Neither Arminianism Nor Calvinism

Hark

Well-known member
I do not believe we should be identifying with anyone or a church other than Jesus Christ in being and serving Him as His disciple in seeking His glory.

1 Corinthians 3;3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Not everything on either side of this "debate" is aligning with all of scriptures. One can have a tendency to overlook certain few things Calvin has taught in favor of agreeing with most of everything Calvin has taught like I once did, but I do not wish to do that any more but serve Jesus Christ.

At one time in his life, Calvin supported the execution of a heretic but the Bible never taught that but excommunication. Here is what Jesus said about anyone thinking they are doing God's service by killing those who are judged as heretics.

John 16:1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

So did John Calvin knew Christ Jesus? By His words, he did not, but that does not mean he was not saved nor a heretic himself in everything he had taught. He could have repented on his death bed in getting right with the Lord or sooner because he did not support any further executions of heretics that we know of, even though there is no public acknowledgement of his repentance.

We prophesy in part & know in part for why we need to rely on Jesus Christ for wisdom in discerning by the scriptures in proving everything and thereby abstaining from all appearances of evil. Believe that God, Who gave His Son for us, will freely give us all things to grow in the knowledge of Him & His words.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Good Post; but I wouldn't have gone as far as to say that Calvin wasn't Saved/IE did he know Christ. Also, we have Arminius saying that Calvin is the best Bible teacher...
 

Hark

Well-known member
Good Post; but I wouldn't have gone as far as to say that Calvin wasn't Saved/IE did he know Christ. Also, we have Arminius saying that Calvin is the best Bible teacher...
I believe Jesus was referring to the sin/heresy for how those who think they are doing God's service by killing others. Here is a quote from my OP.

"So did John Calvin knew Christ Jesus? By His words, he did not, but that does not mean he was not saved nor a heretic himself in everything he had taught."

I believe this sin/heresy that is on that foundation when Christ judge the House of God first in that day can disqualify a saved believer from being received to the Marriage Supper in Heaven, unless they have repented before the Bridegroom comes per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 Those unrepented saints & former believers left behind are still saved even though denied by Him for not being ready for being found as workers of iniquities.

Discipleship or running that race is not for obtaining salvation, but for obtaining the eternal glory that comes with our salvation which is to be received as that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven held in His honor and to His glory as we can only run that ace by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin for the high prize of our calling as He shall finish the race.

Thank you for sharing.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I believe this sin can disqualify a saved believer from being received to the Marriage Supper in Heaven, unless they have repented before the Bridegroom comes per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 Those unrepented saints & former believers left behind are still saved even though denied by Him for not being ready for being found as workers of iniquities.

Discipleship or running that race is not for obtaining salvation, but for obtaining the eternal glory that comes with our salvation which is to be received as that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven held in His honor and to His glory as we can only run that ace by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin for the high prize of our calling as He shall finish the race.

Thank you for sharing.
You're welcome...

By saying we can lose our Salvation, you have surreptitiously chosen a side though; right?

Chosen if not by name of a Soteriology, but by the Creed of one; right? Look at it like this; if you don't call yourself a Modalist, but agree with Oneness Pentecostalism...
 
Last edited:
G

guest1

Guest
@Hark do you attend a physical brick and mortar church ?

If so what denomination. Thanks !
 

Hark

Well-known member
You're welcome...

By saying we can lose our Salvation, you have surreptitiously chosen a side though; right?

I know you highlighted this in red ( now in black below ) that you drew that conclusion from, but it is not what you assumed I had meant if you read the whole paragraph.

I believe this sin can disqualify a saved believer from being received to the Marriage Supper in Heaven, unless they have repented before the Bridegroom comes per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 Those unrepented saints & former believers left behind are still saved even though denied by Him for not being ready for being found as workers of iniquities.

If you look at the warning to the church at Thyatira in Revelation 2:18-25 in how if they do not repent, they will be cast away into the bed of the coming great tribulation & compare with 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 as God will judge all the works on that foundation that deny Him with the penalty of a physical death in verses 16-17, but their spirits are still saved in verse 15.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I do not believe we should be identifying with anyone or a church other than Jesus Christ in being and serving Him as His disciple in seeking His glory.

I recognize the motive in your position, but I have to disagree with your advice.

If someone comes up to me and tells me that they are "Christian", the term is used so much has been so watered down, that I don't know if the person calling himself a "Christian":
- believing in one god or many;
- believes in the Trinity or not;
- believes in the deity of Jesus or not;
- believes in sola Scriptura or not;
- believes in other authorities or not;
- believes in faith alone or not;
- believes in praying to saints or not;
- even believes that God exists or not.

So in that regard, it's a meaningless label.

In contrast, if someone identifies as:
- Arminian;
- Calvinist;
- Roman Catholic;
- Presbyterian;
- Jehovah's Witness;
- Mormon;
- Seventh-day Adventist,

... I suddenly know a LOT about their theology, and I can more appropriately and more effectively communicate with them.

I've said it many times.... As early as 5-years-old, I know that "Anglican", and "Baptist", and "Methodist", and "Presbyterian", were all Christian denominations, so if someone identifies by a particular denomination, it is obvious that they also identify as Christian.

It's like saying that if you really want to be patriotic, you shouldn't identify as "New Yorker", or "Texan", or "Floridian", but only as "American". But if you live in one of the 50 states then you ARE American.

1 Corinthians 3;3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

<sigh>

Calvinists do NOT "follow" Calvin.
Arminians do NOT "follow" Arminius.
Lutherans do NOT "follow" Luther.
Wesleyans do NOT "follow" Wesley.

They all follow CHRIST, to the best of their understanding.
The names are simply labels for the theology they hold.

So quoting 1 Cor. 3 is completely irrelevant and misplaced.

Not everything on either side of this "debate" is aligning with all of scriptures. One can have a tendency to overlook certain few things Calvin has taught in favor of agreeing with most of everything Calvin has taught like I once did, but I do not wish to do that any more but serve Jesus Christ.

Most Calvinists don't look to "John Calvin" for our theology.
We look to the BIBLE for our theology.
John Calvin doesn't "define" Calvinism.
For instance, I reject Calvin's view of "infant baptism" as unBiblical.
But that's okay, since "Calvinism" does NOT mean "believe whatever John Calvin taught".

And yes, I fully believe that my theology follows ALL of the Scriptures. I've spent 30 years with my beliefs being attacked, and all attacks have failed.

At one time in his life, Calvin supported the execution of a heretic but the Bible never taught that but excommunication.

Newsflash: Calvin was a sinner.
I'm sorry if you never realized that before.

But if you lived in that era, it is 99.99% certain that YOU would also have supported the execution of heretics. It would be arrogant to assume otherwise, and assume you were some "super-Christian" who was far more moral than any other Christian.

This is an example of "hindsight is always 20/20".

So did John Calvin knew Christ Jesus? By His words, he did not,

What "words" are you referring to?
Where did Calvin write, "I do not know Jesus Christ"?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I know you highlighted this in red ( now in black below ) that you drew that conclusion from, but it is not what you assumed I had meant if you read the whole paragraph.

I believe this sin can disqualify a saved believer from being received to the Marriage Supper in Heaven, unless they have repented before the Bridegroom comes per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 Those unrepented saints & former believers left behind are still saved even though denied by Him for not being ready for being found as workers of iniquities.

If you look at the warning to the church at Thyatira in Revelation 2:18-25 in how if they do not repent, they will be cast away into the bed of the coming great tribulation & compare with 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 as God will judge all the works on that foundation that deny Him with the penalty of a physical death in verses 16-17, but their spirits are still saved in verse 15.
Okay. But the two highlights seem to be in contradiction. Why do you say both?

How can anyone be Saved if they aren't at the Marriage Super of the Lamb? The Foolish Virgins missed out...
 
Last edited:

Hark

Well-known member
@Hark do you attend a physical brick and mortar church ?

If so what denomination. Thanks !
Not sure what relevancy that would have since I cannot prove to you that I am going to or not going to a church.

But in spite of not being able to prove this to you, I am not going to a church or any place of known designated places of worship, although I can worship Him anywhere since my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit for why I can approach God the Father in worship by only honoring the Son in order for me to honor the Father.

I had been a member of the Covenant Presbyterian Church before I withdrew my membership due to apostasy. I had found myself aligning with Baptist faith but not to any Baptist church because none answered the call to alarm for the apostasy in the entire area of the phone book that I had taken the liberty of writing a mail to all churches from all denominations. Only a few answered to disagree, and none were Baptists to agree.

I had been in a Baptist forum, and although members identify with being a Baptist, I find that Baptist has lost its identity when sounding like Pentecostals & Charismatics & even Catholics by their words & practice. So I am wondering if I should even identify myself with the Baptist's faith, but then again, one can say for anything identified as Christian.

So I reckon you can discern who I am and Whom I serve as our conversation goes on, but it is not a church or a denomination that I serve, but the Lord Jesus Christ and I even need His help to do that too.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

2 Corinthians 6:14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Ephesians 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

1 John 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Anyway, it is ministry outreach and godly edification that I seek the Lord to do with me & to me while I am here, and sometimes, open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed for which some may have taken that to mean attacking the poster when I was rebuking or correcting what the poster did or had posted and by the scripture too. Still... I rely on the Lord to help me to minister without attacking the poster by belittling or calling names or whatever, since we are all at different growths in our walk with the Lord, including myself since we are not perfect yet.
 
G

guest1

Guest
Not sure what relevancy that would have since I cannot prove to you that I am going to or not going to a church.

But in spite of not being able to prove this to you, I am not going to a church or any place of known designated places of worship, although I can worship Him anywhere since my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit for why I can approach God the Father in worship by only honoring the Son in order for me to honor the Father.

I had been a member of the Covenant Presbyterian Church before I withdrew my membership due to apostasy. I had found myself aligning with Baptist faith but not to any Baptist church because none answered the call to alarm for the apostasy in the entire area of the phone book that I had taken the liberty of writing a mail to all churches from all denominations. Only a few answered to disagree, and none were Baptists to agree.

I had been in a Baptist forum, and although members identify with being a Baptist, I find that Baptist has lost its identity when sounding like Pentecostals & Charismatics & even Catholics by their words & practice. So I am wondering if I should even identify myself with the Baptist's faith, but then again, one can say for anything identified as Christian.

So I reckon you can discern who I am and Whom I serve as our conversation goes on, but it is not a church or a denomination that I serve, but the Lord Jesus Christ and I even need His help to do that too.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

2 Corinthians 6:14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Ephesians 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

1 John 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Anyway, it is ministry outreach and godly edification that I seek the Lord to do with me & to me while I am here, and sometimes, open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed for which some may have taken that to mean attacking the poster when I was rebuking or correcting what the poster did or had posted and by the scripture too. Still... I rely on the Lord to help me to minister without attacking the poster by belittling or calling names or whatever, since we are all at different growths in our walk with the Lord, including myself since we are not perfect yet.
Thanks for sharing!

Would you mind sharing what was the apostasy in the covenant Presbyterian church .

Thank you !
 

Hark

Well-known member
I recognize the motive in your position, but I have to disagree with your advice.

If someone comes up to me and tells me that they are "Christian", the term is used so much has been so watered down, that I don't know if the person calling himself a "Christian":
- believing in one god or many;
- believes in the Trinity or not;
- believes in the deity of Jesus or not;
- believes in sola Scriptura or not;
- believes in other authorities or not;
- believes in faith alone or not;
- believes in praying to saints or not;
- even believes that God exists or not.

So in that regard, it's a meaningless label.

In contrast, if someone identifies as:
- Arminian;
- Calvinist;
- Roman Catholic;
- Presbyterian;
- Jehovah's Witness;
- Mormon;
- Seventh-day Adventist,

... I suddenly know a LOT about their theology, and I can more appropriately and more effectively communicate with them.
Thank you for sharing. Just wanted to get that off right away and not forget at the end of my post as I sometimes do.

I agree with you that labels does not mean anything.

And I can agree with you somewhat in regards to identifying what church or cult a believer belongs to, because like in your denomination, not everyone believes what everything the church teach. There is such a thing as a cafeteria Catholic where they believe in some of what the RCC teaches but not all, and so it has to be with anyone identifying with a church. It does give you some ideas as to how to be progress in the conversation with any said individual by asking questions if they believe what the church taught about something.

You may know a lot of their theology, but they may not know or believe everything of that theology that is from their church, but yes, I can agree that it can give you some leadings from the Lord in how to progress in whatever discussion you have with someone identified by another church.

The same can be said for anyone identifying themselves with your church. One should not assume that they know everything the church teaches, and in some cases, probably more often than not, they are sharing teachings that are not really Baptist's but from another church.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Thanks for sharing!

Would you mind sharing what was the apostasy in the covenant Presbyterian church .

Thank you !
The apostasy of the Promise Keepers' movements as my former church became the center for that promotion in the entire valley.

They even had elders & deacons to make promises before serving the church.

We can only serve Him by faith in Jesus Christ since He is the Head of the Church just as we can only follow Him by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd as we can only live tis reconciled relationship with God the Father by faith in Jesus Christ.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Not sure what relevancy that would have since I cannot prove to you that I am going to or not going to a church.

Well, the charitable response would be to trust the answer of anyone who names the name of Christ, unless the person gives reason not to trust them.

Your answer suggests that you think we shouldn't trust you, and I have to wonder why you think that.

But in spite of not being able to prove this to you, I am not going to a church or any place of known designated places of worship, although I can worship Him anywhere since my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit for why I can approach God the Father in worship by only honoring the Son in order for me to honor the Father.

So you're okay disobeying Heb. 10:25?

I had been a member of the Covenant Presbyterian Church before I withdrew my membership due to apostasy.

See? That wasn't so hard, was it?

I had found myself aligning with Baptist faith but not to any Baptist church because none answered the call to alarm for the apostasy in the entire area of the phone book that I had taken the liberty of writing a mail to all churches from all denominations. Only a few answered to disagree, and none were Baptists to agree.

So let me get this straight... You condemn Calvin for supporting the execution of heretics, but you think it's okay to try to persecute other churches you disagree with? Am I understanding you correctly?

I had been in a Baptist forum, and although members identify with being a Baptist, I find that Baptist has lost its identity when sounding like Pentecostals & Charismatics & even Catholics by their words & practice. So I am wondering if I should even identify myself with the Baptist's faith, but then again, one can say for anything identified as Christian.

Sounds like you are very judgmental, and have issues submitting to authority.
In your estimation, do you understand the Bible better than anyone else in the world?

So I reckon you can discern who I am and Whom I serve as our conversation goes on, but it is not a church or a denomination that I serve, but the Lord Jesus Christ and I even need His help to do that too.

You know where you get help serving Jesus?
In the church you need to assemble with.
And you need to help them as well.

Anyway, it is ministry outreach and godly edification that I seek the Lord to do with me & to me while I am here, and sometimes, open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed for which some may have taken that to mean attacking the poster when I was rebuking or correcting what the poster did or had posted and by the scripture too.

Yep, I think I've pegged you pretty well.
You don't have anyone in a physical church to rebuke, so you come here so you can rebuke us as well. Maybe it's not your job to rebuke others...

Still... I rely on the Lord to help me to minister without attacking the poster by belittling or calling names

Like attacking posters by falsely claiming we "follow" Calvin?
Like attacking posters by falsely claiming we don't accept all Scripture?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I agree with you that labels does not mean anything.

Actually, we disagree, since I never claimed (and do not believe) that "labels does [sic] not mean anything". Labels DO mean something, which is why they use them. They simply don't always mean what you ASSUME they mean (such as "following" the person who's name is the label).

And I can agree with you somewhat in regards to identifying what church or cult a believer belongs to, because like in your denomination, not everyone believes what everything the church teach. There is such a thing as a cafeteria Catholic where they believe in some of what the RCC teaches but not all, and so it has to be with anyone identifying with a church.

You know, there are people who are just as smart as you, if not smarter.
I'm sorry you assumed I had no clue about "cafeteria Catholics", or that various church members have different levels of understanding or agreement with the doctrines of their church.

Maybe you should assume your opponents are knowledgeable, rather than assuming ignorance.

You may know a lot of their theology, but they may not know or believe everything of that theology that is from their church,

And you assumed I didn't know this..... Why?
 
G

guest1

Guest
The apostasy of the Promise Keepers' movements as my former church became the center for that promotion in the entire valley.

They even had elders & deacons to make promises before serving the church.

We can only serve Him by faith in Jesus Christ since He is the Head of the Church just as we can only follow Him by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd as we can only live tis reconciled relationship with God the Father by faith in Jesus Christ.
entire valley as in the central valley of California ?
 

Hark

Well-known member
Well, the charitable response would be to trust the answer of anyone who names the name of Christ, unless the person gives reason not to trust them.

Your answer suggests that you think we shouldn't trust you, and I have to wonder why you think that.
Isn't it against the rules to share any private information? Has there not been trolls in forums? Do not Jesuits sworn an oath to cause chaos in society? Various reasons to not believe everything you read about a poster here.
So you're okay disobeying Heb. 10:25?
When they ignore you & your reproofs.. Jesus said this;

Matthew 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

And Paul said this;

2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Since excommunication has been taught by Jesus in Matthew 18:14-17 & Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, then when a church refuses to repent...
See? That wasn't so hard, was it?
Just don't se the point of it since I am no longer attending there.
So let me get this straight... You condemn Calvin for supporting the execution of heretics, but you think it's okay to try to persecute other churches you disagree with? Am I understanding you correctly?
I am not having them executed. Big difference there, brother.
Sounds like you are very judgmental, and have issues submitting to authority.
In your estimation, do you understand the Bible better than anyone else in the world?
I am judgmental when it comes to a church refusing to submit to the authority of the Word of God Whom is the Head of every believer and every church.
You know where you get help serving Jesus?
In the church you need to assemble with.
And you need to help them as well.
Not when the leaders refuse to let you help. Not when they debase you for why no one should listen to you. Nobody has listened either.
Yep, I think I've pegged you pretty well.
You don't have anyone in a physical church to rebuke, so you come here so you can rebuke us as well. Maybe it's not your job to rebuke others...
Why do you rebuke those not affiliated with your church or your belief?
Like attacking posters by falsely claiming we "follow" Calvin?
Like attacking posters by falsely claiming we don't accept all Scripture?
I believe Paul was addressing how believers were dividing themselves per water baptism if you read that in context.

An when believers call themselves a Calvinist.. how is that not the same thing? I am not saying everyone identify themselves as that way or the opposite, but it has been done when identifying with a side in this "debate".
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Isn't it against the rules to share any private information?

It's against the rules for OTHERS to share private information about another poster (ie. doxing), but it's not against the rules to share information about yourself.

Has there not been trolls in forums?

Yes.
So are you admitting to being a troll?
Is that why you think we shouldn't trust you?

Do not Jesuits sworn an oath to cause chaos in society?

I'm not a Jesuit, so I'm not sure why you are bringing that up.
Are you claiming to be a Jesuit?

Since excommunication has been taught by Jesus in Matthew 18:14-17 & Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, then when a church refuses to repent...

What authority do you submit yourself to?

I am judgmental when it comes to a church refusing to submit to the authority of the Word of God Whom is the Head of every believer and every church.

<Chuckle>
So while you are busy judging all the Christians on the face of the earth, who is judging you?
Christianity isn't about going around "judging" everyone.

Not when the leaders refuse to let you help. Not when they debase you for why no one should listen to you. Nobody has listened either.

So you think they are "obligated" to let you help?
So you think they should submit to your "authority"?
Who gave you this imaginary "authority", that the entire Christian world has to bow down and obey your every whim?

An when believers call themselves a Calvinist.. how is that not the same thing?

Calvinism does NOT teach, "follow John Calvin".
Calvinism does NOT teach, "hold every doctrine John Calvin held".
Calvinism does NOT teach, "you are free to ignore some verses".

I thought I explained this to you already?
 

Hark

Well-known member
Actually, we disagree, since I never claimed (and do not believe) that "labels does [sic] not mean anything". Labels DO mean something, which is why they use them. They simply don't always mean what you ASSUME they mean (such as "following" the person who's name is the label).



You know, there are people who are just as smart as you, if not smarter.
I'm sorry you assumed I had no clue about "cafeteria Catholics", or that various church members have different levels of understanding or agreement with the doctrines of their church.

Maybe you should assume your opponents are knowledgeable, rather than assuming ignorance.



And you assumed I didn't know this..... Why?
Maybe I should just assume you are responding more for the sake of being argumentative than ministering to me.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Maybe I should just assume you are responding more for the sake of being argumentative than ministering to me.

Maybe you shouldn't make "assumptions" of any kind whatsoever.
It usually doesn't turn out well.

And maybe you should do a word study of "charity" in the Bible.
You could end up learning a lot.
 
Top