a commitment to the Lord for they do not know what they are getting into.

It is not about our sincerity but trusting Him in how sincere He is to help us to follow Him; as in no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak; therefore what is impossible for man is possible for God. Is our confidence is in Him to finish or is our confidence is in our flesh to finish?

It is a double-minded state that we need His help to see to know that if we could not save ourselves, then nor is it in our power to follow Him. The power is of Christ and the exercise of that power is by faith in Him. not by resorting to our own power by keeping a commitment.

And what is entailed in following Jesus?

Ok. How does this work itself out? Do you have a basis for what this looks like and what it means?

Deny yourself as being able to follow Him, looking to Him daily as our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin in following Him

Ok, and what is your basis for the outworkings of this?

And how do you know which things are man-made and which are biblical commitments?

If circumcision is the smallest letter of the law, and you have to do the whole law, then where do you think making a vow or a promise or a commitment is under the law? It is the biggest letter of the law. Then believers have to do the whole law.

Numbers 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

That means God cannot help that believer keep his or her commitment, let alone their vows.

Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. 5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. 6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?

This is warning all those who vow to pay it in full and not leave it undone. The vow is the work of the vower's hand for why God has no part in it.

That is why Jesus warned against it because we cannot make one hair whote or black; only God can do His work in us so where is our faith?

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

2 Corinthians 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Ok.
and what is the basis for this, and how is it achieved?


Which is worked out, how?

If we consider with Him what defiles a man, then we need His help to even trust Him to to enable us to abide in His word.

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man:

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

So there is unrighteousness in speaking of ourselves in seeking our own glory. We must decrease so that He may increase. Knowing this is one thing, but how is by trusting Him to help us to do this to testify of Him in seeking His glory for that is what His disciples does.

This is what the Holy Spirt is sent to do in us thru us per John 15:26-27 & that is to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) & that includes worship. The Holy Spirit would not draw attention to Himself in worship to take our eyes off of the Son and that is why the judgment over believers is to only honor the Son in worship if we wish to honor the Father in worship. John 5:22-23 Only the spirits of the antichrist would take our eyes off of the Son in worship. So the Holy Spirit will decrease also so that the Son may increase in worship and by Him, God the Father is glorified.

That too, is another iniquity running amok in churches for why the way has been broadened ( Matthew 7:13-27 ) for how believers are falling in these movements of the spirit, and the solution is to narrow the ay back to the Son in worship ( Luke 13:24-30 )

 

[SteveB]

That you are not following Jesus when you do not see the error of keeping that commitment.

So, your "I believe I stated it. But to be clearer still, I trust Jesus Christ to be my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him by helping me to understand His words and apply His words by His grace & His help."
looks to you that someone with whom you have no acquaintance beyond a single interaction on the internet is not following Jesus.
That sounds rather presumptuous of you.

Why would I take your inexperiences seriously here?

Rest in Him for all things.

And how do you know that you are in fact resting in him for all things?
What evidence do others have to be able to observe that you are in fact resting in him, in all things?

Christians do judge themselves about their sincerity and Christians judge others by their sincerity when they fail in keeping that commitment.

So, by what means am I able to judge that you are in fact sincerely resting in Jesus in all things?

One former church member testified that ever since he made that commitment to Christ, the devil has been after him ever since to break it. He concluded that children should not make a commitment to the Lord for they do not know what they are getting into.

And?
We're told that in Ephesians 6:10-18, and James, and 1 Peter 5.

It is not about our sincerity but trusting Him in how sincere He is to help us to follow Him; as in no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak; therefore what is impossible for man is possible for God. Is our confidence is in Him to finish or is our confidence is in our flesh to finish?

Yet you just said that it's about our sincerity ---- .....by their sincerity when they fail in......

So, which is it?

It is a double-minded state that we need His help to see to know that if we could not save ourselves, then nor is it in our power to follow Him. The power is of Christ and the exercise of that power is by faith in Him. not by resorting to our own power by keeping a commitment.

From what I'm reading above here, you're dealing with this very thing. First it's about your sincerity, then it's not, and instead it's about the sincerity of Jesus.

Deny yourself as being able to follow Him, looking to Him daily as our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin in following Him

Ok. And how would this be achieved? are there passages which describe how I could do that?

If circumcision is the smallest letter of the law, and you have to do the whole law, then where do you think making a vow or a promise or a commitment is under the law? It is the biggest letter of the law. Then believers have to do the whole law.

Ironically, Paul tells us in Romans 3:31 that "by faith, we establish the law."
He further said in Romans 8 that the only way to keep the ordinance of the law is by walking in the Spirit, which can only be done by thinking on spiritual things. Rom. 8:4-8.

Numbers 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

So, are you an oath maker?
Solomon warned us, as did Jesus, about this.
Jesus told us--- don't make an oath. Let your yes be yes, and your no be no.
Solomon said---
Ecc 5:1 NKJV - Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to give the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil.
Ecc 5:2 NKJV - Do not be rash with your mouth, And let not your heart utter anything hastily before God. For God [is] in heaven, and you on earth; Therefore let your words be few.

He warned us in Proverbs 20 ---
Pro 20:24 NKJV - A man's steps [are] of the LORD; How then can a man understand his own way?
Pro 20:25 NKJV - [It is] a snare for a man to devote rashly [something as] holy, And afterward to reconsider [his] vows.

That means God cannot help that believer keep his or her commitment, let alone their vows.

So, you think vows are a good thing?
What happens when you fail? Is there no means of reconciliation with God?

Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. 5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. 6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?

This is warning all those who vow to pay it in full and not leave it undone. The vow is the work of the vower's hand for why God has no part in it.

That is why Jesus warned against it because we cannot make one hair whote or black; only God can do His work in us so where is our faith?

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Indeed. so how do you reconcile when you fail?

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Excellent passage.
So, how does one "continue in the Spirit" to ensure they don't get tripped up by the flesh?

2 Corinthians 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

hmm...... what's the connection here?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Another great passage!
So, how does one "stand fast in the liberty," with which Christ has freed us?
My parents had me circumcised as a child, so I'm not trusting in that as my means of righteousness. Indeed, I didn't even know what it was until several years after I became a follower of Jesus.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Ah.... another fantastic passage. Ties back to Psalm 138:8---- YHVH will perfect that which concerns me.

 

[SteveB]

If we consider with Him what defiles a man, then we need His help to even trust Him to to enable us to abide in His word.

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man:

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

So there is unrighteousness in speaking of ourselves in seeking our own glory. We must decrease so that He may increase. Knowing this is one thing, but how is by trusting Him to help us to do this to testify of Him in seeking His glory for that is what His disciples does.

This is what the Holy Spirt is sent to do in us thru us per John 15:26-27 & that is to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) & that includes worship. The Holy Spirit would not draw attention to Himself in worship to take our eyes off of the Son and that is why the judgment over believers is to only honor the Son in worship if we wish to honor the Father in worship. John 5:22-23 Only the spirits of the antichrist would take our eyes off of the Son in worship. So the Holy Spirit will decrease also so that the Son may increase in worship and by Him, God the Father is glorified.

All fantastic passages, I see nothing which shows me how to follow Jesus.
In fact, you appear to be throwing out there a number of disconnected, unrelated passages to my questions.
In fact, I see nothing at all that's even remotely dealing with what I said was why I liked Calvary Chapel.

That too, is another iniquity running amok in churches for why the way has been broadened ( Matthew 7:13-27 ) for how believers are falling in these movements of the spirit, and the solution is to narrow the ay back to the Son in worship ( Luke 13:24-30 )

You know what I do see?
Someone who has placed a lot of their own ideas about the bible, and what following Jesus entails, without any idea of who they're talking to.

You've posted some really great ideas, and I don't disagree with the ideas/passages themselves.
You never explained, or described how someone rests in Christ.
You never explained/described how someone can make sure they walk in the liberty of Christ.
You never explained of described how someone can be freed from their sin, and live a godly life.
You pulled some obscure article which was from some guy I've never even heard of before, and is apparently undated, so I don't know if it's right after Brian took over, or a few years later. It's been over 7 years since Chuck went home to be with Jesus, and Chuck was clear that he expected the new pastor to follow Jesus, in the manner Jesus called him.
So, the article seems to me to be the keystone of your whole series of posts.

And, so that we're clear here--- Paul tells us in 1 Thessalonians 5 to not despise prophecies, but to test all things. To abhor that which is evil, and cling to that which is good.
So, I'm listening to what you have to say, and testing it against the scripture. And right now, you appear to be missing some really important points that I want to delve into.

1 Thess. 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.

Grace and Peace be with you.
In Christ.

 

[Hark]

So, your "I believe I stated it. But to be clearer still, I trust Jesus Christ to be my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him by helping me to understand His words and apply His words by His grace & His help."
looks to you that someone with whom you have no acquaintance beyond a single interaction on the internet is not following Jesus.
That sounds rather presumptuous of you.

The lack of alarm on your part in regards to that church's commitment is why I was sharing my concern.

Why would I take your inexperiences seriously here?

Because you profess your desire to follow Jesus. You repeated the desire for me to follow Jesus.

You seem not to see how His words comes true because by that commitment is the knowledge of sin and by that commitment, Jesus warned us not to do anything by the flesh in regards to our relationship with Him for He will do it.

The fact that you are unmoved by the correction by the scriptures only confirms my concern for you. You have gone through great lengths in your reply to me but if you do not see how my experiences confirms His words, and what He has done for me to bear more fruit, then I have to leave you in His hands.

You keep saying to me "Follow Jesus". I say to you, "Trust Jesus as your Good Shepherd to help you follow Him & your joy may be full."

If you hardly see me saying the same thing as you are saying, then you are not referring to our faith in Jesus Christ.

Our society is built around needless boastful oaths, vows, & promises. The enemy over time, has added marriage vows made by the couple's in adding to God's covenant of marriage and see nothing wrong with it. Society & courtrooms add vows, even swearing on it, and yet God cannot help them tell the whole truth when they are ordered by the judge to answer in a yes or no answer or be held in contempt of court.

Even churches add promises for the office of deacons & elders and that was not the qualification for fulfilling that office in scripture.

Freemasons gets in everywhere as religious men wants to take advantage of the zeal of people in bringing them into bondage in doing the right thing. Making vows does not guarantee anything nor does it help anyone to be good or to do good or otherwise, Jesus died in vain.

Believers have gone astray in Freemason country but Jesus is Lord and will deliver those saints who recognize the snare in being overcharged for the cares of this life and rest in Him so they are ready and willing to go to escape what is coming on the earth when He comes.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[Hark]

All fantastic passages, I see nothing which shows me how to follow Jesus.
In fact, you appear to be throwing out there a number of disconnected, unrelated passages to my questions.
In fact, I see nothing at all that's even remotely dealing with what I said was why I liked Calvary Chapel.

A believer's commitment and a church's commitment is not of Him. We are to follow Him by faith that He will help us to follow him.

You know what I do see?
Someone who has placed a lot of their own ideas about the bible, and what following Jesus entails, without any idea of who they're talking to.

Just sharing as He enables me of what He has done for me of what I could not have done by keeping a commitment or any other man made bondage.

So, I'm listening to what you have to say, and testing it against the scripture. And right now, you appear to be missing some really important points that I want to delve into.

I testify that I cannot convince you since it is on God to cause the increase. So ask Jesus about what I have shared and how I had applied His words by His grace & by His help, because this is about how we follow Him; not by the deeds of the law of doing the best we can in keeping that commitment but by faith in Jesus Christ to finish what He has started in us. That is how we rest in Him when we cease from our works.

I speak no more of that commitment to Jesus Christ but speak of my faith in Jesus Christ of His commitment to me per the New Covenant that is not lacking anything that He needs something from me as if He has confidence in me to do something other than to believe in Him for everything.

And our believing in Him is a work of God also. See John 3:18-21 & John 6:44 & Matthew 11:25-27

There is no way any man can speak of his commitment to God whereas he is not glorified for keeping it; thus it is not of faith nor of Him at all.