New creations through faith and regeneration

T

TomFL

Guest
2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

Being in Christ makes one a new creation

Being a new creation is the effect of regeneration

DEFINITION OF REGENERATION
The word regeneration (Gk. paliggenesia) appears only twice in the New Testament. Once it is used eschatologically, “of the renewing of the world in the time of the Messiah” (Matt. 19:28),36 the second usage is “of the rebirth of a redeemed person” (Titus 3:5).37 Regeneration should be distinguished from conversion.
Conversion refers to the response of the human being to God’s offer of salvation and approach to man. Regeneration is the other side of conversion. It is God’s doing. In regeneration the soul is passive; in conversion, it is active. Regeneration may be defined as the communication of divine life to the soul … as the impartation of a new nature … or heart … and the production of a new creation.38
Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.
Moody's handbook of theology

One is in Christ when one believes

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him (that is in Christ) you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

So men are in Christ when they believe and made new creations by God's act of regeneration
 
Sketo

Sketo

Well-known member
Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 1 Corinthians 2:12

The “Spirit who is from God” is necessary in order to “understand the things freely given us by God”!

And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13

Remember this verse does NOT say “interpreting spiritual truths to those who are” natural!

Why?

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

Natural man must be regenerated, made spiritual man first, in order to understand and believe the Gospel!

Now what are these "things of the Spirit of God" which people can't grasp without first being made spiritual alive/ regenerated first? The context makes this very clear. Notice the word "folly" or "foolishness" in verse 14. Whatever "the things of the Spirit of God" are, they are folly to the natural man. Chapter 1, verse 18 shows us what this is: "The word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." The same thing in verses 23–24: "We preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

In other words, what the natural man can't understand is the heart of the Christian message—the word of the cross - without first being regenerated!​
Regeneration Necessarily Precedes Faith!
Regeneration Has A Specific Purpose in Salvation!
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Sketo said:
Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 1 Corinthians 2:12

The “Spirit who is from God” is necessary in order to “understand the things freely given us by God”!

And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13

Remember this verse does NOT say “interpreting spiritual truths to those who are” natural!

Why?

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

Natural man must be regenerated, made spiritual man first, in order to understand and believe the Gospel

Now what are these "things of the Spirit of God" which people can't grasp without first being made spiritual alive/ regenerated first? The context makes this very clear. Notice the word "folly" or "foolishness" in verse 14. Whatever "the things of the Spirit of God" are, they are folly to the natural man. Chapter 1, verse 18 shows us what this is: "The word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." The same thing in verses 23–24: "We preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

In other words, what the natural man can't understand is the heart of the Christian message—the word of the cross - without first being regenerated!​
Regeneration Necessarily Precedes Faith!
Regeneration Has A Specific Purpose in Salvation!
Click to expand...
Wrong for the reasons shown regeneration is new life and faith precedes new life

shown by a number of verses previously which you do not address

as well as the current op which you also do not address

Additionally you have misinterpreted 2Cor 2:14

which does not state man is unable to understand or believe the gospel

The passage contrast human knowledge and deeper revelation knowledge which comes from God

The soulish man does not receive this knowledge but that does not mean he cannot understand the explaination of it

from an inspired prophet or apostle

Basically the lost man needs someone to spiritually discern the “deep things of God” for him

What are the means God uses to communicate spiritual truths to mankind?

Is not the bible and epistles such as Paul is writing to the carnal believers in Corinth a means of “spiritual discernment?”

and in Ephesians

Eph. 3:1–5 —KJV
Ҧ For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;”

The bible everywhere presupposes it may be understood

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

2 Tim. 3:15 —KJV
“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
 
Sketo

Sketo

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Additionally you have misinterpreted 2Cor 2:14
Click to expand...
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

Natural person = Unregenerate Person = Spiritually dead man!

TomFL said:
which does not state man is unable to understand or believe the gospel
Click to expand...
what are these "things of the Spirit of God" which people can not grasp without first being made spiritual alive/ regenerated first?
The context makes this very clear. Notice the word "folly" or "foolishness" in verse 14.
Whatever "the things of the Spirit of God" are, they are folly to the natural man.
Chapter 1, verse 18 shows us what this is: "The word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing
TomFL said:
The passage contrast human knowledge and deeper revelation knowledge which comes from God
Click to expand...
No the context is clear that it is not “deeper knowledge”!

And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. - 1 Corinthians 2:1-2


TomFL said:
The soulish man (natural man) does not receive this knowledge but that does not mean he (natural person) cannot understand the explaination of it
Click to expand...
This directly contradicts...

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14
TomFL said:
Basically the lost man needs someone to spiritually discern the “deep things of God” for him
Click to expand...
“deep things of God” is your imposition! It’s not there!

What is there is “word of the cross” or “Christ crucified” like the context clearly states!

For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:18

23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,

24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:23-24

Regeneration is first necessary in order to understand the Preaching of the Cross... in order to believe it!
In that order!​


TomFL said:
What are the means God uses to communicate spiritual truths to mankind?
Click to expand...
Answer: Regeneration! Why?

Because... The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

TomFL said:
Is not the bible and epistles such as Paul is writing to the carnal believers in Corinth a means of “spiritual discernment?”
Click to expand...
Not to a natural person!


And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13

Remember this verse does NOT say “interpreting spiritual truths to those who are” natural!

Why?

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

TomFL said:
and in Ephesians

Eph. 3:1–5 —KJV
Ҧ For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;”

The bible everywhere presupposes it may be understood
Click to expand...
NOT by natural person! Your “presupposition” is in direct contradiction to...

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

“The things of the Spirit of God” =
“The word of the cross” - 1Cor 1:18
“Christ crucified” - 1Cor 1:23
“Jesus Christ and him Crucified” - 1 Cor 2:2

TomFL said:
John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
2 Tim. 3:15 —KJV
“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
Click to expand...
If you assume this is an ability of natural, unregenerate, persons then your assumption is in direct contradiction to 1 Cor 2:14 above!
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Sketo said:
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

Natural person = Unregenerate Person = Spiritually dead man!
Click to expand...

You do understand it is talking about the deeper things of God which are revealed by the spirit

This does not concern the gospel

which is written with the presumption of being understandable

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

Rom. 10:17 —ESV
“So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.”

2 Tim. 3:15 —ESV
“and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.”

Is. 55:11 —ESV
“so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.”

Rom. 1:16 —ESV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.”


Sketo said:
what are these "things of the Spirit of God" which people can not grasp without first being made spiritual alive/ regenerated first?
The context makes this very clear. Notice the word "folly" or "foolishness" in verse 14.
Whatever "the things of the Spirit of God" are, they are folly to the natural man.
Chapter 1, verse 18 shows us what this is: "The word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing
Click to expand...
This refers to those who rejecting the gospel as foolishness and are thus perishing

It does not state all regard the gospel as foolishness

If no one could understand the gospel how is this possible

1 Cor. 1:21 —ESV
“For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.”

or this this

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

Again, this text never suggests that mankind is born unable to respond to God’s clearly discerned gospel appeal. It only affirms that the mystery of the gospel must be discerned for us, which it has been. As Paul states, “When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.” Eph. 3:4
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
TomFL said:
You do understand it is talking about the deeper things of God which are revealed by the spirit
Click to expand...

Sorry, it doesn't say "deeper things".
But I understand your need to ADD to Scripture to twist it to try to make it fit your false theology.

So you're saying that the gospel is NOT "revealed by the Spirit"?!
SERIOUSLY?!
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
TomFL said:
2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

Being in Christ makes one a new creation

Being a new creation is the effect of regeneration

DEFINITION OF REGENERATION
The word regeneration (Gk. paliggenesia) appears only twice in the New Testament. Once it is used eschatologically, “of the renewing of the world in the time of the Messiah” (Matt. 19:28),36 the second usage is “of the rebirth of a redeemed person” (Titus 3:5).37 Regeneration should be distinguished from conversion.
Conversion refers to the response of the human being to God’s offer of salvation and approach to man. Regeneration is the other side of conversion. It is God’s doing. In regeneration the soul is passive; in conversion, it is active. Regeneration may be defined as the communication of divine life to the soul … as the impartation of a new nature … or heart … and the production of a new creation.38
Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.
Moody's handbook of theology

One is in Christ when one believes

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him (that is in Christ) you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

So men are in Christ when they believe and made new creations by God's act of regeneration
Click to expand...
A new creation and regeneration are the same. Both are the effect of Christs resurrection from the dead 1 Pet 1:3
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sketo said:
Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 1 Corinthians 2:12

The “Spirit who is from God” is necessary in order to “understand the things freely given us by God”!

And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13

Remember this verse does NOT say “interpreting spiritual truths to those who are” natural!

Why?

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

Natural man must be regenerated, made spiritual man first, in order to understand and believe the Gospel!

Now what are these "things of the Spirit of God" which people can't grasp without first being made spiritual alive/ regenerated first? The context makes this very clear. Notice the word "folly" or "foolishness" in verse 14. Whatever "the things of the Spirit of God" are, they are folly to the natural man. Chapter 1, verse 18 shows us what this is: "The word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." The same thing in verses 23–24: "We preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

In other words, what the natural man can't understand is the heart of the Christian message—the word of the cross - without first being regenerated!​
Regeneration Necessarily Precedes Faith!
Regeneration Has A Specific Purpose in Salvation!
Click to expand...
Excellent ! I would add that the things that are spiritual that the natural man does not and cannot receive is the preaching of Christ crucified, the testimony of God ,and what all that entails. Paul started the chapter by saying 1 Cor 2:1,2

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
Sorry, it doesn't say "deeper things".
But I understand your need to ADD to Scripture to twist it to try to make it fit your false theology.

So you're saying that the gospel is NOT "revealed by the Spirit"?!
SERIOUSLY?!
Click to expand...
Right. And the deeper things are related to the Gospel anyway. When the teacher of the Gospel goes into things like election, predestination, the work of the trinity in salvation, sovereign grace, exactly who Christ is, what He accomplished, for whom He accomplished it and why. The Gospel is a Mystery Eph 6 19

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
 
Thistle

Thistle

Well-known member
TomFL said:
2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

Being in Christ makes one a new creation

Being a new creation is the effect of regeneration

DEFINITION OF REGENERATION
The word regeneration (Gk. paliggenesia) appears only twice in the New Testament. Once it is used eschatologically, “of the renewing of the world in the time of the Messiah” (Matt. 19:28),36 the second usage is “of the rebirth of a redeemed person” (Titus 3:5).37 Regeneration should be distinguished from conversion.
Conversion refers to the response of the human being to God’s offer of salvation and approach to man. Regeneration is the other side of conversion. It is God’s doing. In regeneration the soul is passive; in conversion, it is active. Regeneration may be defined as the communication of divine life to the soul … as the impartation of a new nature … or heart … and the production of a new creation.38
Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.
Moody's handbook of theology

One is in Christ when one believes

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him (that is in Christ) you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

So men are in Christ when they believe and made new creations by God's act of regeneration
Click to expand...
Ephesians 1:13 employs a synecdoche where "sealed with the promised Holy Spirit" includes the idea of baptism as is made more clear in your citation of Titus 3:5 above.
 
Sketo

Sketo

Well-known member
TomFL said:
1 Cor. 1:21 —ESV
“For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.”
Click to expand...
I think it’s funny that you quote the very verse where Paul himself calls his own message “folly” and try to use it to prove the opposite of what Paul says!
 
T

TomFL

Guest
brightfame52 said:
A new creation and regeneration are the same. Both are the effect of Christs resurrection from the dead 1 Pet 1:3
Click to expand...
yes they but it is the effect of being in Christ

and one is in Christ through faith

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
TomFL said:
yes they but it is the effect of being in Christ

and one is in Christ through faith

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
Click to expand...

Your misinterpretation of this verse has been rebutted.

"You need to ACCEPT CORRECTION!" bwahahahahahah! ;)
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
TomFL said:
yes they but it is the effect of being in Christ

and one is in Christ through faith

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
Click to expand...
All believers were in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4
 
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