Neither Arminianism Nor Calvinism

Hark

Well-known member
Maybe you shouldn't make "assumptions" of any kind whatsoever.
It usually doesn't turn out well.

And maybe you should do a word study of "charity" in the Bible.
You could end up learning a lot.
You should too, since you just judged yourself. Not feeling Christ's love from you.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

So while you are busy judging all the Christians on the face of the earth, who is judging you?
Christianity isn't about going around "judging" everyone.
Considering how bad it will be in the latter days when faith will be hard to find, ...

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

I judge the works for why I withdraw when they refuse correction by the scripture. And scripture supports that decision which I needed Christ's help to do as well.
 
G

guest1

Guest
The apostasy of the Promise Keepers' movements as my former church became the center for that promotion in the entire valley.

They even had elders & deacons to make promises before serving the church.

We can only serve Him by faith in Jesus Christ since He is the Head of the Church just as we can only follow Him by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd as we can only live tis reconciled relationship with God the Father by faith in Jesus Christ.
so how would you reconcile your above comments/observations about promise keepers in light of Pauls remarks below ?

Philippians 1:15-18
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Yes, and I will continue to rejoice,

 

Hark

Well-known member
so how would you reconcile your above comments/observations about promise keepers in light of Pauls remarks below ?

Philippians 1:15-18
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Yes, and I will continue to rejoice,
Let's look at scripture regarding promises.

2 Corinthians 11:20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. KJV

Matthew 5:33 is Jesus talking about how Jews of old times as in followers of God, had performed their oaths unto the Lord which is required by the law.

Numbers 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth. KJV

Then Jesus expounds on that former practice by how they would used to swear by something to show their sincerity in performing that oath but instead warned not to do even that in Matthew 5:34-37 & explains why in Matthew 5:36 because we cannot do nor perform God's work by the deeds of the law by a promise or a commitment, thus it would be our work; not His.

Proof of that is why God is warning the Jews of old & us about making hasty vows as it is the work of our hands.

Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. 5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. 6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands? 7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God. ~ KJV

So can we finish by the flesh by doing the best we can in keeping a promise or a commitment to Christ for what was begun in the Spirit?

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Anything that involves apostasy is not preaching Jesus Christ, but a departure from the truth & from Him. They may preach the gospel but Promise Keepers is preaching a departure from the faith in how we are to follow Him by resorting to our own power i& will in following Him.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Anything that involves apostasy is not preaching Jesus Christ, but a departure from the truth & from Him. They may preach the gospel but Promise Keepers is preaching a departure from the faith in how we are to follow Him by resorting to our own power i& will in following Him.
How has the Church aposticized specifically?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
You should too, since you just judged yourself. Not feeling Christ's love from you.

And I'm not feeling Christ's love from you, either.
So now what?

You continue to disobey God and refuse to assemble together.
You continue to disobey God and refuse to submit yourself to authority.
You think you are literally God's gift to all Christians, and think you are in authority over everyone else.

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2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

So why do you throw a verse at me that you disobey youreself?
Double standards much?

I judge the works for why I withdraw when they refuse correction by the scripture.

When they refuse "correction" from your INTERPRETATION of Scripture.
But they are not in submission under you.
 
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Hark

Well-known member
How has the Church aposticized specifically?
There are more than one kind of apostasy running amok in the churches whereas Promise Keepers movement was just one of them. The groundwork for that apostasy was laid upon another one where believers were inspired to make a commitment to follow Christ as if by keeping it, they can gain the assurance of salvation. It was and still is the complete opposite of the gospel just reached prior where all those that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The major one per Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 is how the way in coming to God the father was broadened by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as if that is how God the Father wants to be honored, thus disregarding John 5:23.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

It is the latter part of verse 23 that many seems to gloss over as if God did not really meant to say that as if only honoring the Son is the only way to honor the father and yet the moment you stop honoring the Son, you are no longer honoring the Father.

The Holy Spirit is God and One of the Triune God, BUT He has been sent to testify of the Son in seeking His glory.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

As a divine witness, He cannot lead the believer to testify of Himself in seeking His own glory for that would be a false witness.

John 15: 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

There is no unrighteousness in the Holy Spirit. It is man led astray by the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. that has broadened the way in how the church had been coming to God the Father by in prayer, fellowship, and worship rather than by the only way provided and that is by the Son.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.... 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

So when we consider what makes a true witness from a false witness, then how can the Holy Spirit lead the believers in any other way than to the Bridegroom in coming to God the Father by in prayer, fellowship, and worship?

Case in point; slain in the spirit and holy laughter movement and Pensacola Outpouring & Toronto's Blessings and even another baptism of the "Holy Spirit" with evidence of tongues have believers falling down by this iniquity as Jesus said for not heeding His words in Matthew 7:24-27,

That iniquity is focus on the Holy Spirit in worship for why the spirits of the antichrists will come whereas the real indwelling holy Spirit would keep our eyes on the Son in worship, fellowship & prayer as the only way to come to God the Father by. So to avoid the iniquity of Matthew 7:13-14 is to narrow the way back to the straight gate in Luke 13:24 to avoid being left behind when the Bridegroom comes.

Most believers do not believe that we are not to honor the Holy Spirit in worship or pray TO the Holy Spirit, but yet that is how those phenomenon sometimes happen where confusion reigns that God is not the author of. Again, the Holy Spirit is God and of the Triune God, but scripture specifically told us the father's will in how to come to Him for anything and that is by the only way provided, His Son.

Those are the 2 major kinds of apostasy that has led many astray; one religiously and the other spiritually. That is why few find their resting place in Jesus Christ and why only a few find the only way to God in these latter days.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
There are more than one kind of apostasy running amok in the churches whereas Promise Keepers movement was just one of them. The groundwork for that apostasy was laid upon another one where believers were inspired to make a commitment to follow Christ as if by keeping it, they can gain the assurance of salvation. It was and still is the complete opposite of the gospel just reached prior where all those that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The major one per Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 is how the way in coming to God the father was broadened by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as if that is how God the Father wants to be honored, thus disregarding John 5:23.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

It is the latter part of verse 23 that many seems to gloss over as if God did not really meant to say that as if only honoring the Son is the only way to honor the father and yet the moment you stop honoring the Son, you are no longer honoring the Father.

The Holy Spirit is God and One of the Triune God, BUT He has been sent to testify of the Son in seeking His glory.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

As a divine witness, He cannot lead the believer to testify of Himself in seeking His own glory for that would be a false witness.

John 15: 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

There is no unrighteousness in the Holy Spirit. It is man led astray by the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. that has broadened the way in how the church had been coming to God the Father by in prayer, fellowship, and worship rather than by the only way provided and that is by the Son.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.... 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

So when we consider what makes a true witness from a false witness, then how can the Holy Spirit lead the believers in any other way than to the Bridegroom in coming to God the Father by in prayer, fellowship, and worship?

Case in point; slain in the spirit and holy laughter movement and Pensacola Outpouring & Toronto's Blessings and even another baptism of the "Holy Spirit" with evidence of tongues have believers falling down by this iniquity as Jesus said for not heeding His words in Matthew 7:24-27,

That iniquity is focus on the Holy Spirit in worship for why the spirits of the antichrists will come whereas the real indwelling holy Spirit would keep our eyes on the Son in worship, fellowship & prayer as the only way to come to God the Father by. So to avoid the iniquity of Matthew 7:13-14 is to narrow the way back to the straight gate in Luke 13:24 to avoid being left behind when the Bridegroom comes.

Most believers do not believe that we are not to honor the Holy Spirit in worship or pray TO the Holy Spirit, but yet that is how those phenomenon sometimes happen where confusion reigns that God is not the author of. Again, the Holy Spirit is God and of the Triune God, but scripture specifically told us the father's will in how to come to Him for anything and that is by the only way provided, His Son.

Those are the 2 major kinds of apostasy that has led many astray; one religiously and the other spiritually. That is why few find their resting place in Jesus Christ and why only a few find the only way to God in these latter days.
I thought the Promise Keepers promised to be better fathers, sorry. I never knew they promised to Work for their Justification...
 

Hark

Well-known member
How has the Church aposticized specifically?
By the commitment to follow Christ ( as if that was not enough to get believers to follow Him ), and by the promises of the PK program, is the knowledge of sin.

So then PK goes one step further & say God will give more grace and help them keep their promises. For what purpose. To call themselves promise Keepers when they are really not? Would God bare false witness? No. By His words, they have to do all that proceeds out of their mouths per Numbers 30:2. That is why God warned believers in Ecclesiastes 5 not to make hasty vows. If He could help us anyway, then there would be no need for warnings. And Jesus warned again in Matthew 5:33-37 because we cannot do His work in us by keeping a promise to do it, thus by the work of our hands and will power rather than by faith in Jesus Christ.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

How do we deny ourselves? By acknowledging that we cannot follow Him any more than we can save ourselves. So when we carry the cross daily, we are saying we are crucified with Christ, yet we live, but not I, but Christ lives in me. So when He says "follow Me" He is asking us to trust Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him. That is why it is written that the just shall live by faith, but the law is not of faith and those who do them, must live in them.

Jesus has set me free from all yokes of bondages to rest in the New Covenant that He will do it. He helps me to follow Him far better than I can by doing the best I can. That is how I get to know Him & the power of His resurrection when I follow Him by faith of what I could not do by doing the best I can in keeping a commitment or promise to Him.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
By the commitment to follow Christ ( as if that was not enough to get believers to follow Him ), and by the promises of the PK program, is the knowledge of sin.

So then PK goes one step further & say God will give more grace and help them keep their promises. For what purpose. To call themselves promise Keepers when they are really not? Would God bare false witness? No. By His words, they have to do all that proceeds out of their mouths per Numbers 30:2. That is why God warned believers in Ecclesiastes 5 not to make hasty vows. If He could help us anyway, then there would be no need for warnings. And Jesus warned again in Matthew 5:33-37 because we cannot do His work in us by keeping a promise to do it, thus by the work of our hands and will power rather than by faith in Jesus Christ.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

How do we deny ourselves? By acknowledging that we cannot follow Him any more than we can save ourselves. So when we carry the cross daily, we are saying we are crucified with Christ, yet we live, but not I, but Christ lives in me. So when He says "follow Me" He is asking us to trust Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him. That is why it is written that the just shall live by faith, but the law is not of faith and those who do them, must live in them.

Jesus has set me free from all yokes of bondages to rest in the New Covenant that He will do it. He helps me to follow Him far better than I can by doing the best I can. That is how I get to know Him & the power of His resurrection when I follow Him by faith of what I could not do by doing the best I can in keeping a commitment or promise to Him.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
What is the reason for only Conflating promise keeping with Law Keeping. He who promised is Faithful; right?
 
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Hark

Well-known member
I thought the Promise Keepers promised to be better fathers, sorry. I never knew they promised to Work for their Justification...
Promise Keepers did not do that. They just resorted to the law in following Jesus in being a good father & good husband. They are finishing by the flesh in vanity for what was begun in the Spirit.

Billy Graham did that when he had preached the gospel but then his altar call is the opposite of the gospel he had preached by saying "if you are not sure you are saved, come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ." This is why in an interview with Tony Snow, Billy Graham doubted he would be received by the Lord Jesus Christ in Heaven because he said he was not always a good Christian. ( He is there by the way in spirit to this day as promised by the Lord, but it does not look good for him to be of the firstfruits of the resurrection, but time will tell.

Anyway, as much as Billy Graham had tried to reject the credit given to him for "leading so many to the Lord", he is really nothing just like Paul. Billy Graham did not do anything and yet by that altar call to gain he assurance of salvation, by his commitment to follow Christ, Billy Graham doubted his salvation. So Billy meant what he had said about that commitment to follow Christ and he sought justification by trying to keep it.

But again Promise Keepers are trying to do His work in making themselves good fathers & good husbands and good leaders when they should be trusting Jesus & His promises to them to do that work in them.

The irony is that the spin off from the men's movements of Promise Keepers for the women is called Faith Keepers. That is what the men should have been doing as well.
 

Hark

Well-known member
What is the reason for Conflating promise keeping with Law Keeping. He who promised is Faithful; right?
If circumcision is the smallest letter of the law and if believers did that, then they are entitled to do the whole law, where do you think vows or promises to God falls under? I would say the biggest letter of the law.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

The 7 promises of the Promise Keepers program cannot be kept by men nor finished by men, but Jesus can when they ask Him to set them free from vanity and rest in Him that He will finish His work in us by faith in Jesus Christ.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Promise Keepers did not do that. They just resorted to the law in following Jesus in being a good father & good husband. They are finishing by the flesh in vanity for what was begun in the Spirit.

Billy Graham did that when he had preached the gospel but then his altar call is the opposite of the gospel he had preached by saying "if you are not sure you are saved, come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ." This is why in an interview with Tony Snow, Billy Graham doubted he would be received by the Lord Jesus Christ in Heaven because he said he was not always a good Christian. ( He is there by the way in spirit to this day as promised by the Lord, but it does not look good for him to be of the firstfruits of the resurrection, but time will tell.

Anyway, as much as Billy Graham had tried to reject the credit given to him for "leading so many to the Lord", he is really nothing just like Paul. Billy Graham did not do anything and yet by that altar call to gain he assurance of salvation, by his commitment to follow Christ, Billy Graham doubted his salvation. So Billy meant what he had said about that commitment to follow Christ and he sought justification by trying to keep it.

But again Promise Keepers are trying to do His work in making themselves good fathers & good husbands and good leaders when they should be trusting Jesus & His promises to them to do that work in them.

The irony is that the spin off from the men's movements of Promise Keepers for the women is called Faith Keepers. That is what the men should have been doing as well.
Before I move on, why would what the Promise Keepers did, not fall within the Category of "Works we were Created for"? IE Post Salvific Works that Saint James wanted to see...

Do you advocate for Antinomianism?
 
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Hark

Well-known member
Before I move on, why would what the Promise Keepers did, not fall within the Category of "Works we were Created for"? IE Post Salvific Works that Saint James wanted to see...
This is why..

Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man...... 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


The world and the religious people will only see a believer making himself good by the deeds of the law of keeping a promise to be a good husband and a good father. They will give the believer the credit & glory for keeping that promise to be a good husband and good father.

They will not give credit to Jesus Christ nor glorify God the Father by Him because the believer did this by keeping his promises. If they do give Him the credit and glory, it is in vain that they worship Him when the credit and glory is also being given to the one that kept his promises.

The wife of the founder of the Promise Keepers' movement had testified at one time that her husband has not been keeping his promises of late.

So ask yourself this question; can Promise Keepers claim these testimonies in these verses below?

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
This is why..

Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man...... 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


The world and the religious people will only see a believer making himself good by the deeds of the law of keeping a promise to be a good husband and a good father. They will give the believer the credit & glory for keeping that promise to be a good husband and good father.

They will not give credit to Jesus Christ nor glorify God the Father by Him because the believer did this by keeping his promises. If they do give Him the credit and glory, it is in vain that they worship Him when the credit and glory is also being given to the one that kept his promises.

The wife of the founder of the Promise Keepers' movement had testified at one time that her husband has not been keeping his promises of late.

So ask yourself this question; can Promise Keepers claim these testimonies in these verses below?

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Thanks; three more things...

Is keeping the Royal Law of Christ of Faith or Works? Is the Weaker brother not Saved if he won't eat food offered to an Idol, when the Stronger brother will? Finally, true religion is to visit Widows and Orphans; is this of Faith or Works?
 
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Hark

Well-known member
Thanks; three more things...
Thanks for sharing with me.
Is keeping the Royal Law of Christ of Faith or Works?
1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Verse 23 is to me the royal law now per the N.T. as the first commandment is paramount for me to trust Him to do His work in me and supply the love I need along with any other fruits of the Spirit to love even my enemies which is the second commandment.

Is the Weaker brother not Saved if he won't eat food offered to an Idol, when the Stronger brother will?
There is no loss of salvation for any believer, but there is a loss of that first inheritance. Think of it as the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living. He can never get it back, but he is still son. So in the same way, those unrepentant saints & former believers that gets left behind are still saved, but missed out on the firstfruits of the resurrection. They will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House as they will serve the king of kings from all over the world in representing Jesus & that City of God on earth.
Finally, true religion is to visit Widows and Orphans; is this of Faith or Works?
Well, when you consider what James said about making plans for tomorrow, then 'what we can do" is providing that God enables us to do.

Sometimes people put off doing good today by planning to do it tomorrow. James warns against procrastination also, I believe, but those who trust the Lord as their Good Shepherd to help them do the right thing.. He will help them to do it by His grace & by His help.

James 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Isn't it against the rules to share any private information? Has there not been trolls in forums? Do not Jesuits sworn an oath to cause chaos in society? Various reasons to not believe everything you read about a poster here.

When they ignore you & your reproofs.. Jesus said this;

Matthew 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

And Paul said this;

2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Since excommunication has been taught by Jesus in Matthew 18:14-17 & Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, then when a church refuses to repent...

Just don't se the point of it since I am no longer attending there.

I am not having them executed. Big difference there, brother.

I am judgmental when it comes to a church refusing to submit to the authority of the Word of God Whom is the Head of every believer and every church.

Not when the leaders refuse to let you help. Not when they debase you for why no one should listen to you. Nobody has listened either.

Why do you rebuke those not affiliated with your church or your belief?

I believe Paul was addressing how believers were dividing themselves per water baptism if you read that in context.

An when believers call themselves a Calvinist.. how is that not the same thing? I am not saying everyone identify themselves as that way or the opposite, but it has been done when identifying with a side in this "debate".
Paul dealt with all kinds of problems but still fellowshipped with immature churches.

If you can't find literally anyone to fellowship and obey hebrews 10:25 with, and you see apostates behind every bush, then the problem might be in the mirror.
 
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