Correct and the atheolibmarxist cannot show us where the original information in the original DNA came from.
Nature did it is nonsense
- Thread starter ferengi
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rossum
Active member
Unless and until we have observed a different way for a new species to arise then yes, it is scientifically valid evidence of evolution. As and when you have observed evidence of a god/dess creating a new species from thin air then science will reconsider.
Not always, as with Down's syndrome or achondroplasia.
False. He showed that new species (Oenothera gigas) arose from a full genome duplication of Oenothera lamarckiana. The mutation was from 2N=14 to 2N=28. That was an early observation of a mutation causing speciation.
False - you have not presented evidence for these claims
Temujin
Well-known member
The evolution of poultry is down to farming techniques, and artificial selection, not evolution.
Evolution is perfectly capable of producing a whole gaggle of geese, sorry genes, as you have been shown many times in the past. Indeed, you have a gaggle, or should that be a flock, of new mutations in your own body, some of which will affect active genes.
We have already observed intelligence creating and designing using forethought and ingenuity. Time to reconsider.
This is the same as the disabled fruit fly that fruit flyatologists have been able to produce but no new traits, genes or species. As I state before (giving credit to Dr. Jonathan Wells) the only product of a mutated fruit fly is a ff, a disabled ff or a dead ff.
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Thanks for the English lesson but try to stay away from mutations, they're not good for you. Nor me for that matter.
Temujin
Well-known member
It's OK. Most are completely harmless, and some are good for you. More importantly, all are good for the species.
rossum
Active member
I eagerly await your observations of any intelligent god or goddess creating anything.
Your sources are misinforming you again. New traits were observed. New genes were produced. Why do you believe sources that continually lie to you?
CrowCross
Well-known member
Wow, talk about twisting a point. Speciation is what is called horizontal evolution...NOT...vertical evolutionism.
Let me remind you one more time....the fruit fly is still a fruit fly. For some reason you can't seem to absorb that information.
The genera is a man made term based upon evolutionism. The animals started off as Kinds. Yet another aspect of creation science that you present as brand new to you.
New information is required. Speciation is arrived at due to a mixing or removing of genetic information. To turn. cat into a dog new genetic information arranged precisely is required to change a cat into a dog. The evolution have no mechanism that allows for this to occur with any animal species. Then again you already knew that.
CrowCross
Well-known member
What percentage of harmless and what percentage are good for you? I'm not asking for an exact number...a ballpark number will suffice.
If you can provide numbers please present a peer reviewed source as typically you evos make up there numbers.
rossum
Active member
Argumentum as Humpty Dumpty. You are introducing undefined terms here. Try "I accept horizontal Christianity... NOT... vertical Christianism." Does that mean anything?
You said above: "You need to understand that the creationist allow for speciation." Was that incorrect? Darwin was talking about the origin of species, that is speciation, which you say creationists "allow for". If so, then what is your problem with Darwin?
Temujin
Well-known member
Either you accept a generic estimate, which you have rejected in the past, or you accept articles and papers which explain why "ball park figures" are impossible because all cases are different and figures depend on the environmental factors. You have rejected these on the past also. Or alternatively you can produce your own figures based on your research into the subject. This too you have refused to do. There is no point in answering you, since you refuse to accept any answer given, whatever the premise, whatever the source. The reason for this is that any figure whatsoever that includes some beneficial mutations, however few, and a majority of neutral mutations, will result in evolution. The basis of your question is dishonest.
Whateverman
Well-known member
Temujin
Well-known member
No no, it's a murder of crows, which are notoriously solitary. When one crow flies in to join another, the first invariably flies off. So all you normally get is an attempted murder.
The postulate was intelligence. No one said anything about a god or goddess at least not from the scientific point of view.
Where when and how? If you can't produce any current evidence now then certainly de Vries didn't do it over a hundred years ago.
rossum
Active member
Then we need an observation of intelligence at the time and place the design happened. Stonehenge was designed by humans, and there is independent evidence of humans in the area at the time.
Where is your independent evidence of intelligence present at the time when, say, the bacterial flagellum was designed? Absent such evidence then your hypothesis is very weak.
de Vries was studying plants, not Drosophila. Try Mutations in the Drosophila Melanogaster Gene Encoding S-Adenosylmethionine Suppress Position-Effect Variegation for something more recent. The references contain additional relevant examples. Google Scholar is your friend.
Where is your evidence nature did it? Absent such evidence then your hypothesis is very weak.
Michael R2
Active member
Please tell this to the crows that gather near my house every Monday, waiting for me to put out my trash. The only thing they murder is my bag, leaving me to clean up the mess.
Temujin
Well-known member
If you see a rook on its own, it's a crow. If you see a large bunch of crows, they are rooks.
Doesn't help with the mess of course. I get ravens in my garden, which keep the crows away. They are more intelligent than some of the posters here.