Next? Slapping fines on the unvaccinated

vibise

Well-known member
Facts dont care about your feelings however unjust you feel reality is. If the man and woman consent to sex then conception may even occur when contraception fails.
Responsibility is responsibilty.
You do not explicitly acknowledge that the man has equal responsibility for any child that results.
 

vibise

Well-known member
Why a high level....any level should do since natural antibodies are far superior to your vaccine....and there are many vaccinated that never produce antibodies. Have you been tested? You may have none.

BTW, even people that recovered from covid that may have no detectable antibodies are still protected because of B and T cells.
No. Antibodies are antibodies, and there is no distinguishing "natural" from vaccine induced. Any foreign entity introduced into the body will elicit an antibody response, whether it is introduced by infection or injection. The antibodies produced are ALL natural.

Not all people exposed to an antigen produce a response, and that can be the case for infected or inoculated people.
 

vibise

Well-known member
Except they can....remember when your side screeched about 'super spreader events'?


Trivial because they are useless.
I do not think we do as much as we could in contact tracing, but it is sometimes clear when individuals at the same event simultaneously come down with covid.
 

inertia

Super Member
So are you for or against

I don't like the approach. It "feels" draconian, parallel to the concept of a draft during war. On the other hand, sometimes a draft is the only way to win. The pandemic is a biological war where the enemy and weapons are unconventional.

It's better to positively influence, pay for advertising, and maybe specialized tax incentives may work better.

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4Him

Administrator
Staff member
No. Antibodies are antibodies, and there is no distinguishing "natural" from vaccine induced.

Except there is, since natural antibodies are far superior and longer lasting than vaccine antibodies.
Any foreign entity introduced into the body will elicit an antibody response, whether it is introduced by infection or injection. The antibodies produced are ALL natural.

If you have to inject poison into your body, it is anything but natural....hence the reason they don't last.
Not all people exposed to an antigen produce a response, and that can be the case for infected or inoculated people.

So did you get tested to see if you produced antibodies? I did.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
I do not think we do as much as we could in contact tracing, but it is sometimes clear when individuals at the same event simultaneously come down with covid.

Except the screeching your side did was hair on fire nonsense....all about the super spreader events that turned out to not be super spreader events.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
I don't like the approach. It "feels" draconian, parallel to the concept of a draft during war. On the other hand, sometimes a draft is the only way to win. The pandemic is a biological war where the enemy and weapons are unconventional.

Maybe they should actually treat people who are infected instead of sending them home and telling them to go to the hospital if they can't breathe. That is how this is won....and would have been over long ago if that's what they had done instead of denying meds that work in order to push a vaccine that doesn't.
 

BMS

Well-known member
No. Vaccines have been mandated for decades if not centuries.
Each of us has a responsibility not to hurt others, and vaccines are one way to do that.
If each of us has a responsibility not to hurt others then you wouldnt be supporting pro-choice abortion, so stop telling others what you think hurt is and mind your own business.
Vaccines have not been around as long as human reproduction so dont learch from one stupiditity to another.
 

BMS

Well-known member
You do not explicitly acknowledge that the man has equal responsibility for any child that results.
Facts dont care about whether you acknowledge them. The man inherently has equal responsibility. The wonan has the pregnancy. The imaginary transwonan cant because he is a man. Reality v woke.
 

DeSanto

Super Member
What religion opposes vaccination?
I think religious exemptions from vaccination are bogus and should be disallowed.
Requesting a religious exemption only legitimizes their authority over your body.

Some are claiming this exemption based on the fact that some of these vaccines have been tested on 293T cells, which were derived from an aborted fetus, but these cells are used on a long list of widely used medications including tylenol, preparation H, etc., and these people take those drugs without objection.
This has been going on without people’s knowledge. I still don’t think most people are aware of just how much they consume is produced in this manner. It’s not like warning labels are placed on products:

“No humans were harmed in the production of this product”

Maybe they should!

Most people don’t do extensive research on each and every product they consume.

Maybe they should!

Most people would never even imagine such a thing could be or would be allowed. There is really no reason to allow such a thing in the first place!
 

inertia

Super Member
Maybe they should actually treat people who are infected instead of sending them home and telling them to go to the hospital if they can't breathe. That is this is won....and would have been over long ago if that's what they had done instead of denying meds that work in order to push a vaccine that doesn't.

Taking a military perspective

Treating the wounded (infected) is a necessary part of warfare, but by itself, it will never provide a strategic advantage because the tactic is localized and purely defensive. Still, treatment has to work if the goal is to win. To win - a strategic and aggressive advantage is required against the enemy (COVID-19), especially when the enemy already has an advantage. Anticipating the enemy's next move is critical. Historically, vaccination strategy mitigates the enemy's expected aggression while minimizing wounded people and simultaneously reducing its effectiveness in its next attack.

_______________________

- From the provided link:

1805
First Compulsory Vaccination Attempted

Marianne Elisa of Lucca (Napoleon’s sister) became the first ruler to try making vaccination compulsory. She was unable, however, to determine a practical method of enforcement.

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4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Taking a military perspective

Treating the wounded (infected) is a necessary part of warfare, but by itself, it will never provide a strategic advantage because the tactic is localized and purely defensive. Still, treatment has to work if the goal is to win. To win - a strategic and aggressive advantage is required against the enemy (COVID-19), especially when the enemy already has an advantage. Anticipating the enemy's next move is critical. Historically, vaccination strategy mitigates the enemy's expected aggression while minimizing wounded people and simultaneously reducing its effectiveness in its next attack.

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Reread what I said. TREAT the sick. That’s how this would have been won had they not demonized drugs that work….and they did so because if there’s a treatment they couldn’t EUA a vaccine. A vaccine that is a failure. It’s all about $$$ that would never have been made with cheap effective drugs that have been around for ages.
Anyone that thinks this is about their health, or that the government cares about them is deluded.
 

Carol

Well-known member
Actually, I find it distasteful and the concept of fining on healthcare issues rubs me the wrong way.

Yet you liked what michael posted about fines...

That said, the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of fines in history.

Their reasoning is a good argument against my personal preferences here. ( got Golden Rule? )

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Do unto others as government would have you do?
 

inertia

Super Member
Reread what I said. TREAT the sick. That’s how this would have been won had they not demonized drugs that work….and they did so because if there’s a treatment they couldn’t EUA a vaccine. A vaccine that is a failure. It’s all about $$$ that would never have been made with cheap effective drugs that have been around for ages.
Anyone that thinks this is about their health, or that the government cares about them is deluded.

Yet, many so-called treatments did not work. This is real. "People have been seriously harmed and even died after taking products not approved for COVID-19, even products approved or prescribed for other uses".*
The EUA method will probably be necessary for every surprise attack. Imposing fines are a draconian response, in my opinion.

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* Quote reference: CDC
 
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inertia

Super Member
Yet you liked what michael posted about fines...

I finally found his post.

Yes, it ultimately may be the best way even though I find it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. ( terrible tasting medicine )

The draft during a war also is an unlikeable way to win, but it can also be necessary.

Do unto others as government would have you do?

Romans 13:1-7

“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”
 
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4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Yet, many so-called treatments did not work.
Yes they did.
This is real. "People have been seriously harmed and even died after taking products not approved for COVID-19, even products approved or prescribed for other uses".*

No they haven’t.
The EUA method will probably be necessary for every surprise attack. Imposing fines is a draconian response, in my opinion.

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* Quote reference: CDC
So you quote a 3 letter agency making $$$ from vaccines. That you quote them to prove cheap, effective, safe drugs don’t work is laughable. Lol.
 

vibise

Well-known member
Except there is, since natural antibodies are far superior and longer lasting than vaccine antibodies.


If you have to inject poison into your body, it is anything but natural....hence the reason they don't last.


So did you get tested to see if you produced antibodies? I did.
Please identify an immunology textbook that says this, and peer-reviewed studies dealing with immunology.

The purpose of the immune system is to distinguish "self" from "non-self". Period. How the foreign antigen got into the body is not relevant.
An argument could be made that a wider range of antibodies could be generated against a whole virus vs a single viral protein, but I would like to see studies showing that infection results in superior and longer lasting protection.
 

Carol

Well-known member
I finally found his post.

Yes, it ultimately may be the best way even though I find it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. ( terrible tasting medicine )

The draft during a war also is an unlikeable way to win, but it can also be necessary.

And you think you're north of center?

Romans 13:1-7

“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

This isn't the golden rule, Paul isn't the Lord and the U.S. isn't supposed to be an empire.
 

inertia

Super Member
Yes they did.
incorrect
No they haven’t.

Yet, they still did.

So you quote a 3 letter agency making $$$ from vaccines. That you quote them to prove cheap, effective, safe drugs don’t work is laughable. Lol.

Since I am a capitalist, living in a capitalist society, so I don't have any issues with making a profit.

Yet, "Of more than 390 million doses of COVID-19 shots administered in the U.S. up to Sept. 27, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who were vaccinated." Reality
 
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