Mysterious Ruins

J regia

Well-known member
Obviously? Why obviously? Is any mention made of the river?
If the story is based on an actual event, then that is the only feasible explanation, given that the KJV says that the flood was 15 cubits high and drained away like any other similar flood before and since.
 

Tiburon

Member
If the story is based on an actual event, then that is the only feasible explanation, given that the KJV says that the flood was 15 cubits high and drained away like any other similar flood before and since.
You're reading into the story details that are not there. The flood being 15 cubits above the mountain tops is just as feasible. Especially since we are talking about a story which has a very loose relationship with reality.
 

J regia

Well-known member
You're reading into the story details that are not there. The flood being 15 cubits above the mountain tops is just as feasible. Especially since we are talking about a story which has a very loose relationship with reality.
Doesn't change the fact that the KJV clearly says that the flood height was 15 cubits, and DOES NOT say that the highest hills or mountains were covered by 15 cubits.
 

Tiburon

Member
Doesn't change the fact that the KJV clearly says that the flood height was 15 cubits, and DOES NOT say that the highest hills or mountains were covered by 15 cubits.
Genesis
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

So either the waters prevailed 15 cubits above the mountains or the highest mountain was less that 15 cubits high.
 

J regia

Well-known member
Genesis
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

So either the waters prevailed 15 cubits above the mountains or the highest mountain was less that 15 cubits high.
Since the bible clearly says that the flood was 15 cubits high, then the highest hills/mountains in the flooded area were therefore less than 15 cubits higher than the normal water level, given that it clearly doesn't say that the flood covered the highest hills by 15 cubits.
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
A great flood ravaged the valley of China. All the farm land was inundated. All the towns and cities were swept away. The survivors huddled in the high hills. Soaked by rain, and beaten by wind, they grew hungry. A scholar named Yu, took up grass, and wove a large basket, which he filled with rocks and soil. He set the basket in the water, and the current swept it away. So he made another basket, and ropes. He secured the basket so the current could not carry it away. And it stood. The people marveled, and soon joined in helping Yu. In time a great levy was built.
Yu tamed the great flood, and all the people declared hm the first true emperor. But it was by his leading and directing of the whole of the people, that Yu was able save China. And woe to he who forgets that the greatest wealth of the land is not in gold and silver... but in people.
 

Tiburon

Member
Since the bible clearly says that the flood was 15 cubits high, then the highest hills/mountains in the flooded area were therefore less than 15 cubits higher than the normal water level, given that it clearly doesn't say that the flood covered the highest hills by 15 cubits.
Where are you getting this 'normal water level' from. If you want to be pedantic then the Bible makes no mention of 'normal water level'.
 

J regia

Well-known member
Where are you getting this 'normal water level' from. If you want to be pedantic then the Bible makes no mention of 'normal water level'.
Presumably the author of the story measured the level of the water with a river height gauge as shown in the photo of various flood heights of a nearby river. Or perhaps he/she simply marked the height of the flood on a nearby tree.
 
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J regia

Well-known member
Presumably! That is the point. you are presuming a lot of things that are not in evidence.
So how else would the author have measured the flood height?
And what relevance is it to the fact that the KJV and Hebrew bible clearly say that the flood height was 15 cubits?
Or do you just want to be pedantic?

Or is that story just an imaginative fantasy?
 
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Tiburon

Member
So how else would the author have measured the flood height?
And what relevance is it to the fact that the KJV and Hebrew bible clearly say that the flood height was 15 cubits?
Or do you just want to be pedantic?

Or is that story just an imaginative fantasy?
Yes. Likely copied from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
 

Challenger007

New Member
So how else would the author have measured the flood height?
And what relevance is it to the fact that the KJV and Hebrew bible clearly say that the flood height was 15 cubits?
Or do you just want to be pedantic?

Or is that story just an imaginative fantasy?

All these concepts are very relative, because in the times described in the Bible, there were very relative measures. And the Bible was not written by the scientists of those times, since the Bible does not describe any scientific research of those times, any attempt to comprehend the nature of things. I am inclined to believe that initially the Bible was generally passed down orally from generation to generation and underwent changes, because each storyteller added something of his own to it. As a result, we have not so much a historical document as a collection of mythical stories.
 

J regia

Well-known member
No such thing as a mountain 15 cubits high or 24ft.
So how high was the highest hill/mountain which was covered by the flood which was 15 cubits deep and drowned most of Noah's family and their animals but had no effect on a nearby olive tree, nor on two of Noah's brothers and their families (Gen 4:20-21)?
 

J regia

Well-known member
All these concepts are very relative, because in the times described in the Bible, there were very relative measures. And the Bible was not written by the scientists of those times, since the Bible does not describe any scientific research of those times, any attempt to comprehend the nature of things. I am inclined to believe that initially the Bible was generally passed down orally from generation to generation and underwent changes, because each storyteller added something of his own to it. As a result, we have not so much a historical document as a collection of mythical stories.
I don't disagree with that. I'm only pointing out that the biblical story only describes a local event and not a global event.
 

AprilRose

Member
Large ships like the ark need a water depth of 27-30 feet to safely float. Lesser than this, it will just tip over and crash to its side.

With a water depth of only 24 feet, there's no need to build an ark. People can simply build a house 30 feet high. A lot of trees are 100ft high. Mountains and hills are even higher than that. So many places to seek refuge.
 

J regia

Well-known member
The biblical story says that Noah's wooden boat was 30 cubits high and therefore would have a draught less than 10 cubits and would easily float in a flood which was 15 cubits high. Indeed even a steel ocean liner such as the "Queen Mary 2" would be able to sail up the centre of the flooded river with a length of 1182 feet and a height of 236 feet and a draught of 33.8 feet.

Or do think that Noah's boat was a submarine? Either way, the KJV and the Hebrew bible clearly says that the flood which drowned most of Noah's family was only 15 cubits high and drained away like every other similar flood before and since.
 
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